President Whitten - 2024 Faculty No Vote

[HoosierHoopster 6,310]

20 minutes ago, ap2345 said:

What is the story here? I don't need real details or anything but I'm really just curious about what's happened and what's next.

There are linked articles in the posts above.

As mentioned I don't want to go into what I know on a message board, but here is some additional published info from the H-T reflecting lack of transparency, lack of appropriate (including required) inclusion of faculty in certain decision-making and governance policies:

On Mar. 27, more than 200 faculty members signed a petition calling for a special meeting to hold a vote of no confidence against Docherty, Shrivastav and Whitten. The petition centered around the administration “encroaching on both academic freedom and shared governance.”

Key examples included Docherty’s suspension of professor Abdulkader Sinno without a hearing from the Faculty Misconduct Review Committee, the administration’s cancellation of Palestinian artist Samia Halaby’s exhibit at the Eskenazi Museum of Art, the administration’s handling of controversial Senate Bill 202 (which restructured the tenure process at Indiana public universities), their rescinded attempt to sever the Kinsey Institute into a 501(c)(3) nonprofit and their refusal to publicly defend faculty member Dr. Caitlin Bernard against Indiana Attorney General Todd Rokita after he questioned her medical credentials for performing an abortion for an Ohio rape victim.

Sinno said the administration’s flippancy toward shared governance policies demonstrates the current administration is unfit to lead a major research university.

“I’ve had disagreements with administrations in the past, but we all, them and I, respected policies,” Sinno said. “This administration has no respect for policies or the values of Indiana University.”

 

[IUCrazy2 2,187]

18 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

There are linked articles in the posts above.

As mentioned I don't want to go into what I know on a message board, but here is some additional published info from the H-T reflecting lack of transparency, lack of appropriate (including required) inclusion of faculty in certain decision-making and governance policies:

On Mar. 27, more than 200 faculty members signed a petition calling for a special meeting to hold a vote of no confidence against Docherty, Shrivastav and Whitten. The petition centered around the administration “encroaching on both academic freedom and shared governance.”

Key examples included Docherty’s suspension of professor Abdulkader Sinno without a hearing from the Faculty Misconduct Review Committee, the administration’s cancellation of Palestinian artist Samia Halaby’s exhibit at the Eskenazi Museum of Art, the administration’s handling of controversial Senate Bill 202 (which restructured the tenure process at Indiana public universities), their rescinded attempt to sever the Kinsey Institute into a 501(c)(3) nonprofit and their refusal to publicly defend faculty member Dr. Caitlin Bernard against Indiana Attorney General Todd Rokita after he questioned her medical credentials for performing an abortion for an Ohio rape victim.

Sinno said the administration’s flippancy toward shared governance policies demonstrates the current administration is unfit to lead a major research university.

“I’ve had disagreements with administrations in the past, but we all, them and I, respected policies,” Sinno said. “This administration has no respect for policies or the values of Indiana University.”

 

Tl/Dr:  The faculty is incapable of reading the room which makes their input a net negative on those topics.

 

Perhaps having the faculty too involved in the administrative side of things is part of the issue.  Let's just get down to brass tacks.  Bloomington and the Indiana faculty likely hold views closer to San Francisco than (pick almost anywhere in this state).  Whitten has to balance the idea that a whole bunch of people in this state aren't super interested in funding some of the absolute nonsense that passes as "scholarship" and "academic freedom" these days.  For each of those items, it was better for the school to not let the faculty be involved.

The professor lied about using facilities to promote a group that is out of step with the sensibilities of this state.  It also happened at a time where Palestinian support movements on campus were basically nothing but anti-semitic rants that were harassing Jewish students and celebrating the televised murder of Israeli civilians.  There was a reason he lied about the event and the lie meant he should be punished.

Related to that, having a person with similar views at a similar time displaying art in the Eskanazi art center was probably a good idea to 86 as well.  The background of the multimillion dollar donor Eskanazis would lead one to believe that they would probably not appreciate someone who basically promotes killing the jews having their art displayed all over a center with their name on it.  The donor wins over the lefty faculty on that.  Sorry.

