Indiana won't be Indiana until it wants to be Indiana

[jonz44 805]

So in his 2nd real year with a team, there weren't expectations? Ok.

In Creans second year there were no expectations. You are trying to dismiss his first three years and I'm not holding him responsible necessarily for his record but they do exist and he had no expectations. I didn't use the term "real", you did.

You originally made a derisive reference to Davis and I compared their situations. You referenced the fact that Crean basically lost the whole team versus what Davis had. You can't use the circumstances of those first few years to define how difficult Crean had it then ignore them and use his "real"second year.

Give credit to Davis. He got his group further than Crean did in his "real"second year. I just stated that I felt David had more pressure on him than Crean did...or has.

I get it. You like Crean. Facts? Not sure Crean is really any better than Davis.

Argue with logic like this? I'd hope not.

As far as Bo being gone by 2005? You know what he did his first four years at Wisky? Better than Crean in his first four "real"years at IU.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

In Creans second year there were no expectations. You are trying to dismiss his first three years and I'm not holding him responsible necessarily for his record but they do exist and he had no expectations. I didn't use the term "real", you did.

You originally made a derisive reference to Davis and I compared their situations. You referenced the fact that Crean basically lost the whole team versus what Davis had. You can't use the circumstances of those first few years to define how difficult Crean had it then ignore them and use his "real"second year.

Give credit to Davis. He got his group further than Crean did in his "real"second year. I just stated that I felt David had more pressure on him than Crean did...or has.

I get it. You like Crean. Facts? Not sure Crean is really any better than Davis.

Argue with logic like this? I'd hope not.

As far as Bo being gone by 2005? You know what he did his first four years at Wisky? Better than Crean in his first four "real"years at IU.

Every situation is a different set of circumstances; that's why the constant debate of all of this is meaningless..... We agree on one thing. His record will determine his future here. That's just how it works. To your dismay, IU is taking the long term approach. I can see the argument either way but obviously lean toward taking a chance on Crean.

I just figure someone should present a supportive and forward thinking picture of this staff and era since there are so many positives and meanwhile the 90% here can't get past their fantasy of JeNey Jackson and Bill Self laughing about how stupid Crean is.

[jonz44 805]

Every situation is a different set of circumstances; that's why the constant debate of all of this is meaningless..... We agree on one thing. His record will determine his future here. That's just how it works. To your dismay, IU is taking the long term approach. I can see the argument either way but obviously lean toward taking a chance on Crean.

I just figure someone should present a supportive and forward thinking picture of this staff and era since there are so many positives and meanwhile the 90% here can't get past their fantasy of JeNey Jackson and Bill Self laughing about how stupid Crean is.

I do believe that Crean has done some very positive things. I also believe that he's at a crossroads. At times he seems incredibly arrogant. The "I'm the smartest man in the room thing" and it's never his fault. It can't ALWAYS be the failure of the players to execute his game plan. Until a person sees a need to change they never will. There are some things he might want to consider changing. He's not been an overwhelming success yet. People can change. Maybe he needs to consider changing a little.

[coonhounds 8,696]

I do believe that Crean has done some very positive things. I also believe that he's at a crossroads. At times he seems incredibly arrogant. The "I'm the smartest man in the room thing" and it's never his fault. It can't ALWAYS be the failure of the players to execute his game plan. Until a person sees a need to change they never will. There are some things he might want to consider changing. He's not been an overwhelming success yet. People can change. Maybe he needs to consider changing a little.

I have hoped for at least four years he would change the perceived bad parts of his coaching with all the criticism he receives but now realize he isnt going to change and the only way he will b a success is if everyone is wrong and his way will eventually work out. I dont see it

[mdn82 25,467]

Your argument was that Sean Miller is in a great position in Arizona due to his proximity to California and being in a down conference.

Meanwhile, we are in a hotbed of talent and in a down year for our conference.

Why don't we have the same results?

Because he is only fighting a handful of lower perception schools for kids who want to stay closer to home. We have far more viable options around here with UL, OSU, UK, MSU, and UM. At the present he is fighting SDSU, and UCLA. Even if there are less top end kids he gets to pick and choose due to this. If the same kids were in the Midwest and his team were in the Midwest he would still get players but not all of what he gets.

[Basketball4iU 2,006]

If we only recruited Indiana, we wouldn't be anywhere close to a top 5 program. It comes in cycles.

I can't believe people complain about recruiting Indiana. The ONLY one we didn't get was Harris. Crean came in and got Hulls, got Zeller, Yogi, Blackmon. Remember we all complained about who was missed during the 2000s? Crean has gotten those players to IU!

And look what he has done with them in the Tournament...

[HoosierTrav 7,619]

Top 2 choices and having a realistic chance to land them are quite different though.

. These "unrealistic" hiring happen more than most think. I'm convinced that the biggest obstacle in bringing Stevens to Bloomington is Crean's contract. I don't think the Boston Celtics themselves are the biggest obstacle. I'd agree with you that the odds are certainly not very likely, BUT that didn't stop Alabama, Michigan, O$U in football and UK, KU, UNC in cbb. They went into talks with these coaches with a "not taking no for an answer" approach. The Brad Stevens to Indiana rumor is looking almost identical to the rumors of Harbaugh to UM and Saban to Bama, at the early stages anyways. I definitely think Crean is our coach for this season and the next but never underestimate the power of a an angry mob. The More pro Crean crowd argues that dismissing him without following with the homerun hire, does more harm than anything. I agree, that if that's how it turns out, it's a bad deal. It's like investing. High risk has the potential for major loss or major gain. My risk tolerance is very very high. I completely understand and respect those who have little tolerance for risk, but I think it's time for Indiana U. to push all of the chips in the middle of the table. It's that time IMO. I've been harsh on Crean the last 2 years and I shouldn't have been. My frustration should have been directed more towards the administration for not having the same thirst and sense of urgency that the fanbase has. Crean will always have his place here in Indiana. I just think, at this point, that many fans can see that his ceiling is below their expectations and are frustrated carrying on.

