Morgan Ellison to miss rest of spring season

[Walking Boot of Doom]

Basically he just needs to transfer. He hasn’t been proven guilty of anything. It was a he said she said thing it seems. But #believeallwomen or whatever it was. He sexually assaults you but you don’t file charges on him?


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You’re right, you know more about the facts than a panel of people involved in the situation.

And I’m sure you have a perfect understanding of the situation to disregard the assault claims.

Do yourself a favor and look up the statistics around false sexual assault charges.


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[mamasa]

7 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

Well what proof did the panel have? She claimed, he denied it and she hasn’t pressed charges. Did they have witnesses? Did they do an investigation or just talk about it?


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I'm not trying to defend or accuse, but do you honestly believe that the panel would remove Ellison from the team, and suspend from any campus for that period of time with no evidence?  That's a heavy decision, and I trust that due process and diligence was upheld.  I don't think anyone on this board knows what the panel heard from either side. 

[American HoosierX]

20 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

Considering how liberal IU is? Yes. I believe they’d side with her without having any proof of it happening.


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What do you consider proof? It sounds to me like the girl is claiming she was blacked out when he (allegedly) assaulted her.  

It probably wouldn't hold up in a court of law, but if you are having sex with girls that are that drunk then you are a scumbag.

[American HoosierX]

4 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

And he said it was all consensual. Meaning it is just he said she said.


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Which is why I said may not hold up in a court of law.

But if a girl is drunk to the point of blacking out, I don't care if she wasn't resisting or appeared to be going along with it.  There is still a difference between right and wrong.  Even if a court wouldn't technically brand you a rapist, I wouldn't want you wearing an IU jersey.

[Josh]

51 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

Well what proof did the panel have? She claimed, he denied it and she hasn’t pressed charges. Did they have witnesses? Did they do an investigation or just talk about it?


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Do you know the answers to these questions?  Because you're speaking definitively as though you do.  If you don't know about witnesses, witness statements, or statements of the two involved, then you're speaking out of your own bias.

[Brass Cannon]

ITT asleep and blacked are the same thing. 

[Brass Cannon]

1 hour ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

I am totally confused as to why he was allowed to return to the practice field while this was clearly still a pending issue and his future at IU very much in doubt.  Makes no sense to me.

Yep not a good look for our coaching staff and for Glass to not overrule it

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

But if it was consensual it doesn’t matter? Stupid decisions are made while drunk. That’s well known. If it was consensual, her being drunk doesn’t make it sexual assault.


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Man I love the what if game. Too bad it's usually not a good time to play it

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, Joe DeLow said:

The entire situation is a what if.


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Not if you aren't biased

[American HoosierX]

Just now, Joe DeLow said:

But if it was consensual it doesn’t matter? Stupid decisions are made while drunk. That’s well known. If it was consensual, her being drunk doesn’t make it sexual assault.


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Well technically she wouldn't have the faculties to consent in that situation, but proving that she was unable to consent in a court of law is very difficult.

Again to me it comes down to right and wrong.  There are enough women at IU who aren't blacked out drunk and more than willing to have sex that this shouldn't happen.  If you are the guy preying on the drunkest girl at the party, again you are a scumbag.

[Brass Cannon]

6 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

But believing her and not him is unbiased?


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Believing the independent panel that deemed he did is the opposite of bias. 

[Brass Cannon]

Has it even confirmed she was drunk or is that some BS you are just making up

[American HoosierX]

2 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

People make decisions when drunk. To get in a car and drive, to fight people, to go gambling and you have to face the consequences of making a decision while under the influence. So if you can’t consent to sex under the influence then how can you get in trouble for choosing to drive under the influence?


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That's the problem though, she is too drunk to make a decision.

By your logic a girl could pass out drunk in her own bed, a guy could follow her in and have sex with her while she is sleeping, and it would be her fault to getting too drunk.

We're obviously not going to agree so I will stop here.

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 hour ago, Joe DeLow said:

Basically he just needs to transfer. He hasn’t been proven guilty of anything. It was a he said she said thing it seems. But #believeallwomen or whatever it was. He sexually assaults you but you don’t file charges on him?


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It doesn't make any sense to me that she wouldn't file charges. I don't know if Morgan Ellison sexually assaulted the woman. Only he and the girl know. What I do know is that these campus panels are often shams. They don't use the same burden of proof as the criminal system, and they don't allow for the cross-examination of witnesses. 

I understand that it's different because Ellison isn't facing jail time because of the panel's decision, but let's be honest. Losing your scholarship and getting kicked out of school is a pretty steep price to pay. Just a year ago two Sacred Heart football players lost their scholarships and were kicked out of school after being accused of rape. Turns out, the woman lied about it and is now serving time in prison for making false allegations. Unfortunately, the damage had already been done to the two young men. The police exist to investigate crimes. They're the professionals here, not a panel of faculty members. Leave the detective work to them.

https://apnews.com/47524e930a434068a819bc0cd4646b38

[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

It doesn't make any sense to me that she wouldn't file charges. I don't know if Morgan Ellison sexually assaulted the woman. Only he and the girl know. What I do know is that these campus panels are often shams. They don't use the same burden of proof as the criminal system, and they don't allow for the cross-examination of witnesses. 

I understand that it's different because Ellison isn't facing jail time because of the panel's decision, but let's be honest. Losing your scholarship and getting kicked out of school is a pretty steep price to pay. Just a year ago two Sacred Heart football players lost their scholarships and were kicked out of school after being accused of rape. Turns out, the woman lied about it and is now serving time in prison for making false allegations. Unfortunately, the damage had already been done to the two young men. The police exist to investigate crimes. They're the professionals here, not a panel of faculty members. Leave the detective work to them.

https://apnews.com/47524e930a434068a819bc0cd4646b38

Women do not report for a laundry list of reasons. Up to and including death threats. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Women do not report for a laundry list of reasons. Up to an including death threats. 

But she did report... To IU. Just not to the police. So, it wasn't fear of Ellison that stopped her from reporting because she did report. There has to be another reason why she didn't report it to the police. 

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, Joe DeLow said:

If she is sleeping then she has a legitimate inability to consent. She can consent while drunk. It is just a dumb decision due to to her dumb decision to get drunk.


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Once again was she actually drunk. Not that it matters but is that something you are just making up because you think it helps your warped case

[Brass Cannon]

Just now, Hoosierfan2017 said:

But she did report... To IU. Just not to the police. So, it wasn't fear of Ellison that stopped her from reporting because she did report. There has to be another reason why she didn't report it to the police. 

She didn’t necessarily report it. She could have gone to the health center. Plus With IU better chance she can stay anonymous. 

[VO5]

9 minutes ago, Joe DeLow said:

If she is sleeping then she has a legitimate inability to consent. She can consent while drunk. It is just a dumb decision due to to her dumb decision to get drunk.


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As ridiculous as it sounds, I was always told that even a “yes” while drunk isn’t consent. So even if you both are drunk and agree, the girl can call rape the next day. I’m not by any means saying this is the case here or know if Ellison is guilty/innocent.

I do think, however, that in sexual assault cases you are guilty until proven innocent. Saw it happen to a guy that lived right next to me senior year and he got kicked out of school. Came out later that the girl just regretted her decision to have sex that night and it cost this guy everything. 

[Chris007]

2 hours ago, Joe DeLow said:

Basically he just needs to transfer. He hasn’t been proven guilty of anything. It was a he said she said thing it seems. But #believeallwomen or whatever it was. He sexually assaults you but you don’t file charges on him?


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I'm not going to get into specifics but that article didn't do the whole process justice. There was a lot more proof that she was telling the truth, than what he brought to the table.