Kinsey is a blight on the school.  We can pull Jordan's name off of everything because of his views but still support the extremely questionable stuff Kinsey did with children.  ---- that guy and everything to do with him. 

On the last, she did go and oppose the bill.  She doesn't have a vote in government though so don't know what they expected.  Those people are her boss and hold the purse strings so again, being more militant like the faculty wanted is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Furthermore, the fact that the University is so wildly out of step with the rest of the state on a whole host of topics is a big reason why people are supportive of bills like that in the first place.  As someone who is politically on the other side of what is the norm in Bloomington and the school in particular, it gets noticed how hostile they are to people who have opinions like me, which are the dominate opinions in this state at the moment.  I think they waste money on stupid BS and it is a disservice to educating people in this state.  You get the perception that the school looks down its nose at the state it is in and that is part of what chases kids out of state after spending 4 years there.

[Home Jersey 5,530]

Lol

[AKHoosier 6,610]

12 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Tl/Dr:  The faculty is incapable of reading the room which makes their input a net negative on those topics.

 

Perhaps having the faculty too involved in the administrative side of things is part of the issue.  Let's just get down to brass tacks.  Bloomington and the Indiana faculty likely hold views closer to San Francisco than (pick almost anywhere in this state).  Whitten has to balance the idea that a whole bunch of people in this state aren't super interested in funding some of the absolute nonsense that passes as "scholarship" and "academic freedom" these days.  For each of those items, it was better for the school to not let the faculty be involved.

The professor lied about using facilities to promote a group that is out of step with the sensibilities of this state.  It also happened at a time where Palestinian support movements on campus were basically nothing but anti-semitic rants that were harassing Jewish students and celebrating the televised murder of Israeli civilians.  There was a reason he lied about the event and the lie meant he should be punished.

Related to that, having a person with similar views at a similar time displaying art in the Eskanazi art center was probably a good idea to 86 as well.  The background of the multimillion dollar donor Eskanazis would lead one to believe that they would probably not appreciate someone who basically promotes killing the jews having their art displayed all over a center with their name on it.  The donor wins over the lefty faculty on that.  Sorry.

Kinsey is a blight on the school.  We can pull Jordan's name off of everything because of his views but still support the extremely questionable stuff Kinsey did with children.  ---- that guy and everything to do with him. 

On the last, she did go and oppose the bill.  She doesn't have a vote in government though so don't know what they expected.  Those people are her boss and hold the purse strings so again, being more militant like the faculty wanted is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Furthermore, the fact that the University is so wildly out of step with the rest of the state on a whole host of topics is a big reason why people are supportive of bills like that in the first place.  As someone who is politically on the other side of what is the norm in Bloomington and the school in particular, it gets noticed how hostile they are to people who have opinions like me, which are the dominate opinions in this state at the moment.  I think they waste money on stupid BS and it is a disservice to educating people in this state.  You get the perception that the school looks down its nose at the state it is in and that is part of what chases kids out of state after spending 4 years there.

Very well said. 

If the IDS article is any indication of the rift between faculty and Whitten, it only makes it sound like the IU faculty are more interested in pushing their political views than educating college students. 

Only confirms my support of Whitten. 

[Banksyrules 4,312]

1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Tl/Dr:  The faculty is incapable of reading the room which makes their input a net negative on those topics.

 

Perhaps having the faculty too involved in the administrative side of things is part of the issue.  Let's just get down to brass tacks.  Bloomington and the Indiana faculty likely hold views closer to San Francisco than (pick almost anywhere in this state).  Whitten has to balance the idea that a whole bunch of people in this state aren't super interested in funding some of the absolute nonsense that passes as "scholarship" and "academic freedom" these days.  For each of those items, it was better for the school to not let the faculty be involved.

The professor lied about using facilities to promote a group that is out of step with the sensibilities of this state.  It also happened at a time where Palestinian support movements on campus were basically nothing but anti-semitic rants that were harassing Jewish students and celebrating the televised murder of Israeli civilians.  There was a reason he lied about the event and the lie meant he should be punished.

