TOM CREAN FIRED

[MikeRoberts 7,726]

Agree, but that's why I think Hartman actually is a leader on this team. He always plays hard, always gives full effort, plays a lot minutes, and I do remember him directing guys a lot last year. We definitely miss that. 

One thing I always thought weird about Yogi was why did it take him so long to develop as a leader? He seemed tailor made to be one of those natural leaders and he was a point guard that started four years. Yet, he seemed to struggle with it until the second half of his senior year. 

did the players like and respect him? Got the sense that he clashed with a few

Edit: also, hard for him to preach D when he didn't play much of it for 3 years and also hard for him to preach staying out of trouble when he was out at bars with a fake

[Old Friend 8,574]

Have been thinking a lot about what's wrong with IU Basketball at the moment, and rather than post a diatribe, I'll simply put thoughts in bullet form and let you guys fire away.

* Shotgun approach to recruiting rather than specific targets building rosters.  

*  Obvious lack of leadership on the floor, and few kids seem to understand or care where they are

*  Big wins when shots fall, bad losses when they don't

*  The formula (take away transition and make them guard for 15+ seconds) to beat Indiana is pretty well known.

* Recruiting kids that know the sport and have skills with the ball, but none that know the game or make anyone else better.  Nobody who really understands how to play(my issue with this is known, and I still say Crean's lack of focus on Indiana and the surrounding area is a huge mistake.  There's a reason most D1 powers recruit Indiana heavily.  Many have disagreed with me; I have yet to be convinced.  Crean spent 10x more on recruiting last year than Wisconsin did,and 12x more than Butler.  For what?  There have been, in the last decade, more than 150 D1 players from within 200 miles of the Bloomington campus. I still don't understand the national shotgun.  Like I said...fire away)

*  Inability to adjust when primary options aren't there

*  A brand of basketball many from this area just don't like watching.  Turnovers and bad shots are accepted as part of the game

*  A seemingly complete lack of discipline or accountability

*  Discipline problems off the floor a few years ago meant Crean was on a short leash in the eyes of many.  He had to win, and a Big Ten title last season helped....

*  But the simple fact is, he has been past the sweet 16 just once in 19 seasons, and people are starting to realize why

*  The bar has been lowered.  Expectations are not what they once were, and it's frustrating to many.  Crean seems to do....just enough,

*  Substitution patterns are confounding, as are the kids who seem to have the ball in their hands when it matters.

*  Lots of talk.  Little to back it up.  Lots of worry about who might go to the NBA, and it seems to trump success of Indiana's team right now.  

*  Whining.  See : Bryant.

*  We're used to defense around here, and this team flat does not guard.  

*  Finally, I think fans are seeing that our recruiting has really dropped off, and the next few years look bleak unless something changes, and tolerance for mediocrity is waning.  Yes, we won the Big Ten, but we all know it was in part due to a weak schedule.  The eyeball test is still pretty reliable.

 

One man's opinion.

 

[8bucks 7,104]

Agree, but that's why I think Hartman actually is a leader on this team. He always plays hard, always gives full effort, plays a lot minutes, and I do remember him directing guys a lot last year. We definitely miss that. 

One thing I always thought weird about Yogi was why did it take him so long to develop as a leader? He seemed tailor made to be one of those natural leaders and he was a point guard that started four years. Yet, he seemed to struggle with it until the second half of his senior year. 

I guess my primary point on Hartman is this, if he is getting in Blackman's ear about playing better D, or telling Bryant to go down and fight in the post, or telling Newkirk not to shoot unless wide open under the bucket - will they respect him as leader and listen?

[MikeRoberts 7,726]

Have been thinking a lot about what's wrong with IU Basketball at the moment, and rather than post a diatribe, I'll simply put thoughts in bullet form and let you guys fire away.

* Shotgun approach to recruiting rather than specific targets building rosters.  

*  Obvious lack of leadership on the floor, and few kids seem to understand or care where they are

*  Big wins when shots fall, bad losses when they don't

*  The formula (take away transition and make them guard for 15+ seconds) to beat Indiana is pretty well known.

* Recruiting kids that know the sport and have skills with the ball, but none that know the game or make anyone else better.  Nobody who really understands how to play(my issue with this is known, and I still say Crean's lack of focus on Indiana and the surrounding area is a huge mistake.  There's a reason most D1 powers recruit Indiana heavily.  Many have disagreed with me; I have yet to be convinced.  Crean spent 10x more on recruiting last year than Wisconsin did,and 12x more than Butler.  For what?  There have been, in the last decade, more than 150 D1 players from within 200 miles of the Bloomington campus. I still don't understand the national shotgun.  Like I said...fire away)

*  Inability to adjust when primary options aren't there

*  A brand of basketball many from this area just don't like watching.  Turnovers and bad shots are accepted as part of the game

*  A seemingly complete lack of discipline or accountability

*  Discipline problems off the floor a few years ago meant Crean was on a short leash in the eyes of many.  He had to win, and a Big Ten title last season helped....

*  But the simple fact is, he has been past the sweet 16 just once in 19 seasons, and people are starting to realize why

*  The bar has been lowered.  Expectations are not what they once were, and it's frustrating to many.  Crean seems to do....just enough,

*  Substitution patterns are confounding, as are the kids who seem to have the ball in their hands when it matters.

