IU’s basketball culture is dead (and the case for why our next coach should be given 6+ seasons)

[AH1971]

1 minute ago, Hoosier987 said:

Crean was fired because it was time to move on. Yes..he had the # 1 recruit at UGA - a generational talent -  and still was abysmal at UGA. Yes, He had 2 top 4 draft picks at Indiana…and didn’t know how to beat a zone. 

Running off your most successful coach in 20 years who achieved real tangible results is a sure fire way to continue to stay irrelevant. We deserve everything we get going forward.

[AH1971]

3 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Crean was fired because it was time to move on. Yes..he had the # 1 recruit at UGA - a generational talent -  and still was abysmal at UGA. Yes, He had 2 top 4 draft picks at Indiana…and didn’t know how to beat a zone. All things considered, Im taking CDD all day over CTC…and I still don’t know if CDD is going to be a great coach but I do know what CTC is, and that’s not very good, honestly. 

 

3 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Crean was fired because it was time to move on. Yes..he had the # 1 recruit at UGA - a generational talent -  and still was abysmal at UGA. Yes, He had 2 top 4 draft picks at Indiana…and didn’t know how to beat a zone. All things considered, Im taking CDD all day over CTC…and I still don’t know if CDD is going to be a great coach but I do know what CTC is, and that’s not very good, honestly. 

Let me know when DeVries wins a B10 title, let alone two

[Hoosier987]

1 minute ago, AH1971 said:

Running off your most successful coach in 20 years who achieved real tangible results is a sure fire way to continue to stay irrelevant. We deserve everything we get going forward.

What are you talking about? He had damn near a decade here lol! Nobody ran him off. 

[BGleas]

Multiple things can be true at the same time. Tom Crean is a solid-to-good coach. But it was also time for the program to move on. It was the right move, the IU administration just botched the subsequent moves like it has for almost 25 years.

You don't achieve what Tom Crean has achieved without being a decent coach. He's been to a Final Four, an Elite 8, 4 sweet sixteens and has two outright regular season Big Ten Titles (in years when the Big Ten was really tough). You don't stumble upon that type of success.

He also has a long list of underrated guys that he's helped develop into legit NBA players, while also having the really hyped guys he's put in the NBA.

He's not great, but he can coach. 

But again, it was definitely the right move to go in another direction, the administration just screwed it up, like they typically do. 

[AH1971]

8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Multiple things can be true at the same time. Tom Crean is a solid-to-good coach. But it was also time for the program to move on. It was the right move, the IU administration just botched the subsequent moves like it has for almost 25 years.

You don't achieve what Tom Crean has achieved without being a decent coach. He's been to a Final Four, an Elite 8, 4 sweet sixteens and has two outright regular season Big Ten Titles (in years when the Big Ten was really tough). You don't stumble upon that type of success.

He also has a long list of underrated guys that he's helped develop into legit NBA players, while also having the really hyped guys he's put in the NBA.

He's not great, but he can coach. 

But again, it was definitely the right move to go in another direction, the administration just screwed it up, like they typically do. 

You’re more level headed than most. If OG doesn’t blow out his knee and IU subsequently makes the tournament like they would have, not even the looniest of fans are calling for his head. Bottom line is that the IU brass never forgave Crean for 2013 and 2016 finally gave them an out. Not unexpected with a delusional bunch.

[Magnanimous]

We’ve been past the SW16 once since 1993…I’m not saying we should’ve kept Crean, but sorry, this goes beyond just hiring bad coaches. Any program with our resources and focused interest in this sport should fall @$$ backwards into an E8 at least once a decade…

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

You’re more level headed than most. If OG doesn’t blow out his knee and IU subsequently makes the tournament like they would have, not even the looniest of fans are calling for his head. Bottom line is that the IU brass never forgave Crean for 2013 and 2016 finally gave them an out. Not unexpected with a delusional bunch.

It was more than just the OG injury though. That definitely hurt, no debating that. 

But that team had lost to IPW, to Butler, at home to Nebraska, all before the OG injury. 

The team still had Thomas Bryant, JBJ, a developing and future NBA player in Juwan Morgan, Robert Johnson, etc. 

I don't expect an Elite 8 or Final Four without OG, but still should have been a tournament team. After the strong start, that team wasn't playing great even with OG. 

Then add it to recruiting slipping (missing all of the top Indiana players in a strong class that season), and it was time to go. 

The administration just screwed up the following decade about as bad as it could. 

[Jeff Flabjohns]

Crean built the program to a place where it could then judge his performance by tournament success. Kudos to him for that. He had achieved his ceiling here. 
They missed on the subsequent hires.

