Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[HoosierHoopster 7,282]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

At Rhode Island, but yes.

But the loss is to Brown and the wins are all incredibly low/mid-level, at best.

I corrected that already, but yeah

[AZ Hoosier 8,172]

2 hours ago, Hornsby said:

100% Instead they threw 6.2 million dollars at the failed experiment

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More like $10.5 for this year alone (NIL plus The Parasite's salary)... and $4+M/year for the first 3 years plus whatever NIL they had... and we ended up with an epic failure... thanks, Quinn Buckner, you $*@#$. 

[HoosierHoopster 7,282]

13 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

IU has zero commitments.

That isn't true because we have 1 in Sisley 

Does this really matter?

You tend to point out mistakes for the sake of doing so while ignoring the point. Woodson’s recruiting failure isn’t debatable 

[Home Jersey 9,655]

Would future potential coaches have been turned off if Woodson retired after last year?

[AZ Hoosier 8,172]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Because well-run organizations in different industries have very different norms.

This is an organization in an industry that, absent extreme misconduct or extraordinary operational failure (i.e. Kenny Payne), the position routinely gets at least four years. And in this industry, giving less than the minimum norm will greatly discourage future qualified candidates. Moreover, a large buyout accompanies the early years of the deal.

So it is of paramount importance to carefully vet and only hire a very high-profile job head coach that is truly an excellent choice, because absent a national headline, he is going to be the coach for at least four years.It appears to me that selecting Woody was the bad choice, but giving him a fourth year was a given.

Gee, ya think? Nepotism rarely works out for anyone except the nepotist and the nepotistee.

Of course they compounded the situation by making the buyout so high - a situation that only affected Indiana... no one was going to steal the Parasite in Chief from us... so we just made it more expensive to can his @$$.

[Hornsby 2,583]

The recruiting misses are tough. The “insiders” are saying the fans put too much pressure on the team and the guys crumble under the immense pressure.
 
I get that. I think it’s probably a real thing. But Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, and others have the same type of large, loud fanbases. They win (mostly). Maybe we get the wrong guys that don’t relish the big stage. I mean, also obviously the coach. Because a good product and Wins and our fanbase can be our biggest asset as well.
 
I’m excited to see a different brand of basketball. I miss ball movement, player movement.
 
It’s a shame because this roster had me excited again until I’ve seen the product 4-5 times and it looks the same as it always does. And the results are line with other Mediocre Mike seasons. Ugh……….
 
 
 
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The only difference is this is the highest paid roster we ever had. The on court product is exactly the same.

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[Scotty R 2,466]

3 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Does this really matter?

You tend to point out mistakes for the sake of doing so while ignoring the point. Woodson’s recruiting failure isn’t debatable 

Didn't mean it matters and I know it is time for Woodson to leave. I wanted him gone after last year but they didn't fire him so I was willing to see how it was going to go this year

[AZ Hoosier 8,172]

42 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

The fact no one else wanted him to be HC should've told them do not pass go, that's a giant red flag. Either the only thing that mattered was him playing here 40 years ago, or their vetting was laughably abysmal.

C. All of the above.

[Pagoda 1,297]

Well, Doherty had an ACC title and AP Coach of the Year to earn him more time and he wasn't fired for cause.  Billy Clyde I believe was, he is likely a good serious misconduct example.  As a side note it's kinda funny TT hired him... right on brand for them.

Another way to put it: would UK, UNC, or KU give Woody a 4th year?  We'll never know, but I doubt it.

And the point remains coaches aren't scared off when they see a poor coach like Woodson fired, and there are costs to keep coaches like Woody around.  A good organization moves quickly on replacing bad leaders regardless of perceived industry norms, it's always better to bite the bullet and move on, it only gets worse/harder as more time passes.

[AZ Hoosier 8,172]

18 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

At Rhode Island, but yes.

But the loss is to Brown and the wins are all incredibly low/mid-level, at best.

Not unlike Woodson's wins this year:
SIU-Edwardsville, Eastern Illinois, South Carolina, UNC Greensboro, Providence, Sam Houston St, Miami-Ohio, Minnesota, Chattanooga (and probably) Winthrop... real resume building wins there.

And he's lost to every team with a pulse.

