2016 (F) Freddie McSwain Jr. to IU

[Class of '66 Old Fart 83,988]

We can't kid ourselves that the situation Pap described hasn't been going on for many years across the spectrum of NCAA schools.  It's so damn unfortunate that "Creaning" has seemingly become the universal word for that process.  If it's truly the kid's choice to leave for an opportunity elsewhere then I'm OK.  And every coach should be very honest and candid with their players at the end of the season on what it looks like for them next year in terms of playing time and opportunity.  But if it's a blatant kick out the door after the kid was actively recruited by the coaching staff then I feel quite differently especially the longer the kid has been a member of the team.  If the staff recognizes it made a mistake with a kid during his first year, then make the move after year 1. 

[Bobman1 2,909]

Any time frame on his commitment today?

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[hoosierpap 14,300]

Just now, Calipari said:

Any time frame on his commitment today?

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6:30 I think. I was assuming my time zone

[BGleas 7,880]

1 hour ago, hoosierpap said:

Troy has his foot out the door or IU wouldn't have offered. McSwain's offer is committable. The new NBA draft rules have certainly helped the college players, but they have complicated things for college coaches. I'm okay with that because it favors the "kid." An idealist would say you don't offer McSwain on the chance Troy comes back and, if he leaves like he is planning to, you go a man down. Everyone else sees the writing on the wall, offers McSwain and has some serious talks with the two Apple is getting at in the above post.

I want to be clear that Indiana isn't going to force someone to leave but they will be honest to the point where they paint a picture that encourages one to leave. I know people have a serious problem with that and may think I'm splitting hairs, but I have little issue with it. My biggest issue is that the finicky, querulous, IN HS coaches have an issue which impacts recruiting. I can't imagine catering to that group but I'll move on.

 These talks are like anti-recruiting, in a way. It's, "here's the reality of the situation. We want what's best for you. Here are other options, we've spoke with coaches..." I get some of you hate that idea, and I'm not saying you're wrong. I get your side of it, I think. I just see it different. I've had serious talks with some HS coaches about this. They tell me I can't identify with it because I'm not close enough to the "kids" and that, I guess, means I don't care. They tell me I value the university over the "kid." They tell me we're talking about lives, not wins and losses. I get it, again, I think. I'm telling them that IU is providing a path to a better situation, in their opinion. If the "kid" doesn't agree, he stays at IU. IU moves on and has a talk with the next "kid." 

All that makes me a heartless bastard, but, even from their (your) perspective, there are worse tragedies happening every 45 minutes within a two block radius of where I sit right now. And, from my perspective, it solves problems for all parties involved and helps/favors the "kid." Which is what I said forever ago in the first paragraph.

I agree with you, Pap. People like to say it's "forcing out" but that's a very black/white way of looking at situations that are really much more gray. This even happened at my level (D2) all the time. We'd have end of season 1-on-1 meetings with our coach, and there'd always be a guy or two each season that the coach just had an honest discussion with about playing time and their role. 

It wasnt a straight forward "see ya later, you're off the team". It's more a discussion on the players playing time expectations vs. what the reality is. Most guys think they should be playing more and are expecting a bigger role the upcoming season, when the reality is that the coach is telling them they're unlikely to see the court much again. Then it's a discussion of what does the player want to do, does he want to work his tail off and make this much of a time commitment only to ride the pine again, or if he wants playing time the coach will help him find a program/school that would be a better fit. 

At the level I played guys would sometimes just choose to stay at the school but not play so they could focus on academics/or having more fun, and some guys would transfer to D3 schools. At the IU level guys typically transfer to a lower level D1 school. But, this happens at every level. 

[MikeRoberts 6,921]

It is a grey area but unfortunately Crean earned that euphemism and he is going to have to earn the removal of that label. For several years he lead the bigten in transfers, that's not good. And to be clear, telling a kid that he isn't going to play and that he might want to look around is not that different than just pulling his scholarship. That kid is then left with no other option than to leave as coach has made up his mind about you and is making moves that do not include you. If the kid decides to stay he will likely stay at the end of the beach and walk ons will be given garbage time before you... I feel bad for some of the kids but I am also not in favor of giving scholarships to kids that had little to no chance to ever help either. We cannot afford to bring on more Aprils and Prillars again

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

It is a grey area but unfortunately Crean earned that euphemism and he is going to have to earn the removal of that label. For several years he lead the bigten in transfers, that's not good. And to be clear, telling a kid that he isn't going to play and that he might want to look around is not that different than just pulling his scholarship. That kid is then left with no other option than to leave as coach has made up his mind about you and is making moves that do not include you. If the kid decides to stay he will likely stay at the end of the beach and walk ons will be given garbage time before you... I feel bad for some of the kids but I am also not in favor of giving scholarships to kids that had little to no chance to ever help either. We cannot afford to bring on more Aprils and Prillars again

So does that mean we can start calling it Izzoing after this offseason? Creaning seams to be a term limited to within our own fanbase. Other B1G programs are right on par with the number of transfers we've had. A lot of our perception of Creaning comes from the Matt Roth situation, which Beilein has done twice in consecutive years now, and the Movement and 2014 classes which had a lot of bad eggs.

[hoosierpap 14,300]

36 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I agree with you, Pap. People like to say it's "forcing out" but that's a very black/white way of looking at situations that are really much more gray. This even happened at my level (D2) all the time. We'd have end of season 1-on-1 meetings with our coach, and there'd always be a guy or two each season that the coach just had an honest discussion with about playing time and their role. 

