JHS— NBA Bound

[BGleas 7,880]

1 minute ago, ap2345 said:

Some are and some aren’t. It just depends on the individual. 

Sure there are always exceptions and guys at each level that stand out, but generally speaking NBA coaches are way more sophisticated in terms of X's and O's. Much better with ATO's and especially defensively. 

[str8baller 4,756]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

NBA guys are excellent with X's and O's. Way more advanced then college coaches. 

Than who? Your average used car salesman D1 coach? Maybe… Your average Indiana HS coach…not a chance. 
 

NBA coaches are poorly equipped and even if they’re good often hamstrung by star personalities.

[BGleas 7,880]

8 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Than who? Your average used car salesman D1 coach? Maybe… Your average Indiana HS coach…not a chance. 
 

NBA coaches are poorly equipped and even if they’re good often hamstrung by star personalities.

Wait, wait, did you actually say Indiana HS coaches are better then NBA coaches?

Please tell me I misread that?

[TheWatShot 13,335]

13 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Than who? Your average used car salesman D1 coach? Maybe… Your average Indiana HS coach…not a chance. 

Is this a serious post? 

[Scotty R 1,897]

14 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Than who? Your average used car salesman D1 coach? Maybe… Your average Indiana HS coach…not a chance. 
 

NBA coaches are poorly equipped and even if they’re good often hamstrung by star personalities.

I hope this is a joke

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,760]

I hope this is a joke

It is April fools afterall. We are getting punked in every thread with hot takes. Lol.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

[BGleas 7,880]

9 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I had a lot of frustration with Woodson’s and staff’s decisions this season, including that we still shot a low volume from the arc despite that we had shooting at better percentages, while we continued to play through TJD/inside and even though his recognition and ability to kick it out of the double-T was much better -

but, now we’ll see if what Woodson says about how he wants to play holds water, including in how he continues to recruit this year and next from the portal and HS, and how he spreads the floor. His NBA coaching style is consistent with what he’s saying, so there’s reason for optimism, I just want to see that change come fast, no reason for it not to.

Yeah, my thing coming into the season was I was hoping the offense would look more like it did during BTT last season when we ran much more PnR with XJ and TJD, as opposed to running through the post. 

It happened some this season in certain matchups (ie against Purdue both times), but not as much as I was anticipating. 

In Woodson's defense, I think the offense would have looked different if XJ and JHS had been healthy at the same time. We only saw that for a handful of games. 

[cthomas 5,917]

14 hours ago, BGleas said:

In fairness to Woodson, he's alluded to the same thing, and pretty much said he's never run an offense like this but was playing to his personnel. 

I actually like that. My frustration with some of our previous coaches was that they ran their system regardless of personnel, I'd much rather have a coach that adapts to his guys strengths. 

With that said, I also think Woodson could have done some more things to play a more current style this season, especially given TJD's ball-handling and passing improvements. 

I completely agree. That said, from CMW's perspective, there is a risk/reward aspect to college coaching. I think he did what he thought would get him the best results. I saw considerable growth in how he approached the game management from season one to season two. That tells me he is trying to figure out how best to apply his vast basketball knowledge to the current college game. If we stick with it, I think he can do great things here.

[HoosierHoopster 6,041]

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, my thing coming into the season was I was hoping the offense would look more like it did during BTT last season when we ran much more PnR with XJ and TJD, as opposed to running through the post. 

It happened some this season in certain matchups (ie against Purdue both times), but not as much as I was anticipating. 

In Woodson's defense, I think the offense would have looked different if XJ and JHS had been healthy at the same time. We only saw that for a handful of games. 

Yes good point- we played without our starting point all season, hard to know if things would have gelled with him running the offense.

[sweetpain 498]

Is there a chance JHS does not get drafted in first round? This bleacher report has neither him nor TJD. Not sure how accurate but would not be happy if it happens.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10070519-2023-nba-mock-draft-updated-1st-round-predictions-before-ncaa-championship.amp.html

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[str8baller 4,756]

19 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

Is this a serious post? 

You guys don’t watch much NBA, huh? I said average. And I’ll stand by that. Your average HS coach in Indiana probably has a wider breadth of knowledge on Xs and Os than your average NBA coach.    The gulf between Great and bad in the NBA is huge though. The top ~5 coaches or so are very good Xs and Os wise. And I would have pegged Woody as below average. There are tons of Juan Howard’s, Patrick Ewings, Chris Mullins, Avery Johnsons, etc… 

In any event, you missed the second part. even if you have a good coach at that level, their expertise is often at the mercy of the star player. You could reincarnate John Wooden and put him on the Lakers bench, but all you’ll see is the exact style of play Lebron wants to play. The Nets had a good coach and fired him for someone that has never coached before. Then they fired that guy. All because their stars demanded it. Then their stars demanded a trade.   
 

Your average coach is probably someone like Frank Vogel. A classic Pitino disciple who is a good defensive coach and utterly incompetent at the xs and os of offense.  The NBA is largely about managing personalities. It’s why the guy with the most titles, is know as the Zen Master and famously for his psychological handling of big egos and not his system. There’s a reason nobody uses the triangle.  
 

Your talking about a league that took 30 years to figure out the math on shooting 3’s and was behind the amateur game the whole time….lol. The notion that the NBA is some pinnacle of basketball Xs and Os is laughable. 