[AZ Hoosier 8,172]

4 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

Well, Doherty had an ACC title and AP Coach of the Year to earn him more time and he wasn't fired for cause.  Billy Clyde I believe was, he is likely a good serious misconduct example.  As a side note it's kinda funny TT hired him... right on brand for them.

Another way to put it: would UK, UNC, or KU give Woody a 4th year?  We'll never know, but I doubt it.

And the point remains coaches aren't scared off when they see a poor coach like Woodson fired, and there are costs to keep coaches like Woody around.  A good organization moves quickly on replacing bad leaders regardless of perceived industry norms, it's always better to bite the bullet and move on, it only gets worse/harder as more time passes.

They would not have given him year one. Guaranteed.

[Home Jersey 9,655]

24 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Would future potential coaches have been turned off if Woodson retired after last year?

Answering my own question - I doubt it. 

There's a universe where Woodson could have retired quickly after the BTT and truthfully say: Indiana hadn't made the tournament in years. I came back and we made it 2/3 years. I put kids in the NBA. I proved 5 star talent from all over would come here. I helped build a foundational aspect of our program in NIL (if his connection to Simons/Cooks are as important as people speculate, this is 100% true regardless of his on court results even after he leaves - as long as the investment continues once he is gone. I think it will). 

That would be something he could feel legitimately proud about. And in a different environment, the AD probably is able to hold his hand through it so he can feel good and continue being a beloved figure in the university community. 

You may say he wanted another shot after missing the tournament because he's a competitor. I'd say that's baloney.

He should have quit while he was ahead. 

[Juwan Moye 366]

If our program were run by adults we’d have a headline about Woodson like this:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/43168609/sources-jim-larranaga-talks-miami-stepping-down

[HoosierHoopster 7,282]

34 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

Didn't mean it matters and I know it is time for Woodson to leave. I wanted him gone after last year but they didn't fire him so I was willing to see how it was going to go this year

Same. At this point, I’m looking forward to the new coach search

[Napleshoosier 10,474]

Stu says he’s a dead man walking so I will take that as what’s happening.  I’m going to relax and watch these kids play out the year then get popcorn with extra butter and watch the upcoming show.  It’s normally very entertaining ……..

[Stuhoo 82,693]

34 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Not unlike Woodson's wins this year:
SIU-Edwardsville, Eastern Illinois, South Carolina, UNC Greensboro, Providence, Sam Houston St, Miami-Ohio, Minnesota, Chattanooga (and probably) Winthrop... real resume building wins there.

And he's lost to every team with a pulse.

Yet Woodson is in his last year and Archie is having a really good year. Because Rhode Island has very different expectations and resources.

NO ONE is disagreeing that

1. The hire of Woody was completely misguided
2. The plain fact that this is his last year.

But giving him the fourth year was 100% understandable. Just like Rhode Island giving Archie a fourth year was understandable even though he did not meet expectations there for his first three years.

[JSHoosier 20,773]

23 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

They would not have given him year one. Guaranteed.

Better question would be would they even grant him an interview considering he hadn't gotten another HC job since the Knicks fired him.

[Josh 12,757]

I've found that my hires that follow a bum are immensely more popular and successful than my hires that follow a legend.  Many candidates I interview say the same, they're excited to take over for a non-performer no matter how long the previous employee held their position.

The whole narrative that if we fire somebody before X amount of time we'll struggle to get a good candidate is pig poo.

[AZ Hoosier 8,172]

2 hours ago, Josh said:

I've found that my hires that follow a bum are immensely more popular and successful than my hires that follow a legend.  Many candidates I interview say the same, they're excited to take over for a non-performer no matter how long the previous employee held their position.
The whole narrative that if we fire somebody before X amount of time we'll struggle to get a good candidate is pig poo.

Nobody wants to be the guy that follows the legend… but that hasn’t been an issue here for 25 years.

[Hornsby 2,583]

Not unlike Woodson's wins this year:
SIU-Edwardsville, Eastern Illinois, South Carolina, UNC Greensboro, Providence, Sam Houston St, Miami-Ohio, Minnesota, Chattanooga (and probably) Winthrop... real resume building wins there.
And he's lost to every team with a pulse.

The preseason schedule is a joke. No wins against anyone any good.

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