IUBB at Wisconsin - 1/2/18 @ 7:00 E.T.

[HoosierAloha]

I think I finally figured out why this team is so frustrating. I was never the biggest, tallest, strongest, or most talented player in any sport. The only way I was decent in any sport was through heart, effort, and knowledge. This team lacks all of that. I loved to win but HATED to lose even more.

We have very few competitors on this team. It's composed of guys who like basketball and hanging out with buddies. Has there been a single player who has gotten on a teammate for missing a defensive play or throwing the ball away?! Nah, it's about giving a half ***** effort. That doesn't cut it.

I would give kudos to CAM if in the next practice few practices determined who played based on heart, effort, and intelligence. This season is going to be rough so the players who will "run through the brick wall."

I can tell you the players who won't.


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[AZ Hoosier]

21 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don’t blame this all on Archie but I also reject the excuse that these aren’t “his” guys. Coaches come in all the time and have success year 1, or if not success at least not a dumpster fire. Holtmann at Ohio State inherited a worse roster from Matta and has that team playing well and winning games. 

Reject away, man... but the fact is, Arch didn't recruit any of these guys. He did not have an opportunity to evaluate them as to how their character, work ethic and talent may or may not fit his desired profile and his coaching style, They were basically dumped in his lap. In even the best situation, some of these kids could, with a good bit of reach, be what he would have chosen... but clearly, this is far from said "best situation". 

On the plus side, none of these kids have been caught drinking under-age, smoking pot or running over teammates with cars... so I guess all is not lost.

[IUHAHN81]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I think I finally figured out why this team is so frustrating. I was never the biggest, tallest, strongest, or most talented player in any sport. The only way I was decent in any sport was through heart, effort, and knowledge. This team lacks all of that. I loved to win but HATED to lose even more.

We have very few competitors on this team. It's composed of guys who like basketball and hanging out with buddies. Has there been a single player who has gotten on a teammate for missing a defensive play or throwing the ball away?! Nah, it's about giving a half ***** effort. That doesn't cut it.

I would give kudos to CAM if in the next practice few practices determined who played based on heart, effort, and intelligence. This season is going to be rough so the players who will "run through the brick wall."

I can tell you the players who won't.


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I agree.  Talent doesn't always beat the desire to win no matter what.  Case in point, tonight's game.  We had more talent, but they gave a crap and wanted to win more so.....they did.

[HoosierAloha]

I agree.  Talent doesn't always beat the desire to win no matter what.  Case in point, tonight's game.  We had more talent, but they gave a crap and wanted to win more so.....they did.

It just baffles me that these kids are on scholarship at Indiana freaking University and they give the impression that losing is okay. I get pisses when I lose at a flipping card game that doesn't even involve money. Have some flipping pride in yourself if you can't take pride in the university. Take pride in giving your all for the teammates that bust their butt. It's acceptable to have a poor shooting night. It's unacceptable to mope around like you don't care.


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[IUHAHN81]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

It just baffles me that these kids are on scholarship at Indiana freaking University and they give the impression that losing is okay. I get pisses when I lose at a flipping card game that doesn't even involve money. Have some flipping pride in yourself if you can't take pride in the university. Take pride in giving your all for the teammates that bust their butt. It's acceptable to have a poor shooting night. It's unacceptable to mope around like you don't care.


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Could not agree More! Like u, I don't do ANYTHING in life not caring if I look like crap or lazy or WHATEVER.  I do everything with a purpose.   So when u and I see things like the way this team is....we cannot comprehend.  Haha

[HoosierAloha]

Could not agree More! Like u, I don't do ANYTHING in life not caring if I look like crap or lazy or WHATEVER.  I do everything with a purpose.   So when u and I see things like the way this team is....we cannot comprehend.  Haha

Yeah man. Not only that but I get on people around me if I see they don't care. Of course, I was probably raised differently and have been appreciative of any opportunities that I've been given.

 

This brings me to the hope that CAM will turn this program around. He seems to be the type that had to earn what he has and will recruit those type of kids.

 

I do think we won't see results until year three but it only takes a handful of decently talented kids to turn things around. A Phinisee, Morgan, and Durham types could be the types we need to tip the scales in our favor.i haven't given up on Davis but I'm not far off. We need an injection of toughness, heart, and intelligence.