Related to that, having a person with similar views at a similar time displaying art in the Eskanazi art center was probably a good idea to 86 as well.  The background of the multimillion dollar donor Eskanazis would lead one to believe that they would probably not appreciate someone who basically promotes killing the jews having their art displayed all over a center with their name on it.  The donor wins over the lefty faculty on that.  Sorry.

Kinsey is a blight on the school.  We can pull Jordan's name off of everything because of his views but still support the extremely questionable stuff Kinsey did with children.  ---- that guy and everything to do with him. 

On the last, she did go and oppose the bill.  She doesn't have a vote in government though so don't know what they expected.  Those people are her boss and hold the purse strings so again, being more militant like the faculty wanted is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Furthermore, the fact that the University is so wildly out of step with the rest of the state on a whole host of topics is a big reason why people are supportive of bills like that in the first place.  As someone who is politically on the other side of what is the norm in Bloomington and the school in particular, it gets noticed how hostile they are to people who have opinions like me, which are the dominate opinions in this state at the moment.  I think they waste money on stupid BS and it is a disservice to educating people in this state.  You get the perception that the school looks down its nose at the state it is in and that is part of what chases kids out of state after spending 4 years there.

 

Are u making this about yourself? Look the issues the professors stated down mean squat to me because they’re not issues that greatly impact the whole but it’s important that diversified points of view should be expressed. It’s how we get better. We gather the information and hopefully through study and humility we use the data or not to better ourselves. Now I agree that the issues stated above should really not have a big impact on Whitten but San Francisco? 

Don’t get why it’s necessary to put broad labels on a group of people.  And for the record I have this type of same complaint with the so called “other side” when people think they have a right to be haughty over another segment of the population. I’m firm believer that  all information should be out but again the decision is yours and yours alone to see how you want to move forward. Honestly have no clue how we move forward as a people when we’re too busy putting labels on each other. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,310]

1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Tl/Dr:  The faculty is incapable of reading the room which makes their input a net negative on those topics.

 

Perhaps having the faculty too involved in the administrative side of things is part of the issue.  Let's just get down to brass tacks.  Bloomington and the Indiana faculty likely hold views closer to San Francisco than (pick almost anywhere in this state).  Whitten has to balance the idea that a whole bunch of people in this state aren't super interested in funding some of the absolute nonsense that passes as "scholarship" and "academic freedom" these days.  For each of those items, it was better for the school to not let the faculty be involved.

The professor lied about using facilities to promote a group that is out of step with the sensibilities of this state.  It also happened at a time where Palestinian support movements on campus were basically nothing but anti-semitic rants that were harassing Jewish students and celebrating the televised murder of Israeli civilians.  There was a reason he lied about the event and the lie meant he should be punished.

Related to that, having a person with similar views at a similar time displaying art in the Eskanazi art center was probably a good idea to 86 as well.  The background of the multimillion dollar donor Eskanazis would lead one to believe that they would probably not appreciate someone who basically promotes killing the jews having their art displayed all over a center with their name on it.  The donor wins over the lefty faculty on that.  Sorry.

Kinsey is a blight on the school.  We can pull Jordan's name off of everything because of his views but still support the extremely questionable stuff Kinsey did with children.  ---- that guy and everything to do with him. 

On the last, she did go and oppose the bill.  She doesn't have a vote in government though so don't know what they expected.  Those people are her boss and hold the purse strings so again, being more militant like the faculty wanted is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Furthermore, the fact that the University is so wildly out of step with the rest of the state on a whole host of topics is a big reason why people are supportive of bills like that in the first place.  As someone who is politically on the other side of what is the norm in Bloomington and the school in particular, it gets noticed how hostile they are to people who have opinions like me, which are the dominate opinions in this state at the moment.  I think they waste money on stupid BS and it is a disservice to educating people in this state.  You get the perception that the school looks down its nose at the state it is in and that is part of what chases kids out of state after spending 4 years there.

