Evan Fitzner to IU

[Hollywood Mike Miranda]

11 hours ago, AZ Hoosier said:

It is very likely that De'Ron Davis will be somewhat insignificant this year, given his injury and the recovery. "IF HE RECOVERS FULLY" is a big 'IF'. I hope it does, but with serious talk of a redshirt season, Archie did what he needed to do to fill the position for the coming season.

Had something been reported regarding the redshirt for Davis or is this just an  "opinion as fact" post?

[biteoftheapple]

Its an opinion as fact....but based on the injury.

 

 

[yogisballin]

A few thoughts on the addition of Fitzer... all of which are simply my opinion...
"He’s looking for an opportunity to showcase what he does. Obviously not just as an individual, but he’s a very team oriented guy.”  -Fitzner's dad
"He wants to go out and have an even playing field so that he can go out and earn his spot on the team.”  - Fitzner's dad
"He wants to get back to the NCAA tournament" -Fitzner's dad
"We wanted him back... He will enhance their program" - St. Mary's Coach Randy Bennett
I really like all of the above quotes and I think they pretty much explain what kind of player we're getting. I'll admit, the 5 PPG kinda puzzled me first as to why Archie would pursue him, but then you read these quotes and you start to understand. Notice there wasn't as much focus on "wants to become a more focal part of the offense" or "wants more playing time". Instead, you see him talking about the TEAM. About how he wants to work hard and EARN his spot. He talks about wanting to WIN and making the tournament. His old coach (who is pretty successful in his own right... look up his record) didn't want him to leave and believes he'll "enhance" our program. Those are promising sentiments you don't hear too often from transfers.
Will he have a higher statistical impact than what he had at St. Mary's? I would doubt it. (I'm not even sure he'll match it.) Do we need him to produce more than that? Not really. What we could use is senior leadership to help bring along the five freshmen and three sophomores. What we could use is a guy who can knock down an open shot and be an offensive threat when on the floor. Check and check. If this team reaches its potential, it will have to have good team chemistry. While the talent on the roster has been upgraded in the off-season, we're still not talented enough to "out-talent" most other teams. They'll need to play well together. It sounds like Fitzner can help with that.
Am I worried that this may mean Morgan is leaving? No. I think there's a better chance of another transfer before Morgan would leave.
Am I worried that Fitzer is Priller 2.0? No. By all accounts, Priller was a good guy. But his on-court effectiveness made Richard Mandeville and Robbie Eggers look like All-Americans. Could Fitzer be Eggers 2.0? Possibly, but remember that Robbie Eggers never missed the NCAA Tournament.
If Fitzer isn't effective, it isn't much of a loss. He only occupies the scholarship for one season. There are only two ways that this was a bad addition. #1) Fitzer is a detriment to team chemistry (seems unlikely) or #2) there was a more effective graduate transfer out there that specifically wanted to fill this role.

Oh my goodness! I remember my dad going crazy (and not in a good way) when Mandeville and Eggers were in the game. I honest to goodness forgot all about Robbie Eggers lol. I know this is off topic but if I remember correctly, wasn’t Mandeville pretty highly sought after?


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[MikeRoberts]

I just don't see how Davis fits into too many systems in 2018. The game is changing. You need five guys on the court that are skilled, athletic players that can space the floor and attack the rim. Gone are the days, for the most part, where you ride a slow, plodding, below the rim center and slow the game down to pound it inside. That's just not how basketball is played anymore. Defensively bigs in 2018 need to be able to switch onto guards, defend the pick and pop, hedge/recover, etc. That requires a certain level of athleticism. 
I hate to be negative on Davis. He seems like a great kid and a kid that values playing for IU, but the game has passed his body type by. Maybe he could work in a system like Syracuse where they play zone and it would be more difficult to expose him on defense? 

Purdue and others have done well with guys like Davis. The game is whatever a coach and team want to play, it’s not like there is a one sized fits all that everyone has to mold into.

I agree he doesn’t fit well in Archie’s system but put him on Purdue or Northwestern etc and he becomes a problem for a team like IU


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[CSP]

2 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Purdue and others have done well with guys like Davis. The game is whatever a coach and team want to play, it’s not like there is a one sized fits all that everyone has to mold into.

I agree he doesn’t fit well in Archie’s system but put him on Purdue or Northwestern etc and he becomes a problem for a team like IU


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He still have to guard someone. Scheme wise that's irrelevant from the offensive end to the defensive. He can't guard Morgan.. he'd struggle with Smith. Fitzner would stretch him out too much 

[HoosierAloha]

He still have to guard someone. Scheme wise that's irrelevant from the offensive end to the defensive. He can't guard Morgan.. he'd struggle with Smith. Fitzner would stretch him out too much 

And they would have to guard him too. Would any of them be able to stop him? He might not be able to guard those players but you could sag him off of McRoberts to clog the lane. Heck, you could sag him off Morgan or Smith and help from the side. There are ways to scheme it. In Archie's system it doesn't work.


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[Bailey7878]

Oh my goodness! I remember my dad going crazy (and not in a good way) when Mandeville and Eggers were in the game. I honest to goodness forgot all about Robbie Eggers lol. I know this is off topic but if I remember correctly, wasn’t Mandeville pretty highly sought after?


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Yes Mandeville made like top 20 at nike camp and ended up being a bust. Eggers was just awful.