 

On down the road, I hope Indiana basketball returns to Indiana basketball. We need the results on the court to speak more than the social media and image of the program.

 

Butler continues to hire coach after coach that gets better results. I want a program that will survive one coach. We've shown that we were the fight Bob Knights as we haven't been able to reach a level of consistency since he f'd up.

 

 

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[Bowhunter]

I'm getting too damn old to wait for another rebuild. I've been waiting since the mid 90s and watching since the late 70s. I thought this coaching staff was one of the best put together in college basketball , at least on paper. Hoping Archie's recruits are the answer , cause right now I'm not impressed. 

[AZ Hoosier]

3 hours ago, Bowhunter said:

I'm getting too damn old to wait for another rebuild. I've been waiting since the mid 90s and watching since the late 70s. I thought this coaching staff was one of the best put together in college basketball , at least on paper. Hoping Archie's recruits are the answer , cause right now I'm not impressed. 

You cannot coach the uncoachable. As important as the coaching staff is, they need kids who are willing to listen, try and show some effort.

[Magnanimous]

Let's not forget this team went 18-16 last year and lost their three best players while bringing in no one of substance. I was cautiously optimistic this year, but my gut was telling me 15 wins was our ceiling for this season. 

[HoosierCoop]

If you see the correlation between our "good" games and our "piss poor" games it's all about ball movement.

Duke, Notre Dame, Iowa = passes were crisp, players cut to the basket, got to the line, inside-out movement, etc.

Michigan, Wisconsin, IPFW = one-on-one, too much dribbling, no movement to the basket, settled for horrible shots, etc.

These kids still have habits that need broken and for some it's not too late.  Archie needs to get on this but a coach doesn't throw a lazy interior pass, or miss a block out, or chose to give a S*** on the floor.

What makes me mad is we got beat last night by a bunch of Zach McRoberts.

[pumpfake]

A few odd thoughts after some reflection:

- Apparently Dakich said something about Davis being lazy in practice? (I listen to Fisch with the TV muted).  This is very disturbing if true, IMO.  It also may address the question of why Archie doesn't bench some players.  He sees them daily and how much effort and production they show in practice.  Perhaps he doesn't have any real alternatives due to not having anyone who he feels would play better or harder when certain players aren't getting the job done.  When Davis comes out disinterested and in immediate foul trouble we have little choice but to bring in Freddie (a player that would sit behind a few of our football walk on players in the past).

- As I stated last night, I'm really leaning strongly in the direction of believing that the 4-year player is the way to build this program back up.  I know we all want to be among the NC/UK/KU/MSU clique but modeling after the Butler approach might be a much better strategy (a better brand of ball - tougher, smarter with lots of 'local' talent to build with).  I have no doubt that if we build a team this way that we will attract several highly ranked players to boot.

- Finally, something both befuddling and amusing - Rob Johnson.  This is a guy that declared for the NBA draft this past Spring (really, I'm pretty such he did!).  Obviously he was told he needed to be better to make it at the next level, but where is the evidence that he's busting his arse to get there?  Maybe he thought he could just bail out and get paid at the same time and when the reality that wasn't possible he's decided to just coast and then go play overseas?  He's not alone in being underwhelming this season, but jeez his draft stock has to be lower than it was before.

Sorry for the rambling, semi-coherent post.  I think it's just reality setting in.....

[TXHoosierDaddy]

5 hours ago, Bowhunter said:

I'm getting too damn old to wait for another rebuild. I've been waiting since the mid 90s and watching since the late 70s. I thought this coaching staff was one of the best put together in college basketball , at least on paper. Hoping Archie's recruits are the answer , cause right now I'm not impressed. 

If we can get a guy like RL we will be exponentially better next year with all the guys we have coming in. Archie really needs a program changer like the one OU has right now with Trae Young. They weren't even a tourney team last year and are in the top 10 in the country now. Not saying RL has to be that good. Otherwise, if things stay the way they are I think we are looking at CAM's year 3 as the one where we are back in the tourney and trending upwards. 

[Brass Cannon]

Shame we didn't start the rebuild two years ago like we should have.  

