So some concerns I’m having...

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Dakich still defends wanting Alford. He’s a friend of his. A former Hoosier. Of course he wanted him.


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Dakich: “I know what’s best for Indiana and they’re messing it all up!”
Also Dakich: “Perennial choke job Steve Alford, who can’t win with some of the most talented teams in the country, is our solution!”




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[RatpigHoosier 1,022]

Saw an article that said “Archie’s teams at Dayton would have eaten this team for lunch, and then come back for another meal two hours later....Archie built a team and turned them into something mean. Something ferocious. The Hoosiers have a better roster than Dayton ever had but they’re not mean. They’re not ferocious.”
I think this is spot on. I think Archie is trying to turn this roster he inherited into the mean ferocious basketball players he wants, and they aren’t responding. Most of them don’t want to have to do it. They aren’t playing with any fight at all and that’s not on Archie at all. Them being soft and scared is the LAST thing Archie would want in a basketball team. Only the players themselves can dictate their own effort and toughness on the floor, and unfortunately for Archie, I think they have given up and don’t want to buy what Archie is selling anymore. 
I completely understand the injury issues and lack of players, but that doesn’t excuse the poor effort and lack of toughness displayed by the players who ARE on the court. Also, I do realize that there are some of Archie’s guys on this team that don’t really exude the mean, ferociousness either..  It’s not my place to speculate, but I can see next years roster looking way different. I think at this point I’m wondering what type of news as gonna break about different things at seasons end that make you go “Ah, so that’s what was going on.”..and shed some light onto having an idea of what next year is actually going to look like.  As far as this year, I’ll continue to root them on and hope for the best. 

Great post.

My question is when and how does a coach assert himself in this situation? The Crean players are soft, in general. I don’t think Juwan is at all, he’s just not the vocal type. You mentioned that some of Miller’s players are soft, too. I agree with that.

So it’s a matter of assimilation. Either Crean’s players are going to assimilate to Archie’s personality or Archie’s players are going to assimilate to Crean’s players’ personalities. It seems evident to me that the latter is the case here.

So my question again is how does Archie overcome this? He clearly is trying to implement accountability at least for off-court issues, with Green’s suspension as the example. So how does he get to a level of accountability for on-court performance?

I remember back in the day that was done with benching, which Archie seems loathe to do, either because he is coddling his starters or he doesn’t trust his bench players. Double-edged sword. If you get the reputation of being too hard-nosed of a coach you might lose future recruits.

I think what he needs is a few more of his players in to rotate Crean’s players out, coupled with next years players saying “we’re not going through what we went through last year again”. Maybe that’s how the culture shift starts to take place. But I’m no sports psychologist.


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[IUrocker 2,159]

56 minutes ago, RatpigHoosier said:

Great post.

My question is when and how does a coach assert himself in this situation? The Crean players are soft, in general. I don’t think Juwan is at all, he’s just not the vocal type. You mentioned that some of Miller’s players are soft, too. I agree with that.

So it’s a matter of assimilation. Either Crean’s players are going to assimilate to Archie’s personality or Archie’s players are going to assimilate to Crean’s players’ personalities. It seems evident to me that the latter is the case here.

So my question again is how does Archie overcome this? He clearly is trying to implement accountability at least for off-court issues, with Green’s suspension as the example. So how does he get to a level of accountability for on-court performance?

I remember back in the day that was done with benching, which Archie seems loathe to do, either because he is coddling his starters or he doesn’t trust his bench players. Double-edged sword. If you get the reputation of being too hard-nosed of a coach you might lose future recruits.

I think what he needs is a few more of his players in to rotate Crean’s players out, coupled with next years players saying “we’re not going through what we went through last year again”. Maybe that’s how the culture shift starts to take place. But I’m no sports psychologist.


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Yep, in my opinion, your last paragraph states how I think it should be, and WILL be. I can see some changes happening next year with the roster and it’ll turn into most of the roster being Archie’s players. The remaining players who will happen to still be here who believe in what he’s doing, coupled with the incoming players we have coming in will be able to get the culture shift started. I’m sure whatever internal issues may be going on, Archie will be the guy who says enough is enough and rid of anyone who may be a problem to the chemistry of the team...or who knows, there could be some guys who willingly want to be gone and not have to play for Archie and his style anymore.