*  Lots of talk.  Little to back it up.  Lots of worry about who might go to the NBA, and it seems to trump success of Indiana's team right now.  

*  Whining.  See : Bryant.

*  We're used to defense around here, and this team flat does not guard.  

*  Finally, I think fans are seeing that our recruiting has really dropped off, and the next few years look bleak unless something changes, and tolerance for mediocrity is waning.  Yes, we won the Big Ten, but we all know it was in part due to a weak schedule.  The eyeball test is still pretty reliable.

 

One man's opinion.

 

agreed sans the comment about the bigten championship, schedule or no schedule it was great to see and never easy.

But, what did we do in the bigten tourney? Same as always under Crean. His bigten tourney record is disgusting to say the least and that negatively impacts our seeding and momentum going into the big dance

[conni66 7]

Butler and Georgetown look about the same as IU and Butler.. Worried about the game later in the day. Fire Crean! Yes he's a nice guy, team loves him. Has he ever really ever got the team to listen, no they're their all his friends. Just wish he had a little Bobby in him


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[mdn82 25,966]

I honestly don't get the comments on local recruiting and the 150+ D1 players in this state like they would make more of a difference. This isn't the romanticism view of 80s basketball anymore. AAU basketball has changed how players play and are coached. I watch plenty of local basketball and it is just a different game than 20 or 30 years ago. Plus, does anyone truly think it would matter what state they come from under Crean? Local recruiting is a preference, but does not lead to titles like 30 years ago. I want the best players possible that can be here 2-3 years which I also don't feel is possible anymore. They are getting promised one and done opportunities elsewhere. We need to commit to either one and done or four years. Perceptions of player development mean jack with the want for instant gratification.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[Trish 12,986]

Our schedule every year has been a joke for the most part. It worries me as we don't get challenged enough before the real season begins.

This years non conference schedule was probably the most challenging while Crean has been here. We need to quit playing these Division III like programs and start playing some more respectable programs. How are we going to get better playing Delaware State?




Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[recker222000 1,010]

agreed sans the comment about the bigten championship, schedule or no schedule it was great to see and never easy.

But, what did we do in the bigten tourney? Same as always under Crean. His bigten tourney record is disgusting to say the least and that negatively impacts our seeding and momentum going into the big dance

Crean is not changing at this point. What we have seen is what we will continue to get year after year.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

[Uspshoosier 51,585]

4 hours ago, Alford Bailey said:

Well, he drew up a heck of a play to beat Crean a couple years ago.

Groce also got beat by a combine 60 points in 2 games last year by a crean coached team 

[recker222000 1,010]

The guy on btt just said three times indiana will be just fine.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

[hsrtxp 1,400]

The guy on btt just said three times indiana will be just fine.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

His fine and our fine are two different things.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

[hoosierpap 14,300]

Groce also got beat by a combine 60 points in 2 games last year by a crean coached team 

Nevermind that, brother. Bad things are easier to obsess about.

[Old Friend 8,574]

1 hour ago, MikeRoberts said:

agreed sans the comment about the bigten championship, schedule or no schedule it was great to see and never easy.

But, what did we do in the bigten tourney? Same as always under Crean. His bigten tourney record is disgusting to say the least and that negatively impacts our seeding and momentum going into the big dance

Can agree with you...some.  We didn't play on the road at 3-4 teams in the top 5.  I think that matters.   Totally on board with your last comment.    I just fear we are now on a slope downward.  Crean has made it past the sweet 16 once in 19 seasons.  I don't think that's coincidental, and I think he has a ceiling....which I also think he's hit.

[Old Friend 8,574]

17 minutes ago, recker222000 said:

The guy on btt just said three times indiana will be just fine.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
 

Like I said, the bar has been lowered.   The eyeball test matters.  We may win by 40 today and look great doing it.  Doesn't change anything.

[8bucks 7,104]

The guy on btt just said three times indiana will be just fine.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

Well that makes us feel better.

[JSHoosier 21,784]

For me it's to the point the name on the front is the only thing that can keep me tuning in, and even that is slipping bad.  

I loathe Crean's BS streetball "offense" (I use that term loosely, it's terrible to watch at it's best).  I hate the over reliance on a low percentage shot.  I hate the disregard for fundamentals and overall acceptance of turnovers.  I hate the lack of discipline and the unending list of excuses.  I hate Bryant's relentless whining, he got a year older and his emotional maturity went back about 15 years.

[recker222000 1,010]

For me it's to the point the name on the front is the only thing that can keep me tuning in, and even that is slipping bad.  

I loathe Crean's BS streetball "offense" (I use that term loosely, it's terrible to watch at it's best).  I hate the over reliance on a low percentage shot.  I hate the disregard for fundamentals and overall acceptance of turnovers.  I hate the lack of discipline and the unending list of excuses.  I hate Bryant's relentless whining, he got a year older and his emotional maturity went back about 15 years.

That is crean ball for you.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

[Brass Cannon 25,176]

For the record I still want him fired

[Trish 12,986]

His seat is still hot. Illinois is pretty much an NAIA team this season.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[WayneFleekHoosier 50,075]

Like I predicted. That game didn't move the needle.

Next 5 game stretch is big. @maryland, @penn state @ Mich or MSU forget which


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners