Clear example of how Crean fails in recruiting.

[AZ Hoosier 8,040]

 

 

Maybe I'm misreading the complaints about never having a center, but the way I see it, we put two successful centers in the nba draft lottery two years in a row.  Am I misreading the constant complaints from the same complainers?

 

 

I am not complaining. I am stating facts. 

 

With Crean's "system", we don’t necessarily need a post up center. But we still need some bigs that can play well, defend, block/alter shots, etc. Guys like Holt (and hopefully at some point, Hanner).

 

My only knock is recruiting kids like Peter Jurkin, Bawa Minuru, Tijan Jobe, Guy-Marc Michel and Jeremiah April just because they’re tall. They have to have some basketball skills, and need to have a legitimate chance at playing and being successful. How many of these guys even played basketball before high school? You might be able to add Hanner to that group as well, in terms of his lack of early basketball exposure. Could that possible be a factor in his inconsistencies in his game today?

 

And to be fair, there are relatively few bigs who have legitimate skills. But for some reason, Crean really struggles to land these guys for our program. And in the meantime, he fills our roster with these big kids who will never see any real playing time.

 

And for what it’s worth, Zeller was not listed as a "center". In every roster list that I’ve seen, he was listed as a "forward". 

[Josh 12,736]

I am not complaining. I am stating facts. 

 

With Crean's "system", we don’t necessarily need a post up center. But we still need some bigs that can play well, defend, block/alter shots, etc. Guys like Holt (and hopefully at some point, Hanner).

 

My only knock is recruiting kids like Peter Jurkin, Bawa Minuru, Tijan Jobe and Jeremiah April just because they’re tall. They have to have some basketball skills, and need to have a legitimate chance at playing and being successful. How many of these guys even played basketball before high school? You might be able to add Hanner to that group as well, in terms of his lack of early basketball exposure. Could that possible be a factor in his inconsistencies in his game today?

 

And to be fair, there are relatively few bigs who have legitimate skills. But for some reason, Crean really struggles to land these guys for our program. And in the meantime, he fills our roster with these big kids who will never see any real playing time.

 

That's not a complaint?  Lol...ok....

[jonz44 810]

I am not complaining. I am stating facts.

With Crean's "system", we don’t necessarily need a post up center. But we still need some bigs that can play well, defend, block/alter shots, etc. Guys like Holt (and hopefully at some point, Hanner).

My only knock is recruiting kids like Peter Jurkin, Bawa Minuru, Tijan Jobe, Guy-Marc Michel and Jeremiah April just because they’re tall. They have to have some basketball skills, and need to have a legitimate chance at playing and being successful. How many of these guys even played basketball before high school? You might be able to add Hanner to that group as well, in terms of his lack of early basketball exposure. Could that possible be a factor in his inconsistencies in his game today?

And to be fair, there are relatively few bigs who have legitimate skills. But for some reason, Crean really struggles to land these guys for our program. And in the meantime, he fills our roster with these big kids who will never see any real playing time.

And for what it’s worth, Zeller was not listed as a "center". In every roster list that I’ve seen, he was listed as a "forward".

You almost get the feeling that Crean would like to have a team made up of wings and guards but he thinks he'd be ridiculed so he recruits a couple of token tall guys to satisfy critics.

I personally have no objection to not playing/recruiting "centers" because as you say there are so few of them that are very skilled...and if they are skilled they are gone after one year and I don't blame them.

I would like to see him recruit/play multiple guys who can play the four spot especially if one of them has the ability to step out and hit the three occasionally.

I think a four guard approach may win you some games during the regular season but when it comes to going deep in the tournament on a regular basis I don't see it happening.

[8bucks 6,562]

I am not a Crean lover, but we have lost Zeller, Vonleh and Fischer in the past 3 seasons (all of whom could be on our roster now). Players like that aren't simple to replace. The DD/Halloween incident wasn't exactly planned either. We're exceeding expectations by leaps and bounds, IMO, and we're better and tougher than last year (during which we would have lost the PSU and OSU games and maybe even the NU game).

I agree with you about the difficulty in replacing those three. However, Cody has been gone 2 years, Luke 1.5 years and Noah 1 year. Perhaps you could assume Luke plus HP is good enough but that plan did not work out and getting two guys this summer who cannot even get on the court in a position we need is frustrating.

I do not agree that we are exceeding expectations let alone by leaps and bounds. If you are basing that on the preseason picks those were largely that way due to a lack of confidence in our program.

Look at the roster and even the experience. No we are not senior laden but we have a McD pg who is a junior and has logged a ton of time. Several other 4 stars with a season or more under their belt and another McD kid in Blackman. We have the talent to finish top 4 in the BT and anything lower than that, in a down BT, is a disappointment.

[Alford Bailey 12,421]

Neither were "centers". Both were power forwards who got stuck playing center here. Don't misunderstand what I am saying - I was happy to have both Cody and Vonleh, but neither were "centers". You aren’t a center just because you're tall.

Thank you

[JSHoosier 20,639]

We can take the easy way out and blame Crean or realize our bigs are all hurt or transferred or both!

Noah--Transfer to NBA

Luke--Transfer closer to home

PJ-----Hurt and Transfer

Devin Davis---hurt

Hanner---------hurt

 

Thank goodness we picked up Holt late.  April and Priller appear to need more development---but I am ready for April to get some run. We need that big body down low.

 

Blows me away that April played against UL---but not against lesser competition. I hope he is not injured too!

