Morgan Ellison to miss rest of spring season

[Brass Cannon]

5 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

So if a woman was raped, or claimed rape, at your former place of employment they would tell her “you have to go through corporate procedures and cannot call the police”?

Not those words but essentially. It never happened to me but almost did. Woman recanted after it was insinuated she would lose her job. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

You continue to ignore the women who are victims. Rape culture. 

Why not make up stuff about her being drunk or about how if it happened she would have gone to the police. 

There's not much you can do for alleged victims when they don't go to the police. If someone robs me but I never go to the police it would make zero sense to complain about being ignored. You refuse to consider for even a second that some men are falsely accused and have their lives ruined because of it. Am I to assume that you don't care about people who are falsely accused? Are they just necessary casualties to you?

[DChoosier]

Just now, Hoosierfan2017 said:

They put faculty through a few days of training and then expect them to be able to handle allegations that are difficult even for trained professionals. It doesn't make any sense at all. 

It does not make any sense at all.

i just want the truth. As an example If a student witness, that is a friend of the alleged perpetrator, is questioned by a Geology professor he/she might be more inclined to lie/omit facts as opposed to talking to a member of the legal system that tells them “ you could be an accomplice, charged for lying”etc.  It just seems like a no brainer. Crime = dealing with the  legal system, not a Folklore professor..

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

There's not much you can do for alleged victims when they don't go to the police. If someone robs me but I never go to the police it would make zero sense to complain about being ignored. You refuse to consider for even a second that some men are falsely accused and have their lives ruined because of it. Am I to assume that you don't care about people who are falsely accused? Are they just necessary casualties to you?

Some men are falsely accused. Rape culture is ignoring all women because of it like you are saying to do. 

[Brass Cannon]

An employer or school is not a court of law. Most people get expelled or fired without a full police investigation. Why should accused rapists get special treatment?  Oh because rape culture that devalues female victims. 

[DChoosier]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

An employer or school is not a court of law. Most people get expelled or fired without a full police investigation. Why should accused rapists get special treatment?  Oh because rape culture that devalues female victims. 

I think we are on the same page.

The charges should be referred to the police, not handled by the university.

Guilty... out of school and face the punishment as per the legal system.

Not guilty... in school, on the team etc.

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 minute ago, DChoosier said:

It does not make any sense at all.

i just want the truth. As an example If a student witness, that is a friend of the alleged perpetrator, is questioned by a Geology professor he/she might be more inclined to lie/omit facts as opposed to talking to a member of the legal system that tells them “ you could be an accomplice, charged for lying”etc.  It just seems like a no brainer. Crime = dealing with the  legal system, not a Folklore professor..

Agreed 100%. I know to some it may seem like I'm being a "rape apologist" or "not thinking about the victims", but that's not the case at all. Like you said, I just want the truth. A panel of faculty members with a few days of training and no legal expertise is going to have a much tougher time finding the truth than law enforcement. They don't even let the accused students have lawyers ask witnesses questions. How is an 18 year old kid supposed to know how to cross-examine witnesses? 

[Hoosierfan2017]

7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Some men are falsely accused. Rape culture is ignoring all women because of it like you are saying to do. 

Saying that victims should report crimes to the police = saying we should ignore all women? Lol, ok. 

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

I think we are on the same page.

The charges should be referred to the police, not handled by the university.

Guilty... out of school and face the punishment as per the legal system.

Not guilty... in school, on the team etc.

Not really. I’m fully ok with suspending somebody based on accusations if it’s not possible to separate him from the victim. Not fair to retraumatize over and over again the 90+% That aren’t lying. 

Obviously if the accusation was false the accuser should be punished though 

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Saying that victims should report crimes to the police = saying we should ignore all women? Lol, ok. 

Rape culture Continues to ignore  why women don’t report. 

[DChoosier]

I did not say the accused would not be suspended until the case was resolved.

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, DChoosier said:

I did not say the accused would not be suspended until the case was resolved.

My mistake. Same page then. But I also think universities should investigate themselves and expel accordingly. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Rape culture Continues to ignore  why women don’t report. 

If women don't report then nothing can be done. It's pretty silly to expect something to be done about an assault if it's never reported. 

[DChoosier]

5 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

My mistake. Same page then. But I also think universities should investigate themselves and expel accordingly. 

That’s where do disagree.

I think the university should suspend an accused felon but that the legal system, not the university, should conduct the investigation and decide guilt or non-guilt.

[8bucks]

I don’t think they should suspend based on accusation alone.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/37090/35-times-men-were-falsely-accused-sexual-assault-kassy-dillon?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro


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[Brass Cannon]

On 10/12/2018 at 8:53 PM, DChoosier said:

That’s where do disagree.

I think the university should suspend an accused felon but that the legal system, not the university, should conduct the investigation and decide guilt or non-guilt.

So a victim gets retraumatized every time they have to see their accuser. Tormenting hundreds of women to protect a handul of falsely accused men is rape culture. 

[8bucks]

So a victim gets retraumatized every time they have to see their accuser. Tormenting hundreds of women to protect a handul of falsely accused men is rape culture. 

Accusation alone - not enough. Sorry. If there is some corroborated evidence then it may make sense.

The accuser should be kept confidential and their complaint should be investigated by law enforcement, not the school.

I am all for making it easier for the accuser to come forward but no way I jump past due process.


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[Brass Cannon]

Just now, 8bucks said:

Accusation alone - not enough. Sorry. If there is some corroborated evidence then it may make sense.

The accuser should be kept confidential and their complaint should be investigated by law enforcement, not the school.

I am all for making it easier for the accuser to come forward but no way I jump past due process.


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Well then i suppose you support everybody who gets fired or expelled for any reason should get due process. 

 

[8bucks]

Well then i suppose you support everybody who gets fired or expelled for any reason should get due process. 
 

Big jump there isn’t that?


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[mdn82]

Accusation alone - not enough. Sorry. If there is some corroborated evidence then it may make sense.

 

The accuser should be kept confidential and their complaint should be investigated by law enforcement, not the school.

 

I am all for making it easier for the accuser to come forward but no way I jump past due process.

 

 

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To me the school is much like an employer. At will. There are no constitutional rights that a kid has to go to any school. It’s up to the accuser if they want it to be criminal. The school has the responsibility to look out for the students safety and that is why they are more worried about whether or not a kid should be included in their university. Each individual case is for sure different but I feel a player has to be held out until things are sorted out. It sets a bad precedent and then you start having situations like MSU if the school can let a kid play a game at their discretion. Mainly because of the money involved in college athletics.

 

 

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