State of Recruiting/Do Rankings Matter?

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,386]

This is not a knock on RMK, as I think he is one of the best ever and I was lucky to be at IU during his glory years, but I disagree in regards to him not needing or caring about highly recruited players when he was coach. In 29 years at IU he was in 4 FF's winning, of course, three. The FF years were:

'75-76 - team was LOADED with talent with Buckner, Benson and May being among the most coveted recruits in the country.
'80-'81 - team was LOADED with 3/5 starters being McDonalds All Americans plus Wittman who played in the NBA for a decade.
'86'--'87 - in my opinion his best NC coaching job as IU's talent did not compare to other top tier teams.
'91-'92 - team was LOADED with 4 McDonalds All Americans, plus a Parade All American plus Calbert who was (even though many call him an unknown) top 50 player that was hurt his senior year in HS.

Yes, in every year you can find 5 stars that bombed and 3 stars that surprise but the odds of success are much higher, but not guaranteed, if you have class after class of highly rated recruits rather than hoping diamonds in the rough work out.


'

Another one "gets it". So glad to see this.

[Uspshoosier 45,687]

Another one "gets it". So glad to see this.

gets what exactly? not quite sure why you give a crap if someone else has a different opinion on a topic then you do. Hopefully in the future there will be a topic we see eye to eye on so I can "get it"

[DChoosier 8,460]

gets what exactly? not quite sure why you give a crap if someone else has a different opinion on a topic then you do. Hopefully in the future there will be a topic we see eye to eye on so I can "get it"

Not that hard for you to figure out. The topic is about whether or not rankings matter and some of us "get it" that getting highly ranked players helps even though many cling to thinking that in the past we won with one eyed, slow players that were mystically
turned into studs.

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

Recruiting top players AND player development help.  Have to have both for a successful program.

[DChoosier 8,460]

Recruiting top players AND player development help.  Have to have both for a successful program.

Agree 100%

[Alford Bailey 12,386]

And, all you guys who want the college game to look like the NBA guess what? You are gonna continually need NBA talented players to compete. So recruiting stars just gets more important. There is a reason Duke suddenly became a player in the one and done game. Coach K understands where the college game is headed.

[Uspshoosier 45,687]

Not that hard for you to figure out. The topic is about whether or not rankings matter and some of us "get it" that getting highly ranked players helps even though many cling to thinking that in the past we won with one eyed, slow players that were mystically
turned into studs.

just curious couldn't he of said that he agreed with your statement instead of using "get it" implying that anyone that has a different opinion on the subject doesn't get it (basically saying you don't know what you are talking about)   i have no problem with with fleeks opinion on the topic what i do have an issue with is the approach and little shots hidden in the message. 

At the end of the day, We all have the same goal (i hope) that we want our team back at the very top of the mountain, we all  just have different opinions at how we get there. 

[Uspshoosier 45,687]

And, all you guys who want the college game to look like the NBA guess what? You are gonna continually need NBA talented players to compete. So recruiting stars just gets more important. There is a reason Duke suddenly became a player in the one and done game. Coach K understands where the college game is headed.

Hopefully the college game never becomes like the NBA.  I have never really been a big fan of the Nba although i will watch it because it is still basketball i prefer the college game 100 times more.   College basketball is my favorite sport. there is something special about it for me that nba doesn't have.    Although i don't like the one and done rule, coach K showed why he is the greatest coach in college basketball history(sorry Bobby) he did something the Knight wouldn't or couldn't do and that is adjust to the landscape of college basketball.     For me it is refreashing to know in college that coaches can be sucessful with different approaches. While some coaches can use the one and done way.    I love the fact that Izzo can take a kid like denzel valentine (who had a 247 composite ranking of 105, composite ranking takes all recuiting services and averages them) and by his senior year is concidered one of the top players for the upcoming season.  Izzo also took a chance on a 2 star (rivals) transfer from cleveland st and transfer eron harris from west virginia (247 composite ranking of 236 and 11th in the state of Indiana). He also can bring in the 5 star talent like davis as well.   I'm thinking michigan st will be right in the thick of things come march.  For every Kentucky, Duke, and Kansas that can make a final four on talent alone(although they all have great coaching as well) there will always be the teams like  wisconsin, michigan st, whicita st, butler that can make a final four with great coaching and no one and dones.  

[Feathery 4,005]

I think ratings matter to an extent. I think you have to take style of play into consideration. Big Baby was a McD All American but he would have been terrible playing in a fast paced style game in and game out. Also, coaches need to figure out of the kid is mature enough to work hard and keep their nose clean. Jereme Richmond was a 5 star that couldn't stay out of trouble in high school or after and actually saw his star start to fall before getting to college.