This is an excuse as much as it is anything.  Every coach has to deal with injuries and defections, it's their job to win regardless.

 

This is year 7, we need to stop the excuse making.

[Josh 12,736]

I agree with you about the difficulty in replacing those three. However, Cody has been gone 2 years, Luke 1.5 years and Noah 1 year. Perhaps you could assume Luke plus HP is good enough but that plan did not work out and getting two guys this summer who cannot even get on the court in a position we need is frustrating.

I do not agree that we are exceeding expectations let alone by leaps and bounds. If you are basing that on the preseason picks those were largely that way due to a lack of confidence in our program.

Look at the roster and even the experience. No we are not senior laden but we have a McD pg who is a junior and has logged a ton of time. Several other 4 stars with a season or more under their belt and another McD kid in Blackman. We have the talent to finish top 4 in the BT and anything lower than that, in a down BT, is a disappointment.

 

 

This is an excuse as much as it is anything.  Every coach has to deal with injuries and defections, it's their job to win regardless.

 

This is year 7, we need to stop the excuse making.

I agree with both of these.  I mean, I'm so fed up with Crean's "coaching" that I have an avatar of who I want our new coach to be.  I just disagree with the premise that we never get good centers.  I like to tout the great ones we've had, rather than hating Coach so much that I can't be objective.

[JSHoosier 20,639]

I agree with both of these.  I mean, I'm so fed up with Crean's "coaching" that I have an avatar of who I want our new coach to be.  I just disagree with the premise that we never get good centers.  I like to tout the great ones we've had, rather than hating Coach so much that I can't be objective.

As far as that center debate goes, you're both right technically.

 

Neither Zeller nor Vonleh are really centers, they are both 4s that played the 5 here.  That's the way it is with Crean's system though, the 5 spot will usually be a 4 playing out of position.

 

Don't forget though that Crean recruited Garrett Green when he was transferring from LSU to try and have Zeller play his natural position.

[Uspshoosier 46,849]

Cody has center eligibility in my cbssports nba fantasy league meaning he as started at least 5 games in the nba at center

[Josh 12,736]

As far as that center debate goes, you're both right technically.

 

Neither Zeller nor Vonleh are really centers, they are both 4s that played the 5 here.  

 

Technically according to whom?  Both were centers here and in the League.

 

Cody has center eligibility in my cbssports nba fantasy league meaning he as started at least 5 games in the nba at center

 

This.

[BGleas 7,917]

Vonleh and Zeller are forwards in the NBA. While he's injured now, Al Jefferson is the Hornets center.

Technically according to whom?  Both were centers here and in the League.
 

 
This.

[Uspshoosier 46,849]

Nba.com charlotte Hornets website has cody listed as forward-center.

[schoosier 3,524]

Maybe I'm misreading the complaints about never having a center, but the way I see it, we put two successful centers in the nba draft lottery two years in a row.  Am I misreading the constant complaints from the same complainers?

It depends on what you value at Indiana. If you value getting 3 lottery players in the draft 2 years in a row as a successful program, then like you you're not complaining. If you value final fours and national championships and you have 3 lottery NBA draftees in back to back years combined with 6 1000 point career scorers and the best you can finish is a sweet 16 in one and not even qualifying for any tournament the other; not only are you complaining but you're looking for a new coach that can really accomplish with that kind of talent. To say that Crean has underachieved here at Indiana would be like me misreading the constant excuses from the same excuse makers.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,861]

New name on 2015 radar! I'm just going to throw this here for now.

@JucoRecruiting: Indiana is the latest school to show interest in Cullen Russo (6'9/F/2015) of New Mexico JC.

[GloryDays 5,941]

As far as that center debate goes, you're both right technically.

 

Neither Zeller nor Vonleh are really centers, they are both 4s that played the 5 here.  That's the way it is with Crean's system though, the 5 spot will usually be a 4 playing out of position.

 

Don't forget though that Crean recruited Garrett Green when he was transferring from LSU to try and have Zeller play his natural position.

 Was that the reason or was it to have a backup on the bench for Cody? I've seen nothing in seven years to suggest two bigs would've been on the floor the same time.I think Luke Fisher may have seen  that as well.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,861]

**Several schools are showing interest in former Oregon commit Ray Kasongo, a 6-9 power forward from College of Southern Idaho: Texas, UNLV, Florida State, Arizona State, Memphis, Oregon and St. John’s.

[biteoftheapple 4,115]

That list is very much as I would have suspected.

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

There is no such thing as a Center anymore in basketball. (Except for Roy Hibbert)

[GloryDays 5,941]

New name on 2015 radar! I'm just going to throw this here for now.

@JucoRecruiting: Indiana is the latest school to show interest in Cullen Russo (6'9/F/2015) of New Mexico JC.

From the site.

 Russo is a mobile and skilled forward that is at his best when facing up in the mid and high post and attacking off the bounce. He is a very good athlete who plays above the rim on both ends.

Sounds like Creans kind of guy but not really a low post player.

It also said Indiana is really hitting the juco circuit hard looking for bigs

.I think that's a good thing if they can find a serviceable big that way.I don't feel good about any of the high profile preps we're after. Hope I'm wrong and this is just insurance.

[Hovadipo 57,186]

There is no such thing as a Center anymore in basketball. (Except for Roy Hibbert)

There's a few more, but yeah generally the prototype center has gone by the wayside.