Do Not Fire Mike Woodson

[go iu bb 5,285]

So the argument to keep Woodson seems to be that while he might not be that good, we probably won't do better so should just be happy with mediocrity. Cool.

[Schreckbagger 617]

So the argument to keep Woodson seems to be that while he might not be that good, we probably won't do better so should just be happy with mediocrity. Cool.

The arguement is that IU is statistically unlikely to hire another home run coach. However, the chances are much greater to hire a worse coach according to IU history. Cooler yet. Hope that helped.

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[AH1971 1,308]

34 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

So the argument to keep Woodson seems to be that while he might not be that good, we probably won't do better so should just be happy with mediocrity. Cool.

Or...and hear me out....you don't fire a coach every 2-3 seasons and actually let him try and build something. Novel concept I know. 

[Schreckbagger 617]

Or...and hear me out....you don't fire a coach every 2-3 seasons and actually let him try and build something. Novel concept I know. 

Amen

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[PartyintheVillas 36]

1 hour ago, AH1971 said:

Or...and hear me out....you don't fire a coach every 2-3 seasons and actually let him try and build something. Novel concept I know. 

Mike Davis got 6 seasons.

Sampson got 1.5, but fired for reasons other than not winning enough

Crean got 9 seasons.

Miller got 5 seasons.

Woodson is currently preparing for his 4th.

Coaches are not being fired every 2-3 years. Coaches are being given opportunities to build a consistent winner, and none have so far since the year 2000.

Edited August 12 by PartyintheVillas

[go iu bb 5,285]

3 minutes ago, PartyintheVillas said:

Mike Davis got 6 seasons.

Sampson got 1.5, but fired for reasons other than not winning enough

Crean got 9 seasons.

Miller got 5 seasons.

Woodson is currently preparing for his 4th.

Coaches are not being fired every 2-3 years. Coaches are being given opportunities to build a consistent winner, and none have so far since the year 2000. In fact, the final seasons for Davis, Sampson, Crean, and Miller resulted in 2 NCAA tournament appearances, a loss in the second round by a Mike Davis team and a loss in the first round by a Sampson/Dakich team.

Miller "only" got 4 seasons but your point still stands. 

[AH1971 1,308]

1 minute ago, PartyintheVillas said:

Mike Davis got 6 seasons.

Sampson got 1.5, but fired for reasons other than not winning enough

Crean got 9 seasons.

Miller got 5 seasons.

Woodson is currently preparing for his 4th.

Miller got 4 seasons and if it were up to the large majority of this board, Woodson would have been gone after this past season. IU's had five different coaches this century, running a coach off at a rate of just under 5 seasons isn't a recipe for success. No way to ever find continuity when you're constantly turning over.

[TTT 825]

My estimation roughly $40,000,000 to $50,000,000 million in head coach salaries only;  for century 21…sounds like a good gig if you can get it.

[bird4par 193]

4 hours ago, go iu bb said:

So the argument to keep Woodson seems to be that while he might not be that good, we probably won't do better so should just be happy with mediocrity. Cool.

IMO - this is way above the head coach. The IU administration has been pretty much a joke.  

[Schreckbagger 617]

Fun Fact:

A 26-9 season would push CMW near the .700 W/L percent.

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[Schreckbagger 617]

Miller got 4 seasons and if it were up to the large majority of this board, Woodson would have been gone after this past season. IU's had five different coaches this century, running a coach off at a rate of just under 5 seasons isn't a recipe for success. No way to ever find continuity when you're constantly turning over.

Least us not forget, the guy who won 3 National Championships had 29 seasons at IU.

And, can't forget the 24 years of Branch at IU that gave us 2 NC's.

What a coincidence huh.....

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[go iu bb 5,285]

1 hour ago, Schreckbagger said:

Least us not forget, the guy who won 3 National Championships had 29 seasons at IU.

And, can't forget the 24 years of Branch at IU that gave us 2 NC's.

What a coincidence huh.....

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Winning coaches get to stay a long time? How shocking. 

Woodson is nowhere close to being as good as either of those two. Being better than Archie Miller doesn't automatically make him the next Knight or McCracken.

[LamarCheeks 17,340]

1 hour ago, Schreckbagger said:

Least us not forget, the guy who won 3 National Championships had 29 seasons at IU.

