IU vs McNeest St. Post-Game Thread, aka MSB Highlight Reel

[bleedhoosier]

I think Bailey7878 is another member of the coaching staff checking in on us.

in that case..

Bailey, since you're relaying information back to coach tell him good job on the recent defensive hedge work and the recent wrinkle in offense that looks like some sort of high-low action..

Also, matt painter tracks post feeds, u should definitely scrap reflections and start the post feed tracking

[mdn82]

in that case..

Bailey, since you're relaying information back to coach tell him good job on the recent defensive hedge work and the recent wrinkle in offense that looks like some sort of high-low action..

Also, matt painter tracks post feeds, u should definitely scrap reflections and start the post feed tracking

Its deflections and every coach in America tracks them.

[Feathery]

Its deflections and every coach in America tracks them.

What does Crean considered a deflection? He rattles off these stats of guys and how many deflections they get, I'm always left thinking "we're we watching the same game?"

[Alford Bailey]

What does Crean considered a deflection? He rattles off these stats of guys and how many deflections they get, I'm always left thinking "we're we watching the same game?"

Must count the number of times the opponent gets an easy lay in and the ball "deflects" off the backboard into the basket.

[mdn82]

What does Crean considered a deflection? He rattles off these stats of guys and how many deflections they get, I'm always left thinking "we're we watching the same game?"

A deflection is exactly what the word implies? If someone gets a fingertip on it then it's a deflection. If it disrupts the offense it should be tracked.

[mdn82]

Must count the number of times the opponent gets an easy lay in and the ball "deflects" off the backboard into the basket.

Yes that would be a helpful intelligent way for every team to track their defense.

In keeping with the adult like discussion that we have started for our self-proclaimed smart fan base I should have instead followed up with "must be". My mistake. Those dumb fan bases don't know nothing about them there deflections and why they are useful.

[Str8Hoosiers]

Let's not kid ourselves.. All stats can be manipulated to the users benefit... Deflections can be a very useful stat, they can also be very misleading... A deflection that goes out of bounds doesn't change possession, a deflection can happen if the pass is tipped but still gets to it's intended target, or a shot gets partially blocked but still goes in...

[mdn82]

Let's not kid ourselves.. All stats can be manipulated to the users benefit... Deflections can be a very useful stat, they can also be very misleading... A deflection that goes out of bounds doesn't change possession, a deflection can happen if the pass is tipped but still gets to it's intended target, or a shot gets partially blocked but still goes in...

A deflection where the ball goes out of bounds does not disrupt the flow of the offense?

[8bucks]

Has Crean talked much about deflections this year? I have heard it only a few times. I would think prior to the last two games our deflections compared to VO et al would be down quite a bit

[Str8Hoosiers]

A deflection where the ball goes out of bounds does not disrupt the flow of the offense?

It does.. I didn't say it didn't... I didn't say deflections are pointless, I didn't say the stat wasn't important. However deflecting the ball or of bounds doesn't change possession, it doesn't put points on the board... Yes it makes them restart their offense but it doesn't stop them...
I'm all for tracking deflections. I'm just also not fooled when Crean talks about them.
Somebody mentioned tracking post feeds... We have a low post player who we "all" feel isn't properly utilized... But just like deflections, the stat post feeds can be very misleading... A post feed in a bad position, a post feed that doesn't lead to easy offense, etc..

MDN I'm not disagreeing with you, just stating my opinion about statistics... I work with numbers and statistics every day and I know that can say whatever the user wants them to say

[mdn82]

That same stat this board ridicule sis the same one that shows Crean how truly bad defensively we truly are. How inactive we truly are. Since we like to throw history around here to show how elite we are as a university I would like to add when something is ridiculed it typically means the side ridiculing does not fully understand it. Maybe instead of making fun of it we could use each other to understand it a little better. Or we just how we continually discuss how we are elite we are just stuck on traditional stats as a way to show the game hasn't changed in the 30 years since we last won a title.

[mdn82]

It does.. I didn't say it didn't... I didn't say deflections are pointless, I didn't say the stat wasn't important. However deflecting the ball or of bounds doesn't change possession, it doesn't put points on the board... Yes it makes them restart their offense but it doesn't stop them...
I'm all for tracking deflections. I'm just also not fooled when Crean talks about them.
Somebody mentioned tracking post feeds... We have a low post player who we "all" feel isn't properly utilized... But just like deflections, the stat post feeds can be very misleading... A post feed in a bad position, a post feed that doesn't lead to easy offense, etc..