Good Lord you just want to go off on political BS while ignoring what this is really about. I'll just leave it there.

[AKHoosier 6,610]

13 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Good Lord you just want to go off on political BS while ignoring what this is really about. I'll just leave it there.

You literally just posted political BS. Those are political issues that have nothing to do with the education of college students.

If you know more than what you're letting on, I think we would all appreciate it you shared it instead of the constant "trust me, I know but can't share" type of response.

But what you chose to copy from the IDS article implies that is what this is about, most of which is purely political. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,382]

5 minutes ago, AKHoosier said:

You literally just posted political BS. Those are political issues that have nothing to do with the education of college students.

If you know more than what you're letting on, I think we would all appreciate it you shared it instead of the constant "trust me, I know but can't share" type of response.

But what you chose to copy from the IDS article implies that is what this is about, most of which is purely political. 

From what I read it seemed more like a tantrum from faculty because they can't hate on Israel(which let's be honest, it always ends up at just wanting to wipe Israel off the map. Things go downhill quickly unfortunately). And then mad because they can't get public funding, at a public university, where the public says "we don't care about your gender studies." Is there more? Probably. But those seem to be the two things they really want highlight. So from the outside, it makes it look 100% political. This is topic that literally can't have politics left out because that seems to be the reason behind it all. Might be something best left for Twitter and DMs.

[IUCrazy2 2,187]

1 hour ago, Banksyrules said:

 

Are u making this about yourself? Look the issues the professors that you stated down mean squat to me because they’re not issues that greatly impact the whole but it’s important that there is a diversified points of view that should be expressed. It’s how we get better. We gather the information and hopefully through study and humility we use the data or not to better ourselves. Now I agree that the issues stated above should really not have a big impact on Whitten but San Francisco? 

Don’t get why it’s necessary to put broad labels on group of people.  And for the record I have this type of same complaint with the so called “other side” when people think they have a right to be haughty over another segment of the population. I’m firm believer that it all information should be out but again the decision is yours and yours alone to see how you want to move forward. Honestly have no clue how we move forward as a people when we’re too busy putting labels on each other. 

The lack of diversity of views is the problem I am complaining about.  That is THE issue with the faculty.  And the viewpoint that they have on most topics is out of step with the majority of the rest of the state.  Whitten is trying to thread the needle and they want to dump her EXACTLY because she was showing lack of conformity to the faculty. 

[Home Jersey 5,530]

The best political and social commentary always comes from internet message boards about college sports. 

[IUCrazy2 2,187]

48 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Good Lord you just want to go off on political BS while ignoring what this is really about. I'll just leave it there.

Enlighten us, what is it really about.  The stupid **** posted that they are complaining about is all political.  All of it.  Is she kicking puppies?  Is she sexually harassing staff?  Is she verbally abusing people?  Is she running the University into the ground economically?  If it is anything but politics, please point out what.  Every complaint being aired out there right now is that she wasn't toeing the correct "progressive" line on topics.  And I guarantee it isn't academic freedom they are concerned about, they would be up in arms if some right wing person was being platformed by the school.  It is politics.  We know it is politics because that is all that is shared other than whispers of "she doesn't let people bring their phones in to talk to her" or other non-specific innuendos about how mean she is.

[8bucks 6,208]

1 minute ago, Home Jersey said:

The best political and social commentary always comes from internet message boards about college sports. 

sometimes the cool thing about political commentary on a sports board is that it is not an echo chamber of the political views we gravitate towards.  It can be healthy and yet I understand why folks tend to shy away from it.  

[Golfman25 4,842]

Professors whine.  It’s what they do.  Got to fill the time somehow.  

[Home Jersey 5,530]

6 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Enlighten us, what is it really about.  The stupid **** posted that they are complaining about is all political.  All of it.  Is she kicking puppies?  Is she sexually harassing staff?  Is she verbally abusing people?  Is she running the Univeristy into the ground economically?  If it is anything but politics, please point out what.  Every complaint being aired out there right now is that she wasn't toeing the correct "progressive" line on topics.  And I guarantee it isn't academic freedom they are concerned about, they would be up in arms if some right wing person was being platformed by the school.  It is politics.  We know it is politics because that is all that is shared other than whispers of "she doesn't let people bring their phones in to talk to her" or other non-specific innuendos about how mean she is.