On the flip side a lower rated recruit who is a great athlete and has a great work ethic may be a better fit. Oladipo and Rodney Carney are a couple of examples.

[The Baby Bull 280]

And, all you guys who want the college game to look like the NBA guess what? You are gonna continually need NBA talented players to compete. So recruiting stars just gets more important. There is a reason Duke suddenly became a player in the one and done game. Coach K understands where the college game is headed.

I understand where the game is headed too and I don't like it .

[The Baby Bull 280]

This is not a knock on RMK, as I think he is one of the best ever and I was lucky to be at IU during his glory years, but I disagree in regards to him not needing or caring about highly recruited players when he was coach. In 29 years at IU he was in 4 FF's winning, of course, three. The FF years were:
'75-76 - team was LOADED with talent with Buckner, Benson and May being among the most coveted recruits in the country.
'80-'81 - team was LOADED with 3/5 starters being McDonalds All Americans plus Wittman who played in the NBA for a decade.
'86'--'87 - in my opinion his best NC coaching job as IU's talent did not compare to other top tier teams.
'91-'92 - team was LOADED with 4 McDonalds All Americans, plus a Parade All American plus Calbert who was (even though many call him an unknown) top 50 player that was hurt his senior year in HS.
Yes, in every year you can find 5 stars that bombed and 3 stars that surprise but the odds of success are much higher, but not guaranteed, if you have class after class of highly rated recruits rather than hoping diamonds in the rough work out.
'

He had some pretty good players when he came there. Steve Downing for one.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Just to poke the bear, since I have no idea how this conversation went after my original posts...

 

When I made the original argument back on page 1, that I don't think class rank is predictive of a season alone. You can take the 247 recruiting class rankings for 2015 and look at the 25 teams who had better classes than us and see they are not currently doing better than we are.

 

That was literally all I was saying. Just because Miss State had a 20th ranked class and we had a 26th, doesn't mean they can beat Southern and we can't.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,386]

Just to poke the bear, since I have no idea how this conversation went after my original posts...

When I made the original argument back on page 1, that I don't think class rank is predictive of a season alone. You can take the 247 recruiting class rankings for 2015 and look at the 25 teams who had better classes than us and see they are not currently doing better than we are.

That was literally all I was saying. Just because Miss State had a 20th ranked class and we had a 26th, doesn't mean they can beat Southern and we can't.

you know well enough to know it takes 2-4 years to evaluate a recruiting class unless you are UK. Successive high rated recruited classes will generally make a successful team consistently.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

you know well enough to know it takes 2-4 years to evaluate a recruiting class unless you are UK. Successive high rated recruited classes will generally make a successful team consistently.

And I would never argue with that.

 

A single recruiting class is still not predictive. Sustained recruiting success? Well, yeah, duh. 

[Stuhoo 80,879]

A real part of the formula is when you add experience level. 

 

For instance, does a mid-4 star recruit like Troy or Rojo equate to a freshman five star recruit?

 

If it's a top five - five star like Okafor or Towns, no they don't. But if it's a top 20 five star recruit? Usually a player (at least per the empirical evidence at IU) will play abou to the level of a player about 10-15 spots above them with each extra year gained.

 

That equates to Troy, who was in the 60s, playing like a five star freshman as a junior, and Rojo playing like a low five star/high four star freshman.

 

DeRon Davis and Bruce Brown in the 30s? Hot damn, that makes for two really, really good sophomores.

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

I understand where the game is headed too and I don't like it .

 

Amen. Anybody else ever feel a little nostalgic and miss a few Sloanish screens and some precision motion offense??  Excuse me for that momentary old-school flashback! 
 

[Uspshoosier 45,687]

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye-on-college-basketball/25405785/oklahomas-lon-kruger-continues-to-be-one-of-basketballs-best-head-coaches
Interesting article on Lon Kruger and what he has done with his last 4 recruiting classes. Personally it is refreshing to see programs succeed while not having to recruit the one and done method. I'm not saying one way is better then the other I just thought some of you might enjoy this article

[Uspshoosier 45,687]

An interview with Jerry Meyer about recruiting. Wayne I thought you might enjoy it.
http://www.qtime.us/archive/2015/12/7/jerry-meyer-of-247-sports-the-new-formula-for-breaking-news-online

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,386]

Thanks for posting. Good read. Josh Jackson sounds amazing. Wonder if MSU lands him too.

[Alford Bailey 12,386]

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye-on-college-basketball/25405785/oklahomas-lon-kruger-continues-to-be-one-of-basketballs-best-head-coaches
Interesting article on Lon Kruger and what he has done with his last 4 recruiting classes. Personally it is refreshing to see programs succeed while not having to recruit the one and done method. I'm not saying one way is better then the other I just thought some of you might enjoy this article

Hard to believe Hield was so far down. That was a miss.