And, can't forget the 24 years of Branch at IU that gave us 2 NC's.

What a coincidence huh.....

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Some context ... 

RMK went to the Final Four in his second season, the Elite Eight in his fourth and won a natty in his fifth. 

McCracken won a natty in his second year and was  87-17 (.840) over his first five seasons. 

[Schreckbagger 617]

Some context ...  

RMK went to the Final Four in his second season, the Elite Eight in his fourth and won a natty in his fifth. 

McCracken won a natty in his second year and was  87-17 (.840) over his first five seasons. 

 

More content.....Mike Davis went to a Championship game in year one. Tom Creans team was ranked #1 for a good part of one season. 

Neither have a better win percentage than CMW.

 

Both were fired.

 

McCracken had 3 loosing seasons in 24 yrs at IU. He didn't get fired.

 

RMK's NC team at 32-0 was followed up by his next team that went 14-13. He didn't get fired at that time either.

 

Hope that helps....

 

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[LamarCheeks 17,340]

16 minutes ago, Schreckbagger said:

More content.....Mike Davis went to a Championship game in year one. Tom Creans team was ranked #1 for a good part of one season.

 

Neither have a better win percentage than CMW.

 

Both were fired.

 

McCracken had 3 loosing seasons in 24 yrs at IU. He didn't get fired.

 

RMK's NC team at 32-0 was followed up by his next team that went 14-13. He didn't get fired either.

 

Hope that helps....

 

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No need to get all huffy. 

I was just pointing out that RMK and McCracken were very successful in their first five seasons. Comparing their tenures to Archie and Woody is sorta like the old apples-oranges cliche. 

And it would help if I knew what a loosing season was ... 

[TTT 825]

Accounting for inflation/cost of living….I wonder how salaries, support staff including cost when comparing Branch McCracken and Bob Knight to the 21st century IU men’s basketball coaches and staff.

[Schreckbagger 617]

No need to get all huffy. 

I was just pointing out that RMK and McCracken were very successful in their first five seasons. Comparing their tenures to Archie and Woody is sorta like the old apples-oranges cliche. 

And it would help if I knew what a loosing season was ... 

Huffy, nah. Just adding content that seemed to be misplaced. Each season is, in itself, independent of the others because the variables change. Minimize the exceptions that your able, win more.

Since 1901, IU has had 30 different basketball coaches.
I'd say that process isn't stable, and in fact, is out of control.

Always looking for the next shiney isn't always equal to success.

Statistical Process Control has always been fun.


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[PartyintheVillas 36]

22 hours ago, AH1971 said:

Miller got 4 seasons and if it were up to the large majority of this board, Woodson would have been gone after this past season. IU's had five different coaches this century, running a coach off at a rate of just under 5 seasons isn't a recipe for success. No way to ever find continuity when you're constantly turning over.

Yep, typo on the 5 but still, Archie Miller wasn't building anything and it was obvious. Mike Davis was not building anything and it was obvious. Tom Crean was constantly building, then having to rebuild a bad situation of his own making all while turning off recruits at the end with a Sweet 16 ceiling. So, are you saying that if we kept Mike Davis or Archie Miller longer then Indiana basketball would be better? 

Edited August 13 by PartyintheVillas
addition

[Hoosierfan2017 20,343]

Mike Woodson is 66 years old, and an old 66 at that. Bob Knight was 33 years old the summer before his 4th season at IU. Literally half as old.

Even if you ignore the Grand Canyon sized gap between the two coaches’ first three years at IU (1 tournament win and a 31-29 conference record for one of them vs. a final four appearance, 2 conference titles, and a 32-10 conference record for the other), the guy half the age of the other guy is going to get more leash because there’s a chance of him being your coach for the next 30 years. Mike Woodson has one foot through the retirement door at this stage. 

[AH1971 1,308]

1 minute ago, PartyintheVillas said:

Yep, typo on the 5 but still, Archie Miller wasn't building anything and it was obvious. Mike Davis was not building anything and it was obvious. Tom Crean was constantly building, then having to rebuild a bad situation of his own making all while turning off recruits at the end with a Sweet 16 ceiling. So, are you saying that if we kept Mike Davis or Archie Miller longer then Indiana basketball would be better? 

I'm saying no program who is constantly shuffling coaches every 4-5 seasons over an extended period of time is going to have any kind of sustained success.