[BGleas 7,880]

19 minutes ago, str8baller said:

You guys don’t watch much NBA, huh? I said average. And I’ll stand by that. Your average HS coach in Indiana probably has a wider breadth of knowledge on Xs and Os than your average NBA coach.    The gulf between Great and bad in the NBA is huge though. The top ~5 coaches or so are very good Xs and Os wise. And I would have pegged Woody as below average. There are tons of Juan Howard’s, Patrick Ewings, Chris Mullins, Avery Johnsons, etc… 

In any event, you missed the second part. even if you have a good coach at that level, their expertise is often at the mercy of the star player. You could reincarnate John Wooden and put him on the Lakers bench, but all you’ll see is the exact style of play Lebron wants to play. The Nets had a good coach and fired him for someone that has never coached before. Then they fired that guy. All because their stars demanded it. Then their stars demanded a trade.   
 

Your average coach is probably someone like Frank Vogel. A classic Pitino disciple who is a good defensive coach and utterly incompetent at the xs and os of offense.  The NBA is largely about managing personalities. It’s why the guy with the most titles, is know as the Zen Master and famously for his psychological handling of big egos and not his system. There’s a reason nobody uses the triangle.  
 

Your talking about a league that took 30 years to figure out the math on shooting 3’s and was behind the amateur game the whole time….lol. The notion that the NBA is some pinnacle of basketball Xs and Os is laughable. 

I watch a ton of NBA, and have my entire life, also worked for an NBA team for 5 years. 

The idea that even the best Indiana HS coaches are as good as NBA coaches with X's and O's is ludicrous. 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,887]

30 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I watch a ton of NBA, and have my entire life, also worked for an NBA team for 5 years. 

The idea that even the best Indiana HS coaches are as good as NBA coaches with X's and O's is ludicrous. 

Same people who say they don’t play any defense in the NBA. Hating on the NBA is just popular for whatever reason. 

[str8baller 4,756]

28 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I watch a ton of NBA, and have my entire life, also worked for an NBA team for 5 years. 

The idea that even the best Indiana HS coaches are as good as NBA coaches with X's and O's is ludicrous. 

Lol…crazy. But If expect that from someone with an NBA background. X’s and O’s in basketball has always been a ground up thing. Football used to be top down with the NFL driving innovation, but even that’s changed all the spread stuff has made its way to the NFL but was innovate in HS football in Texas and Arkansas.  
 

I literally can’t even believe I have to explain this on an IU board. NBA teams just started using motion offense more heavily in the last decade. Please someone, I’m begging you to explain to me how the motion offense was invented and developed in the pros. Bob Knight…. Big admirerer of pro basketball….lmao. 

[BGleas 7,880]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Same people who say they don’t play any defense in the NBA. Hating on the NBA is just popular for whatever reason. 

Right! NBA defenses are way more sophisticated than anything in college and certainly high school. 

[str8baller 4,756]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Same people who say they don’t play any defense in the NBA. Hating on the NBA is just popular for whatever reason. 

Feel free to add substantive thoughts. Let’s start here:  

 

What specifically is antiquated about Woody’s offenses vis a vis the NBA with regard to JHS? That was the original claim. Be very specific. 

[BGleas 7,880]

Just now, str8baller said:

Lol…crazy. But If expect that from someone with an NBA background. X’s and O’s in basketball has always been a ground up thing. Football used to be top down with the NFL driving innovation, but even that’s changed all the spread stuff has made its way to the NFL but was innovate in HS football in Texas and Arkansas.  
 

I literally can’t even believe I have to explain this on an IU board. NBA teams just started using motion offense more heavily in the last decade. Please someone, I’m begging you to explain to me how the motion offense was invented and developed in the pros. Bob Knight…. Big admirerer of pro basketball….lmao. 

Honestly, I've been posting on these various boards since 2008 and you're take on this is one of the widlest, craziest I've ever seen. 

The offenses in the NBA are infinitely better, the actions they run are infinitely better, the ATO's are infinitely better than anything in college or high school, and defenses are way more sophisticated. 

[str8baller 4,756]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Right! NBA defenses are way more sophisticated than anything in college and certainly high school. 

True. But they’re much less varied in terms of schemes. 
 

But they’re offenses are way less sophisticated than your average Indiana HS team. 

[BGleas 7,880]

1 minute ago, str8baller said:

True. But they’re much less varied in terms of schemes. 
 

But they’re offenses are way less sophisticated than your average Indiana HS team. 

It depends on what you mean by less varied? Are you referring to junk defenses like a triangle and 2 that high school coaches sometimes run? Ok, sure varied, but only because you'd get absolutely torched running garbage defense in the NBA.  

NBA defenses schematically are light-years more sophisticated and complicated than any HS defense. It's laughable to suggest otherwise.  

Same for offense. The actions NBA coaches develop to create specific mismatches are also infinitely more sophisticated than any HS offense. 

[str8baller 4,756]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

The offenses in the NBA are infinitely better, the actions they run are infinitely better, the ATO's are infinitely better than anything in college or high school, and defenses are way more sophisticated.

Execution does not equal complexity.  
 

But break it down for me. How is JHS’s role in Woodys offense antiqued with regard to the NBA?  
 

Let’s forget for a moment that Woody is a pro coach. Did JHS not initiate the offense with a high ball screen and the wings spread out like half the teams in the NBA?