It wasnt a straight forward "see ya later, you're off the team". It's more a discussion on the players playing time expectations vs. what the reality is. Most guys think they should be playing more and are expecting a bigger role the upcoming season, when the reality is that the coach is telling them they're unlikely to see the court much again. Then it's a discussion of what does the player want to do, does he want to work his tail off and make this much of a time commitment only to ride the pine again, or if he wants playing time the coach will help him find a program/school that would be a better fit. 

At the level I played guys would sometimes just choose to stay at the school but not play so they could focus on academics/or having more fun, and some guys would transfer to D3 schools. At the IU level guys typically transfer to a lower level D1 school. But, this happens at every level. 

Exactly, and thank you. I get why fans have a problem with the whole thing. No offense to anyone, but it just seems they aren't informed about whats really happening and/or have some sort of agenda. The HS coaches is what is sorta confusing. They know the process but have some emotional issue that overrides reality. It's weird or I'm completely missing something they haven't been able to point out to me. 

 

And the Priller situation is pretty unique. Apply it to what Bgleas just wrote.

 

 

[ccgeneral 38,084]

1 hour ago, hoosierpap said:

6:30 I think. I was assuming my time zone

It's on Periscope to @ 6:30 ET.

‏@GoNeoshoHoops: April 24th 5:30pm @Mcswain_swain will decide between K-State & Indiana...watch it live right here via Periscope.

[Trish 11,505]

I rather have Troy stay than pick up a Hanner 2.0

Just my opinion but I don't see much in this kid besides Hops.

[hoosierpap 14,300]

39 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

It is a grey area but unfortunately Crean earned that euphemism and he is going to have to earn the removal of that label. For several years he lead the bigten in transfers, that's not good. And to be clear, telling a kid that he isn't going to play and that he might want to look around is not that different than just pulling his scholarship. That kid is then left with no other option than to leave as coach has made up his mind about you and is making moves that do not include you. If the kid decides to stay he will likely stay at the end of the beach and walk ons will be given garbage time before you... I feel bad for some of the kids but I am also not in favor of giving scholarships to kids that had little to no chance to ever help either. We cannot afford to bring on more Aprils and Prillars again

This is where we differ. How are those two things not different? He can stay if he wants, sit at the end of the bench, get his degree etc. He can find a better basketball option, in the staffs opinion (and probably reality). Or he can get better and earn minutes. He's got three options. The "kid" has the power.

 It isn't like a 50 year old man (Tom Crean) is going to hold a grudge against a 19 year old "kid" (Tim Priller) if he has earned minutes and will help the team. It just isn't.

[BGleas 7,880]

35 minutes ago, hoosierpap said:

Exactly, and thank you. I get why fans have a problem with the whole thing. No offense to anyone, but it just seems they aren't informed about whats really happening and/or have some sort of agenda. The HS coaches is what is sorta confusing. They know the process but have some emotional issue that overrides reality. It's weird or I'm completely missing something they haven't been able to point out to me. 

 

And the Priller situation is pretty unique. Apply it to what Bgleas just wrote.

 

 

I think the problem with the HS coach and/or the player is that nobody wants to hear or believe that they won't/shouldn't get playing time. You always think you're better than a kid or two getting time ahead of you, so even though the conversation may have been honest and above board, to the kid and his HS Coach, he still getting screwed or never got a real shot. 

[kingforaday 1]

2 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

We can't kid ourselves that the situation Pap described hasn't been going on for many years across the spectrum of NCAA schools.  It's so damn unfortunate that "Creaning" has seemingly become the universal word for that process.  If it's truly the kid's choice to leave for an opportunity elsewhere then I'm OK.  And every coach should be very honest and candid with their players at the end of the season on what it looks like for them next year in terms of playing time and opportunity.  But if it's a blatant kick out the door after the kid was actively recruited by the coaching staff then I feel quite differently especially the longer the kid has been a member of the team.  If the staff recognizes it made a mistake with a kid during his first year, then make the move after year 1. 

RMK did it all the time. This is nothing new or exclusive to CTC.

[hoosierpap 14,300]

1 hour ago, Treesh said:

I rather have Troy stay than pick up a Hanner 2.0

Just my opinion but I don't see much in this kid besides Hops.

The good news...you'll have plenty of games to evaluate that.

The bad news....you might be right and he doesn't help much.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,968]

The good news...you'll have plenty of games to evaluate that.

The bad news....you might be right and he doesn't help much.

If he is THAT athletic and committed to defense, he can be an asset. All teams need an energy/athletic/rebounding type. Guess we find out soon.

[yogisballin 2,297]

It's on Periscope to @ 6:30 ET.

‏@GoNeoshoHoops: April 24th 5:30pm @Mcswain_swain will decide between K-State & Indiana...watch it live right here via Periscope.

Where will he be located on map so I can find it?

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[LIHoosier 25,856]

https://www.periscope.tv/w/1djGXDYkNALGZ

[LIHoosier 25,856]

Welcome to IU!

The fist goes down again.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 83,988]

And so the drama begins.  Who will go to free up a scholly?      OOPS, interrupting this post - IU has scored 2 in the top of the 11th and lead MSU 6 - 4.

 

[Trish 11,505]

Interesting.....

 

 

It's been fun Priller.

[IUsince1980 315]

Not many replies/comments so far. Assumung this is an unpopular decision?