(2019) CG Jahmius Ramsey

[Hardwood83 4,725]

So is the consensus that the Ramsey ship has sailed to TTU or Loserville? 

[Hurryin' Hoosiers 1,951]

17 hours ago, Stromboli said:

 

Peanuts compared to value they provide for the university.  These kids are getting swindled.  

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/college-basketball-player-value-2017-3

 

Edit:  From that link, each of our guys provided a value of $870,000 annually to the University.  D-1 average is $170,000 annually.

Yea, just like every employee gets swindled when compared to their CEO/Owner. 

NBA/NFL players get swindled by owners.

Employees get swindled by CEOs/Management

If players get paid then they should then be considered public employees and subject to anything that applies as such.

If we are going to talk about the unfairness to players, then lets discuss how that is real life for pretty much everyone but the 1%ers.  

However, players have it much better than their peers.  Otherwise, they would just play basketball at the HPER without a scholarship.

[mdn82 25,510]

So is the consensus that the Ramsey ship has sailed to TTU or Loserville? 

I think so for the most part. Probably some feeling good if he makes it to HH and after. But I personally feel better about others.


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[Beachfront Property 619]

1 hour ago, mdn82 said:

I think so for the most part. Probably some feeling good if he makes it to HH and after. But I personally feel better about others.


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Looking at Ramsey’s finalists - I’d say he is a total wild card. I would also discount Louisville here as they are pretty full at his position and his official to Louisville was followed by crystal ball picks to TT. 

I don’t think IU gets him. However, if he comes to Hoosier Hysteria we will have a shot - as he has never seen an environment like that before and will not see it again on his remaining visits.

[Alford Bailey 12,348]

4 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

I still don’t understand how people say they aren’t paid. They are being compensated more than the average working adult!

The amount provided in free education, meals, housing, transportation, coaching, training, medical etc etc adds up to a ton and way more than hard working individuals that have college degrees and work full time


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This

[Brass Cannon 24,210]

4 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

I still don’t understand how people say they aren’t paid. They are being compensated more than the average working adult!

The amount provided in free education, meals, housing, transportation, coaching, training, medical etc etc adds up to a ton and way more than hard working individuals that have college degrees and work full time


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Question have you ever referred to somebody on an academic scholarship as being paid?

i doubt it. And if so you are certainly in the minority. Nobody accuses people on academic scholarship as being paid. Because being paid and compensated are very different things. 

Dobi want 30,000 dollars or 30,000 dollars worth of a service. One I’m being paid the other I am receiving compensation. 

These kids can’t take their scholarship to IU and trade it to get their parents out of a bad neighborhood. 

[MikeRoberts 6,914]

Question have you ever referred to somebody on an academic scholarship as being paid?
i doubt it. And if so you are certainly in the minority. Nobody accuses people on academic scholarship as being paid. Because being paid and compensated are very different things. 
Dobi want 30,000 dollars or 30,000 dollars worth of a service. One I’m being paid the other I am receiving compensation. 
These kids can’t take their scholarship to IU and trade it to get their parents out of a bad neighborhood. 

Of course they can! Give a person a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats well for a Lifetime. The education and experience they are getting for free that all other kids and their parents are paying for is provided free of charge. It’s worth millions over the span of ones lifetime.


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[Brass Cannon 24,210]

4 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Of course they can! Give a person a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats well for a Lifetime. The education and experience they are getting for free that all other kids and their parents are paying for is provided free of charge. It’s worth millions over the span of ones lifetime.


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So they get paid after college? That doesn’t help their parents or loved ones for 3 to 4 years. That’s a lot different than getting paid. Which allows you to help them now. 

Especially in an economy where wages are stagnant for college grads. 

[Bailey7878 2,506]

IU should just cheat. You dont get punished. 
 
 
Except, that we would.

What fbi corruption scandal? It blew over just as I expected.

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[MikeRoberts 6,914]

So they get paid after college? That doesn’t help their parents or loved ones for 3 to 4 years. That’s a lot different than getting paid. Which allows you to help them now. 
Especially in an economy where wages are stagnant for college grads. 

I like this debate but will only make one more response on this in this thread as we are a little off topic

I am arguing that student athletes get more value than the average student, yet the average student is paying tens of thousands out of pocket to get less than the athlete gets for free. That family that you referenced would have been saddled with debt but instead are relieved of any financial obligation. They basically took an expensive child off their bottom line and put it on the university so if that isn’t immediate help I don’t know what is.

Secondly, the value of an education and experiences they have living on campus is worth a lifetime of money and stability. Without college and these universities offering, many would not go to college at all and would stay stuck in a bad situation.

Net net is that the value a school offers is large, impactful and immediate as well as long term. The odds of these kids making it to the pros and becoming millionaires is slim and taking a $50k handout from a leach isn’t going to last long without the skills toward continued employment/career


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[Brass Cannon 24,210]

2 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

I like this debate but will only make one more response on this in this thread as we are a little off topic

I am arguing that student athletes get more value than the average student, yet the average student is paying tens of thousands out of pocket to get less than the athlete gets for free. That family that you referenced would have been saddled with debt but instead are relieved of any financial obligation. They basically took an expensive child off their bottom line and put it on the university so if that isn’t immediate help I don’t know what is.

Secondly, the value of an education and experiences they have living on campus is worth a lifetime of money and stability. Without college and these universities offering, many would not go to college at all and would stay stuck in a bad situation.

Net net is that the value a school offers is large, impactful and immediate as well as long term. The odds of these kids making it to the pros and becoming millionaires is slim and taking a $50k handout from a leach isn’t going to last long without the skills toward continued employment/career


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Just because they get more than the standard student doesn’t make it acceptable. They add more value than the typical student. 

I’m not saying it’s not valuable what they are getting. But they aren’t being paid. They are being compensated which a great of them don’t actually value. And others are robbed of.  Look at UNC those athletes didn’t get paid or compensated because they were robbed of an education. 

You think any of those UNC kids are holding down jobs that allow them to take care of their parents. Probably not but they sure made NCAA leadership a lot of money. 

When you allow people to be compensated with something that isn’t real and isn’t material it makes it very easy for fraud. 

And Look at one and dones they never derive any value from that scholarship. So are even being compensated?  

[Hurryin' Hoosiers 1,951]

Those players could have taken real courses or transferred to another school.

[Brass Cannon 24,210]

5 minutes ago, iuswingman said:

Those players could have taken real courses or transferred to another school.

You don’t always realize you are being robbed until it’s already happened. 

But no let’s continue to blame the 19 year old kids for being taken advantage of. Definitely not the 30-50 year olds behind the whole mess. 

Nope the teenagers should have demanded those adults act more responsibly. 

[Bigred3588 1,535]

4 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

You don’t always realize you are being robbed until it’s already happened. 

But no let’s continue to blame the 19 year old kids for being taken advantage of. Definitely not the 30-50 year olds behind the whole mess. 

Nope the teenagers should have demanded those adults act more responsibly. 

Did I miss something? I didn't realize their diplomas were revised to add an asterisk next to their major... 

And taken advantage of? You think those players didn't know exactly what was going on? I'm sure most of them weren't brain surgeons but i'm pretty sure they realized something was up when they saw the other 40K students actually going to class and working. Not to mention the fact that more than one flat out admitted knowledge of the fact that they were being guided into BS courses.

To address the previous post, if these players don't value the free education they are receiving and don't use it to further themselves professionally, that's their problem. I know I sure as heck would've appreciated it, but I'm 5'8" and not particularly athletic so nobody was willing to pay my way because I could play a game. These players receive a free education and hundreds of thousands (or sometimes millions) more over a lifetime because they could play basketball. It may not be immediate, but it pays in the long run. And it pays a lot more than a high school education alone would have.

And if a player is one-and-done, then yes, they are being compensated by NBA teams. The one year in college gave them a platform to promote themselves and earn a contract that's worth more money than most people will see in a lifetime.

Finally, you've had a few posts where you talk about them supporting their families. Maybe my parents were old-school in the way they raised me, but when did it become the kid's responsibility to support their parents financially?

[mamasa 15,123]

I hear this Ramsey kid is pretty good!

[Brass Cannon 24,210]

10 minutes ago, Bigred3588 said:

Did I miss something? I didn't realize their diplomas were revised to add an asterisk next to their major... 

And taken advantage of? You think those players didn't know exactly what was going on? I'm sure most of them weren't brain surgeons but i'm pretty sure they realized something was up when they saw the other 40K students actually going to class and working. Not to mention the fact that more than one flat out admitted knowledge of the fact that they were being guided into BS courses.

To address the previous post, if these players don't value the free education they are receiving and don't use it to further themselves professionally, that's their problem. I know I sure as heck would've appreciated it, but I'm 5'8" and not particularly athletic so nobody was willing to pay my way because I could play a game. These players receive a free education and hundreds of thousands (or sometimes millions) more over a lifetime because they could play basketball. It may not be immediate, but it pays in the long run. And it pays a lot more than a high school education alone would have.

And if a player is one-and-done, then yes, they are being compensated by NBA teams. The one year in college gave them a platform to promote themselves and earn a contract that's worth more money than most people will see in a lifetime.

Finally, you've had a few posts where you talk about them supporting their families. Maybe my parents were old-school in the way they raised me, but when did it become the kid's responsibility to support their parents financially?

Wow it takes a special kind of person to say they wouldn’t help their parents if you were better off financially. 

But regardless of that it’s still not a reason to continue the indentured servitude of college athletics

[Hardwood83 4,725]

1 hour ago, Bailey7878 said:

What fbi corruption scandal? It blew over just as I expected.

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Depends on what you mean by "blew over". Will Calipari, Boeheim and the rest of the usual suspects get tarred and feathered then fired in disgrace, like they deserve? No, probably not. But the Federal judiciary isn't worried about our thirst for justice- or even news. Those wheels are grinding along slowly. I expect more indictments and fall-out to come, but I don't expect it to be satisfactory. Coach K, Self, Old Roy, et al aren't handing out bags of cash or car keys themselves. They are much more clever then that. Pitino was greedy and arrogant and got caught. The rest of the fall guys will likely be Assistants and runners. 

[hoosierbgh 1,264]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Question have you ever referred to somebody on an academic scholarship as being paid?

i doubt it. And if so you are certainly in the minority. Nobody accuses people on academic scholarship as being paid. Because being paid and compensated are very different things. 

Dobi want 30,000 dollars or 30,000 dollars worth of a service. One I’m being paid the other I am receiving compensation. 

These kids can’t take their scholarship to IU and trade it to get their parents out of a bad neighborhood. 

The kids on academic scholarship have more reason to complain than those on athletic scholarship. Either way, both types know exactly what they are signing up for and do so voluntarily. A scholarship is the best deal most of them get since the reality is that the supply of raw, unproven potential is high and the demand for it is low. Whining because the market doesn't value their time and effort as much as they do is nothing more than entitlement. 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,181]

So they get paid after college? That doesn’t help their parents or loved ones for 3 to 4 years. That’s a lot different than getting paid. Which allows you to help them now. 
Especially in an economy where wages are stagnant for college grads. 

When they major in something that does not have a bright economic future and then complain about it, I don't feel sorry for them. My 2 boys did it right. They went to trade schools. One as an electrician and the other in plumbing, heating and HVAC.They will make more money in their lifetime than those that major in subjects that have no future.

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[Hardwood83 4,725]

Just now, iufaninillinois said:

When they major in something that does not have a bright economic future and then complain about it, I don't feel sorry for them. My 2 boys did it right. They went to trade schools. One as an electrician and the other in plumbing, heating and HVAC.They will make more money in their lifetime than those that major in subjects that have no future.

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Since this thread is completely derailed already......I agree completely. I just told a nephew the other day to seriously consider a trade. He's an indifferent student, but capable mechanically, so why go to college and rack up debt? His older brother and sister both went to IU, so he thinks he needs to also.