We just won a banner in football. Eventually, it’s about championships. But we’ve been set so far back after Woodson that all this “level-headed” fanbase wants to do is walk before running, aka just making tourneys again. 

[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, Five Prime said:

And yet, after an 18-14 first season (literally IUs average season over the last 2 decades), some fans are ready to move on...I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said, but the fan base will not be patient.

AND... how can we trust IUs leadership to get the next hire right? 

Ready to move on because there have been some glaring admissions made.  Like not knowing the rough and tumble in the Big10.   He gets points for admitting it, and hopefully changing his approach.  But WTF, how does a multi million dollar coach miss that?

[Asha’man]

2 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Ready to move on because there have been some glaring admissions made.  Like not knowing the rough and tumble in the Big10.   He gets points for admitting it, and hopefully changing his approach.  But WTF, how does a multi million dollar coach miss that?

Ask Dusty May, because he missed that as well going into year 1. And it’s not that people don’t think it’s physical. They just underestimate how physical it is until they go through it. Let’s see how well they adjust this portal season. If it’s a flame out next season, then a lot of people will be there with you, pitchfork in hand. 

[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, Five Prime said:

So is that because Devries isnt a good coach but all those other guys are? 

No it’s because of our fans, duh. 

[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, AH1971 said:

Again, relevancy to his tenure at IU?

Then include his whole tenure.  

[Golfman25]

38 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

You’re more level headed than most. If OG doesn’t blow out his knee and IU subsequently makes the tournament like they would have, not even the looniest of fans are calling for his head. Bottom line is that the IU brass never forgave Crean for 2013 and 2016 finally gave them an out. Not unexpected with a delusional bunch.

I thought it was the fans?  Now you’re saying it was the “IU Brass.”   Who’s in charge.

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

Just now, Golfman25 said:

  Who’s in charge.

No, he's on first!

[Golfman25]

9 minutes ago, Asha’man said:

Ask Dusty May, because he missed that as well going into year 1. And it’s not that people don’t think it’s physical. They just underestimate how physical it is until they go through it. Let’s see how well they adjust this portal season. If it’s a flame out next season, then a lot of people will be there with you, pitchfork in hand. 

No he didn’t.  He may have said it, but he built a team able to compete and did so.  He just upped the anti this year.  Probably pulls a Cig and wins the whole thing year 2.  

[Jeff Flabjohns]

2 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

I thought it was the fans?  Now you’re saying it was the “IU Brass.”   Who’s in charge.

He’s like Scarface, firing indiscriminately as he’s going down for good. Everyone’s at fault except the coach!!!

[Uspshoosier]

24 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

No he didn’t.  He may have said it, but he built a team able to compete and did so

He did say it multiple times.   In the Journey episodes and articles with the Detroit press pointed out how big of adjustment it was to deal with the league especially the officiating from game to game.  Said him and his staff would have to figure it out.   He figured it out but he pointed out multiple times over the first year the B1G was a different animal.    Figuring it out while winning a B1G tourney and sweet 16 is easier to swallow however doesn’t mean he didn’t feel their was an adjustment to the B1G 

[Hoosier987]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

It was more than just the OG injury though. That definitely hurt, no debating that. 

But that team had lost to IPW, to Butler, at home to Nebraska, all before the OG injury. 

The team still had Thomas Bryant, JBJ, a developing and future NBA player in Juwan Morgan, Robert Johnson, etc. 

I don't expect an Elite 8 or Final Four without OG, but still should have been a tournament team. After the strong start, that team wasn't playing great even with OG. 

Then add it to recruiting slipping (missing all of the top Indiana players in a strong class that season), and it was time to go. 

The administration just screwed up the following decade about as bad as it could. 

I was about to say, the OG argument is pretty weak at best. We had already lost a half dozen games including to IPFW and were below .500 in conference when he got hurt. All by mid January. 

[Magnanimous]

5 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

I was about to say, the OG argument is pretty weak at best. We had already lost a half dozen games including to IPFW and were below .500 in conference when he got hurt. All by mid January. 

That team blows my mind. We beat Kansas and UNC that year (two one seeds), and still missed the NCAAT.

[AZ Hoosier]

2 hours ago, AH1971 said:

Running off your most successful coach in 20 years who achieved real tangible results is a sure fire way to continue to stay irrelevant. We deserve everything we get going forward.

If your "most successful" coach can't coach against a zone defense or get past the Sweet 16 with the #2 and #4 players in the NBA draft, I'd argue that your "most successful" guy is not good enough.

But, yeah, keep arguing.