Also, I like your point about the possibility of Archie’s players assimilating to Crean’s players’ personalities. If this team was already built of all Archie players, I think we would see more toughness from this year’s freshman because it’s what they would have walked into and had to be. I can see it being that way than the other, because it’s a lot more likely that Crean’s players don’t want to have to take on the toughness Archie wants out of them. They signed up to come to IU with Crean to not have to be that way at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

[HoosierAloha 30,041]

Every office, unit, group, etc. has a hierarchy, unfortunately Crean’s players are at the top of the hierarchy because of age and time at IU. Morgan seems to be willing to wrk hard but I don’t see him willing to be a vocal leader. Juwan seems to be doing Juwan and that’s great but doesn’t help the younger guys. Smith seems to be doing Smith, Romeo doing Romeo, etc.

The point in which this will turn is when someone says “no more”, and holds others accountable. When has someone gotten on a teammate for missing a rotation? When has someone gotten on a teammate for throwing it into the 5th row or taking a bad shot? They don’t. It’s either for a lack of confidence in the system or their own game.

If next season the team is led by Phin and Al with other older players jumping on board or leaving the team then it’ll start to change. We could have a very talented team with Smith, Phin, Anderson, Forrester, Thompson, Hunter, Franklin, Jackson-Davis, and Brooks all being top 150 recruits but if they’re not being led we’ll see more of the passionless basketball we’ve seen this season.


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[DChoosier 8,072]

“Crean players” are spoken about as if they are a disease and are sometimes being thrown in the same bucket.

Do I think Morgan (he who has improved throughout his career and battled painful shoulder injuries) is soft? Soft, no. Quiet yes.

Do I think McBob is soft? Soft, no. Limited talent, yes.

Do I think Al is soft (has worked on his game and seems to really care)? Soft, no. Quiet, yes.

Race-To be determined

Davis-Injuries have had an unfortunate impact on his career.

Others-no comment.

Archie players are half the scholarship roster. Who are the Archie “bulldogs”among Fitzner, Romeo, Hunter, Anderson, Rob and Jake? I’d say yes to Rob (but quiet, like Al, at this point in his career)  but the others are “to be determined” or no.  Hopefully the ratio will pick up with the 2019 class.

[HoosierAloha 30,041]

“Crean players” are spoken about as if they are a disease and are sometimes being thrown in the same bucket.
Do I think Morgan (he who has improved throughout his career and battled painful shoulder injuries) is soft? Soft, no. Quiet yes.
Do I think McBob is soft? Soft, no. Limited talent, yes.
Do I think Al is soft (has worked on his game and seems to really care)? Soft, no. Quiet, yes.
Race-To be determined
Davis-Injuries have had an unfortunate impact on his career.
Others-no comment.
Archie players are half the scholarship roster. Who are the Archie “bulldogs”among Fitzner, Romeo, Hunter, Anderson, Rob and Jake? I’d say yes to Rob (but quiet, like Al, at this point in his career)  but the others are “to be determined” or no.  Hopefully the ratio will pick up with the 2019 class.

I think part of it, as stated above, are quiet due to age and time in the program. If Rob is a junior and still just following he’s not the leader I think he can and should be. I love seeing Al showing some emotion and trying to pump up his teammates. He needs to do more of this. I’d love to see a Yogi/Bryant moment. It would at least show they cared.


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[LamarCheeks 18,315]

I'm guessing this would have an effect for all of 5 minutes, and maybe Archie has done it, but I wonder if he's ever had someone like Quin Buckner come in and speak to the team. Quin's a trustee, so he's never very far away. He obviously played on the last unbeaten NC and played and coached in the NBA and broadcasted for years. I would love for him to go into the locker room, and not necessarily berate the guys, but explain to them what IU basketball is all about and tell them how at times, they're disrespecting themselves, their team, their university and all the great players who've worn that uniform with the way they play.

I know we're lacking in some talent and have been devastated by injuries, but there's still no excuse for the all-too-often lack of effort. Even Romeo -- last game, he either got stripped or his shot blocked (can't remember exactly) and instead of hustling back on defense, he stood there with his arms in the air wanting a foul. Smith has had several instances in which he's made mistakes, then pouts instead of hustling back and perhaps helping to prevent an easy fast-break bucket. I would love for Quin to tell them back in his day, if he or a teammate did that, they'd run till they vomit. And then run some more.

[Stuhoo 79,881]

18 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

This team seems to have already mailed it in and is ready for the season to be over. Next year isn’t looking any better. Same red flags as Crean basically. Can’t adjust to a roster. Can’t get the most out of the players. In Creans case he couldn’t coach defense. In Archie’s case he can’t coach offense. We are screwed.


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[Chris007 43,625]

24 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

This team seems to have already mailed it in and is ready for the season to be over. Next year isn’t looking any better. Same red flags as Crean basically. Can’t adjust to a roster. Can’t get the most out of the players. In Creans case he couldn’t coach defense. In Archie’s case he can’t coach offense. We are screwed.