[Alford Bailey 12,280]

. These "unrealistic" hiring happen more than most think. I'm convinced that the biggest obstacle in bringing Stevens to Bloomington is Crean's contract. I don't think the Boston Celtics themselves are the biggest obstacle. I'd agree with you that the odds are certainly not very likely, BUT that didn't stop Alabama, Michigan, O$U in football and UK, KU, UNC in cbb. They went into talks with these coaches with a "not taking no for an answer" approach. The Brad Stevens to Indiana rumor is looking almost identical to the rumors of Harbaugh to UM and Saban to Bama, at the early stages anyways. I definitely think Crean is our coach for this season and the next but never underestimate the power of a an angry mob. The More pro Crean crowd argues that dismissing him without following with the homerun hire, does more harm than anything. I agree, that if that's how it turns out, it's a bad deal. It's like investing. High risk has the potential for major loss or major gain. My risk tolerance is very very high. I completely understand and respect those who have little tolerance for risk, but I think it's time for Indiana U. to push all of the chips in the middle of the table. It's that time IMO. I've been harsh on Crean the last 2 years and I shouldn't have been. My frustration should have been directed more towards the administration for not having the same thirst and sense of urgency that the fanbase has. Crean will always have his place here in Indiana. I just think, at this point, that many fans can see that his ceiling is below their expectations and are frustrated carrying on.

ALL IN!!! And if I win that Powerball tonite buyout money will no longer be an issue! :rtfm:

[CrossboneIU22 1,161]

On Crean's third real team, people wanted to run him out of town. It seems that four years is too long.

It's because those who really understand basketball saw the same deficiencies then that are being pointed out now and could see the writing on the wall even at an early time period in his tenure here. The type of deficiencies that are not easily fixed because they deal with playing style, coaching philosophies and mental approach to coaching a team and game planning. Being able to use what you have and adapting instead of only being able to complete when you have stars at every position.

[Hovadipo 53,167]

Iniana won't be InDiana until we fix this "d"efensive efficiency.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

And look what he has done with them in the Tournament...

He's achieved much more than any Indiana coach in this era?

[coonhounds 8,696]

He's achieved much more than any Indiana coach in this era?

omg lol. That is sad

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

It's because those who really understand basketball saw the same deficiencies then that are being pointed out now and could see the writing on the wall even at an early time period in his tenure here. The type of deficiencies that are not easily fixed because they deal with playing style, coaching philosophies and mental approach to coaching a team and game planning. Being able to use what you have and adapting instead of only being able to complete when you have stars at every position.

I'm not sure what you mean. He won a B1G title with Jordan Hulls as his two guard. I wouldn't say he has stars at every position... That team was great because they exhibited team basketball that hasn't been seen here in a long time.

I think it's reasonable to have concerns, but how can you realistically make statements about game planning and preparation as a total outsider? That I don't understand. This is the problem I have; we have fans who make brash statements that make everybody feel good like "look at us IU fans, we know the game and Crean is in over his head" yet in reality they couldn't be more wrong! Not all of the time but it happens over and over.

I don't know, guys. Too many legends swear by Crean for me to be as sure as you that he has no chance to win here. I wish I could be that sure and that Donavon would come here. But he isn't coming here, and Crean has done too much to make me think this program is going to be a destination for a lot of great basketball to come. Crean keeps getting exposed, and McDonald's All Americans keep coming through the door. It'll come together in time. IU would have had to have every kid pan out and stay to survive the early departures. They missed a few, and now we're young again. This isn't a reason to kick and scream until there's a new coach. This team is going to be a special one...

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

omg lol. That is sad

It truly is.

[Banksyrules 4,292]

He's achieved much more than any Indiana coach in this era?

My god u have an agenda. You lost all sense of objectivity by twisting facts and making idiotic and false statements. Are u a Fox News reporter? Your obviously out numbered by others who don't think Crean is an effective coach . And most of them were supporting crean for a while. I like the guy but he can't coach defense worth a /@&!, and is horrible at making adjustments. Wake up please and stop wasting everyone's time.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

My god u have an agenda. You lost all sense of objectivity by twisting facts and making idiotic and false statements. Are u a Fox News reporter? Your obviously out numbered by others who don't think Crean is an effective coach . And most of them were supporting crean for a while. I like the guy but he can't coach defense worth a /@&!, and is horrible at making adjustments. Wake up please and stop wasting everyone's time.

Thank you, we are all dumber for having read that.

What have I said that's false? He *has* achieved far more than any other coach we've had in this period.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

If I'm not allowed to support Coach Crean, mods please allow me to know...

[southernindianahoosier 422]

Thank you, we are all dumber for having read that.

What have I said that's false? He *has* achieved far more than any other coach we've had in this period.

It's not hard to have achieved more than Mike Davis, and Kelvin Sampson.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

It's not hard to have achieved more than Mike Davis, and Kelvin Sampson.

And Knight. Didn't say it was hard; said he's done far more than anyone else and we want him gone. For what? Just to give someone else a try?

He's earned more time. Period.

[southernindianahoosier 422]

And Knight. Didn't say it was hard; said he's done far more than anyone else and we want him gone. For what? Just to give someone else a try?

He's earned more time. Period.

I'm completely offended by you saying "and Knight" referencing that it's not hard to achieve more than him.

By age 43 Knight had 2 national Championships, an NIT championship, a Pan Am gold medal and a Olympic Gold Medal.

What is wrong with you? At age 48 Tom Crean has 1 final 4....?