You certainly appear to have a very thorough understanding of the substance and issues at hand based on the one or two newspaper articles you've read. Keep practicing and eventually those reading comprehension scores will come up little buddy

5 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

sometimes the cool thing about political commentary on a sports board is that it is not an echo chamber of the political views we gravitate towards.  It can be healthy and yet I understand why folks tend to shy away from it.  

You can immediately see there is no attempt at having a legitimate conversation about politics here. It's not "shying away" to not engage with someone foaming at the mouth to make what they perceive to be "a good point" politically.

If someone can't understand the distinction between people having an issue with both the outcome AND the process to reach that outcome, the convo is not going to go anywhere because they're just looking to bark about the outcome. Personally I don't expect nuanced dialogue on a message board like this so I'm not going to sweat the opinions of others.

I will laugh at the righteous indignation though, because it is funny. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 81,925]

Gentle reminder for everyone to tread easy.   

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,205]

Tempers are going to flare on this one.  I've got STRONG opinions Re: Politics with IU and therefore try to stay out of all this stuff.  The 2 sides will not see each other's side and opinions won't be swayed.  

[IUCrazy2 2,187]

6 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Gentle reminder for everyone to tread easy.   

I typed and deleted a response to Home Jersey a few times.  You're welcome.

[HoosierHoopster 6,310]

1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Enlighten us, what is it really about.  The stupid **** posted that they are complaining about is all political.  All of it.  Is she kicking puppies?  Is she sexually harassing staff?  Is she verbally abusing people?  Is she running the University into the ground economically?  If it is anything but politics, please point out what.  Every complaint being aired out there right now is that she wasn't toeing the correct "progressive" line on topics.  And I guarantee it isn't academic freedom they are concerned about, they would be up in arms if some right wing person was being platformed by the school.  It is politics.  We know it is politics because that is all that is shared other than whispers of "she doesn't let people bring their phones in to talk to her" or other non-specific innuendos about how mean she is.

I think you have reading comprehension issues. This isn't about your conservative views, or anyone's liberal views, it's not politics, it's basic governance policies of a president who doesn't follow them. I'm done with your political vitriol, count me uninterested in your hysterics.

[Hovadipo 53,380]

1 minute ago, HoosierHoopster said:

count me uninterested in your hysterics.

I say this to @Stuhoo all the time and he still insists I listen to their podcast.

[Banksyrules 4,312]

1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said:

The lack of diversity of views is the problem I am complaining about.  That is THE issue with the faculty.  And the viewpoint that they have on most topics is out of step with the majority of the rest of the state.  Whitten is trying to thread the needle and they want to dump her EXACTLY because she was showing lack of conformity to the faculty. 

Personally I think it’s just picking and choosing. There are plenty of guest lectures and programs that speak on multiple issues. The Mathers Museum have had lectures on guns of the past ( Note not saying it’s conservative to support guns , just that it seems to be a stupid prevailing label), and there have been many prolife lectureships.  Personally I’m in favor of letting it all out and hope we have an educated populace that at least hears all the information, then go make a judgment, with hopefully the humility to adapt. All of it, or none of it. 

That’s what IU was founded on.  I had a conversation with Herman B Wells before he passed and that was the vision he held when we talked. For people who don’t know. Herman B Wells was the university president that kind of help ignite the university to be nationally respected and recognized. During WW2 he had an active part in bringing some the smartest scientists and thinkers in Europe to teach our students. People who were Jewish (at the time we did not want as country (in general) and did a lot of at the time controversial studies.  That’s the issue I have with you. Yes those are specific topics but it’s the price you pay to have people come in and talk about your topics of interest. They’re talked about, it’s just not publicized. 

For those frustrated , this is my last post on the topic.