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Please tell me you have quit watching. 

[HoosierAloha 30,041]

2 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Please tell me you have quit watching. 

I'll give you a hint; it starts with N and ends with ot a chance.  He'll say he has quit watching but will be back 5 minutes later to post why the kid from the HPER, who once saw a friend watch a basketball, should get minutes on this team.

[Stuhoo 79,881]

1 minute ago, Joe DeLow said:

No I haven’t quit. I can say it, but it’s an addiction at this point in life.


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PLEASE!!

[Chris007 43,625]

1 minute ago, Joe DeLow said:

No I haven’t quit. I can say it, but it’s an addiction at this point in life.


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Like a trainwreck you can't look away?

[Bailey7878 2,506]

This team seems to have already mailed it in and is ready for the season to be over. Next year isn’t looking any better. Same red flags as Crean basically. Can’t adjust to a roster. Can’t get the most out of the players. In Creans case he couldn’t coach defense. In Archie’s case he can’t coach offense. We are screwed.


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Hey didnt you hear surfer fred say this is a major rebuild. I think fred is looking to give archie that three year honeymoon as well.

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[Rico 2,991]

1 hour ago, Chris007 said:

Like a trainwreck you can't look away?

"Rubbernecker"

[yogisballin 2,304]

A 3 is a wing/perimeter player, so yes if you want to be effective it helps a great deal to be able to handle the ball and shoot the ball. It's the entire positionless basketball theory of having skilled guys at every position that can shoot, handle and distribute. Right now Justin Smith is poor at all of those things. Teams literally do not defend him whatsoever when he's on the perimeter and it's part of what is killing the offense. He currently is not a 3, or at least not a good or effective one. 
Again, the change I'm proposing, while slight, is a change offensively. It's putting Morgan at the 4 instead of the 5, it gets more skill on the court together (right now Smith is our most unskilled offensive player), while not sacrificing defense. It's also utilizing Green on the wing, instead of the point, when he comes back. He's mistake prone, frustrating and takes bad shots for sure, but let him play a role where he can focus on hitting shots and not thinking about distributing. 
I'm not sure what you mean with McRoberts? I'm not advocating for him to play more, I'm advocating to put our skilled guys (Phinisee, Langford, Durham, Green off the ball, and Morgan) in the game together so they can be more effective. 
It also doesn't hurt the defense to have our best defenders, Phinisee, Green/Durham and Langford, in more together, while you also keep Morgan from defending the big 5's because he's at the 4 spot. 
Again, it's a very slight change, but getting Morgan at the 4 could have an impact, but I don't see how it works effectively with Smith clogging things up on the perimeter. 

I seriously think we should go with

Al/Rob
Romeo
Damezi/Al
Morgan
Moore

But I know we’ll never probably get that. Archie lovefest for Smith. And seems he doesn’t like playing Moore. But what do I know. I’m just some red neck living in the sticks in Ky



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[MoyeNeeded 3,073]

5 hours ago, Bailey7878 said:

Hey didnt you hear surfer fred say this is a major rebuild. I think fred is looking to give archie that three year honeymoon as well.

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What? CAM deserves at least 3 yrs. Anyone who does not believe a coach coming into a new position, barring a program destroying violation, should be given a fair opportunity is absolutely clueless, and shouldn't be allowed to post. I hope that you can't seriously believe that 3yrs is a too much?

[wirenuts 1,055]

1 hour ago, MoyeNeeded said:

What? CAM deserves at least 3 yrs. Anyone who does not believe a coach coming into a new position, barring a program destroying violation, should be given a fair opportunity is absolutely clueless, and shouldn't be allowed to post. I hope that you can't seriously believe that 3yrs is a too much?

Along with that reasoning, what coach in their right mind would take a job that wouldnt give them at least three years to implement a system, find the Right recruits for that system and start seeing results? 

[HinnyHoosier 4,810]

Somebody change the thread title to “Group Therapy”.

Yeesh.


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[Rico 2,991]

6 hours ago, wirenuts said:

Along with that reasoning, what coach in their right mind would take a job that wouldnt give them at least three years to implement a system, find the Right recruits for that system and start seeing results? 

Ummmm.........Billy Clyde?

[yogisballin 2,304]

Like a trainwreck you can't look away?

Yeah kinda like that. I will say though, I have turned the last 5 games or so off early bc I just couldn’t do it anymore. I used to be, watch everything I could see (handshakes) included win or lose, listen to the postgame on radio, wait for the postgame on YouTube, and then go back and watch the game on TV again. Heck, I did this in the early FCTC seasons as well(sad, I know). I really want to get back to that, and not to beat the dead horse but this is extremely hard to watch.


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