[TXHoosierDaddy]

2 hours ago, Magnanimous said:

Let's not forget this team went 18-16 last year and lost their three best players while bringing in no one of substance. I was cautiously optimistic this year, but my gut was telling me 15 wins was our ceiling for this season. 

This team really needed a stud grad transfer or freshman. None of the guys coming back were really starters outside of Rob. The only guy who has really taken a step forward is Morgan. Everyone else is either pretty similar to last year and some guys are getting exposed as players that shouldn't be getting as many minutes as they are. Problem is there are few alternatives. When McRoberts plays 28 minutes you know there is a lack of trust and confidence from coach to players. 

[TXHoosierDaddy]

14 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Shame we didn't start the rebuild two years ago like we should have.  

It disgusts me too to see Dakich go on the air yesterday and say Crean shouldn't have been fired. The guy was here 9 seasons not 3!!! Then Dakich says again the team should have hired Alford. It's so tiring listening to the guy. Agree Crean should have been gone 2 seasons ago and if it wasn't for Yogi putting the team on his back all year he would have. 

[triple]

5 minutes ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

It disgusts me too to see Dakich go on the air yesterday and say Crean shouldn't have been fired. The guy was here 9 seasons not 3!!! Then Dakich says again the team should have hired Alford. It's so tiring listening to the guy. Agree Crean should have been gone 2 seasons ago and if it wasn't for Yogi putting the team on his back all year he would have. 

Dakich couldn't call a game without bias and/or drama to save his life.  He's right about a lot of stuff factually, but he sounds more like an average fan than a professional, in my opinion.  

[Maedhros]

13 hours ago, DChoosier said:

I am not a Crean defender,  and am glad he is gone, but I do not really think this team would look any worse at this point if he was still the coach.  You are right about no size, depth etc but we have lost to a decimated Wiscy team, ISU and IUPUIFW.  It it hard to use a talent excuse against those teams. The lack of effort has really been a disappointment.  Folks can disagree but I think a coach should at least bring out effort.

I'm going to add to this. Crean had his head-scratching results to be sure: losing at home to Eastern Washington. Losing on the road to Illinois and Penn State. But those were all at least close games, where the team failed to execute in the closing minutes. Last year's loss to Fort Wayne was an overtime defeat on the road. This year's loss to Fort Wayne was a 20-point thrashing on our home-court, with the team getting boat-raced in the second half. And after we'd already been beaten by 20 at home by another in-state mid-major earlier in the season. Last night's second half looked a lot like those two games, or the first halves against Youngstown State, Tennessee Tech, and Michigan. This is happening far too often for me to not look in the direction of the guy running the practices. 

[cthomas]

1 hour ago, pumpfake said:

As I stated last night, I'm really leaning strongly in the direction of believing that the 4-year player is the way to build this program back up.  I know we all want to be among the NC/UK/KU/MSU clique but modeling after the Butler approach might be a much better strategy (a better brand of ball - tougher, smarter with lots of 'local' talent to build with).  I have no doubt that if we build a team this way that we will attract several highly ranked players to boot.

I've been thinking for a while that this is where we are headed. It's hard to see CAM embracing the one-and-done philosophy when he talks about needing three years to master the defense he wants to play. I'm sure he will take top ten talent but I don't see him building the program around them. Maybe the worst thing that happened to him was virtually everyone coming back. Holtman was at least able to go out and get a few of his own guys.

[Maedhros]

12 hours ago, Magnanimous said:

There isn't a single coach in the country who could win much with these guys. I'd hope most fans realize that.

I'm not asking Archie to win the Big Ten his first season, or even finish in that next tier. But I imagine I could find a few coaches who would have beaten Indiana State and Fort Wayne at home with this roster, or at least kept it within 20. I'm tired of "talent" being used as an excuse. We had more talent than that Wisconsin team missing half its rotation.

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

6 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

I'm not asking Archie to win the Big Ten his first season, or even finish in that next tier. But I imagine I could find a few coaches who would have beaten Indiana State and Fort Wayne at home with this roster, or at least kept it within 20. I'm tired of "talent" being used as an excuse. We had more talent than that Wisconsin team missing half its rotation.

But Wisky had a "team" regardless of how many players it was missing.  We may have had more perceived talent but we don't have a "team" and it's become pretty obvious that we won't have a "team" this year.