MDN I'm not disagreeing with you, just stating my opinion about statistics... I work with numbers and statistics every day and I know that can say whatever the user wants them to say

I just hope this fan base is ready for the next coach to discuss deflections as well because it will happen. Any time you break rhythm it is useful IMO. I also believe the way Crean uses it is to show who is more active defensively. It is a stat that just reaffirms what we all see. Now it doesn't track breakdowns or missed switches which I think are equally important to discuss if we are discussing deflections. IMO those are what are killing this team.

[mdn82]

Has Crean talked much about deflections this year? I have heard it only a few times. I would think prior to the last two games our deflections compared to VO et al would be down quite a bit

They have been. He has not as much in years past. It's just something he adds that drives people nuts because they do not understand it.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Just to chime in here. I have no problems with tracking statistics of ALL things and deflections are just fine in my book. It encourages active hands and quick feet. Or it should. Statistics can be used as a motivator. I guarantee TB zero rebound statistic was used as a motivator, or at least it should have been.

My bigger problem is Crean appears to be infatuated with analytics and SEEMS to miss the forrest through the trees. If he didn't SEEM to miss so much other obvious problems people wouldn't care about his tracking of deflections. The whole "flow of the game" decisions have always baffled me. I think in the past, his predetermined game plans and substitution patterns were a part of that.

[mdn82]

That is fair and I would actually agree with that.

[Alford Bailey]

Believe Pitino was the first (or 1 of the first) coaches to start tracking deflections on his pressing UK teams. It snow balled from there throughout cbb. Pitino is a great defensive coach and the deflections stat actually means something within his scheme. IU fans have learned to laugh at deflections comments because we continually see guys overplay the passing lanes with no help side defense so we give up easy looks. If you deflect the ball out of bounds but give up an easy 2 on the inbounds was it beneficial?

[mdn82]

Believe Pitino was the first (or 1 of the first) coaches to start tracking deflections on his pressing UK teams. It snow balled from there throughout cbb. Pitino is a great defensive coach and the deflections stat actually means something within his scheme. IU fans have learned to laugh at deflections comments because we continually see guys overplay the passing lanes with no help side defense so we give up easy looks. If you deflect the ball out of bounds but give up an easy 2 on the inbounds was it beneficial?

Was it beneficial?  Yes.  It gave you time to reset your defense and break up the flow of the offense.  If they give up an easy 2 on the inbounds, you have bigger issues.  There are more than just deflections to tell how a defense is playing.  Deflections guage activeness.  That's it.  It does not track rotations.  It does track scheme to a degree.  It does not track ball screen defense.  I could keep going.  But activeness is a pretty decent percentage of defense.  If the big hedges, and the skip pass is deflected, that is ultimately 2 wins in the same set.  Only one will be tracked for this purpose.  The way he is utilizing this stat is to show his players whether or not they were active.  He feels he can coach the other areas of the defense.  Because the rest comes down to understanding where you need to be.  I don't think he can, but diminishing deflections is foolish IMO.  That is like saying, I would rather have VJ3 shooting the final 3 instead of Jordy Hulls because he scored more.  Screw stats.  I won't make decisions based on shooting percentages, or draw a play based on where Jordy has a better chance of hitting said 3, because those stats mean nothing.  Those are not the only stats he carries on defense.  I will guarantee that.  Those are just the most critical for what he wants to do.  Beyond that, it is up for debate.  But minimizing or mocking deflections because you don't like Crean is really foolish.  IMO

[incrediboy]

Not much to say about the game, obviously. 

 

But I was delighted to see Morgan and Burton back on the floor and not showing a lot of rust. We need bodies to throw out there come conference time.

 

Looking forward to the Notre Dame game to see if we've adjusted to the point we can play with big boys again.

[bleedhoosier]

Its deflections and every coach in America tracks them.

forgive my auto correct. Thanks for the lesson.

[mdn82]

forgive my auto correct. Thanks for the lesson.

No prob.