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[MikeRoberts]

He still have to guard someone. Scheme wise that's irrelevant from the offensive end to the defensive. He can't guard Morgan.. he'd struggle with Smith. Fitzner would stretch him out too much 

in a lineup where we roll out Morgan and Smith as our 4 and 5 we will get eaten alive by a good post player like haas, biggie, Davis etc as there isn’t anyone that can defend the post

All about the scheme and how you hide deficiencies, not Team is going to have everything covered


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[CSP]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

And they would have to guard him too. Would any of them be able to stop him? He might not be able to guard those players but you could sag him off of McRoberts to clog the lane. Heck, you could sag him off Morgan or Smith and help from the side. There are ways to scheme it. In Archie's system it doesn't work.


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 They would guard him significantly better then he could guard them. 

[CSP]

54 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

in a lineup where we roll out Morgan and Smith as our 4 and 5 we will get eaten alive by a good post player like haas, biggie, Davis etc as there isn’t anyone that can defend the post

All about the scheme and how you hide deficiencies, not Team is going to have everything covered


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 Davis is not comparable to those two. I'm honestly not worried at all about defending the lost with Smith and Morgan starting. A lot more worried about devonte. 

[BGleas]

57 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

in a lineup where we roll out Morgan and Smith as our 4 and 5 we will get eaten alive by a good post player like haas, biggie, Davis etc as there isn’t anyone that can defend the post

All about the scheme and how you hide deficiencies, not Team is going to have everything covered


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Yes, there are outlier teams that still play traditional bigs, but they’re much less common. I’m watching the NBA playoffs and I’m not sure there’s a single traditional, post-up big on any team still playing. 

Look at the Final Four, I think Kansas was the only team with a traditional big and Villanova exploited the heck out him with Spellman playing the perimeter bombing threes. Kansas’ big couldn’t get out on him and Spellman exploited it so much  

I don’t think Davis, even pre-injury, is good enough to warrant Archie changing the system. Davis and Morgan also just aren’t a good match, unless Morgan can significantly increase his 3-pt percentage. Morgan is best when operating in the paint, and having Davis there clogs everything for him. 

[MikeRoberts]

Yes, there are outlier teams that still play traditional bigs, but they’re much less common. I’m watching the NBA playoffs and I’m not sure there’s a single traditional, post-up big on any team still playing. 
Look at the Final Four, I think Kansas was the only team with a traditional big and Villanova exploited the heck out him with Spellman playing the perimeter bombing threes. Kansas’ big couldn’t get out on him and Spellman exploited it so much  
I don’t think Davis, even pre-injury, is good enough to warrant Archie changing the system. Davis and Morgan also just aren’t a good match, unless Morgan can significantly increase his 3-pt percentage. Morgan is best when operating in the paint, and having Davis there clogs everything for him. 

It was just a year ago we watched two monsters hold down the middle in the championship game karnowski vs meeks. Those guys created fits for teams that did not have a big that could defend them and their coaches were smart enough to know how to use them properly

All about schemes and players understanding their roles. these types of players are still relevant and impactful in the game, more so college but that is what we are talking about


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[HoosierAloha]

 They would guard him significantly better then he could guard them. 

None of those guys are going to stop him 1v1. Bring a double and he can kick it to a shooter. You can sag off on ball screens and help from weakside with Davis as your big. It's not perfect but it can work, especially if you have a wing like McRoberts that Davis could defend.

I agree that the game has moved away from a traditional plodding, back to the basket, big. However, if Morgan is our primary 5 for the entire season we'll struggle.


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[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

None of those guys are going to stop him 1v1. Bring a double and he can kick it to a shooter. You can sag off on ball screens and help from weakside with Davis as your big. It's not perfect but it can work, especially if you have a wing like McRoberts that Davis could defend.

I agree that the game has moved away from a traditional plodding, back to the basket, big. However, if Morgan is our primary 5 for the entire season we'll struggle.


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One reason why i Fitzner might have a chance. Fills a key need on both sides of the ball. Nobody can fill both those needs

[CSP]

21 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

None of those guys are going to stop him 1v1. Bring a double and he can kick it to a shooter. You can sag off on ball screens and help from weakside with Davis as your big. It's not perfect but it can work, especially if you have a wing like McRoberts that Davis could defend.

I agree that the game has moved away from a traditional plodding, back to the basket, big. However, if Morgan is our primary 5 for the entire season we'll struggle.


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I don't think we'll struggle at all. You're way over selling Davis. McRoberts can still shoot so idk what you keep bringing him up for? Also.. do any good teams have players you can just sag off? 

And honestly I really don't care what other teams Davis would work with. He doesn't for us. 

No one will ever double Davis. No need. He can't beat those 3 1v1 regularly. Just not good enough. 

[MikeRoberts]

I don't think we'll struggle at all. You're way over selling Davis. McRoberts can still shoot so idk what you keep bringing him up for? Also.. do any good teams have players you can just sag off? 
And honestly I really don't care what other teams Davis would work with. He doesn't for us. 
No one will ever double Davis. No need. He can't beat those 3 1v1 regularly. Just not good enough. 

He did just fine against Duke, in fact one could argue he was the most impactful player on the court. He has all the tools when healthy to be force. He played hurt for a while and then sat out the rest of his sophomore season. He is young and been injured...


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[ebridges24]

Yes Mandeville made like top 20 at nike camp and ended up being a bust. Eggers was just awful.

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They were as brutally bad as you are brutally honest.

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[CSP]

10 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

He did just fine against Duke, in fact one could argue he was the most impactful player on the court. He has all the tools when healthy to be force. He played hurt for a while and then sat out the rest of his sophomore season. He is young and been injured...


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One game. IPFW and ISU he could barely play because of the style of play. One solid game does nothing for me. 

[CSP]

I'm not a fan of his game or his value to our team. I am a fan of Fitzners game and his value to our team. 

[RaceToTheTop]

I think people are being waaaaayyyyy too polarizing on Davis.