*RANT HERE*

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,622]

13 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

They get minutes because of being athletic and not being better basketball players. Kinda sounds like a problem.

The first requirement is being a good enough athlete/having good enough size, though. But yes, skill level across the board when looking at our entire team is a problem. 

[8bucks 6,197]

10 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

They get minutes because of being athletic and not being better basketball players. Kinda sounds like a problem.

Definitely, which is why this Rant page is active.  I am fine with a few athletes, and fine with a few basketball players but the "non-athletes" really need to excel at something.  Shooting, running the offense, passing, defense, sweet talking the ref, etc... Leal does not offer those consistently whereas the athletes are generally always athletic.  

However, we are spending a lot of time talking about players 7 - 12 and while they play a role, I tend to think all these players play too much.  We usually do well when starters are in but when these bench players all come in together they are not a productive unit. 

[AZ Hoosier 6,092]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I think 90% of people here could coach just as well. People get tricked by him being an NBA coach and blah blah blah. But he isn't a good coach. That's pretty evident. I think 90% on this board wouldn't continue every game making the same stupid mistake of subbing out 4 dudes because it never works.

Now, now... to quote CMW, "I elected to go to my bench, which I have done this season, and I've gotten some good results here and there".

It truly sounds line he doesn't have a clue... just keep doing what he's been doing and hoping for different results - the very definition of insanity.

I mean, don't we all want a coach who "gets good results here and there"? That's why we pay him $4.2M/year, isn't it?

[Golfman25 4,831]

1 hour ago, IndyResident16 said:

As opposed to stupid turnovers?

In my mind a stupid shot is equal to a turnover.  Especially with this team that can't rebound.  

[monskisprodigy 1,775]

The fact that we are arguing over whether guys who cant shoot, dribble or guard should get more minutes (and potentially significant minutes) than a guy who's rode the bench for four years and also has trouble shooting, dribbling and guarding, is a sad sign of where we currently are...

Woody and staff need a roster management 101 crash course. Determine your identity and recruit players that fit your system vs. potential and stars. Purdue, Wisconsin, etc. have an identity and culture and they recruit to it year in and year out...if freaking Greg Gard can do it, so can Woody. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,315]

2 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Definitely, which is why this Rant page is active.  I am fine with a few athletes, and fine with a few basketball players but the "non-athletes" really need to excel at something.  Shooting, running the offense, passing, defense, sweet talking the ref, etc... Leal does not offer those consistently whereas the athletes are generally always athletic.  

However, we are spending a lot of time talking about players 7 - 12 and while they play a role, I tend to think all these players play too much.  We usually do well when starters are in but when these bench players all come in together they are not a productive unit. 

So they are athletic... But not actually providing positives. Banks is just bad. Period. He shouldn't be seeing minutes at all, especially since we already have an older him in Anthony Walker playing. And neither can shoot the ball. I'd rather see Leal take Banks minutes over anyone. Banks is just bad. Gunn is surprisingly shooting 33% from 3 but also 34% inside the 3(because he takes a lot of bad pull up 2s). I don't care about how athletic dudes are. Your athleticism is literally useless if you can't actually play the game.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,315]

1 minute ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Now, now... to quote CMW, "I elected to go to my bench, which I have done this season, and I've gotten some good results here and there".

It truly sounds line he doesn't have a clue... just keep doing what he's been doing and hoping for different results - the very definition of insanity.

I mean, don't we all want a coach who "gets good results here and there"? That's why we pay him $4.2M/year, isn't it?

I think it's the "here and there part." Like that doesn't sound like a positive to me at all.

[AZ Hoosier 6,092]

1 minute ago, monskisprodigy said:

The fact that we are arguing over whether guys who cant shoot, dribble should or guard get more minutes than a guy who's rode the bench for four years and also has trouble shooting, dribbling and guarding is a sad sign of where we currently are...

Woody and staff need a roster management 101 crash course. Determine your identity and recruit players that fit your system vs. potential and stars. Purdue, Wisconsin, etc. have an identity and culture and they recruit to it year in and year out...if freaking Greg Gard can do it, so can Woody. 

I honestly don't think Woody knows what he wants in a roster or what he wants to do from game to game or situation to situation.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,315]

9 minutes ago, btownqb said:

The first requirement is being a good enough athlete/having good enough size, though. But yes, skill level across the board when looking at our entire team is a problem. 

Leal is 6-5 210. Size isn't an issue. And it's been said before by players in the past that Leal was arguably the strongest dude on the team.

[AZ Hoosier 6,092]

2 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I think it's the "here and there part." Like that doesn't sound like a positive to me at all.

Exactly. That was my point. Even a broken clock is right twice a day... kind of the same thing here.

Success "here and there" is not success at all... it's luck or happenstance.

[Golfman25 4,831]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I think 90% of people here could coach just as well. People get tricked by him being an NBA coach and blah blah blah. But he isn't a good coach. That's pretty evident. I think 90% on this board wouldn't continue every game making the same stupid mistake of subbing out 4 dudes because it never works.

Exceptional performers are always evaluating and improving.  They make the moves necessary to win -- whether at basketball or life.  But those types are few and far between -- maybe 10% of the population, 20% if we are lucky.  Mr. Ego gets in the way and prevents people from seeing the issues right in front of them.  That's how we get an NBA guy with 40+ years of playing/coaching experience make the same silly substitutions game after game, year after year, with mixed results and then snap at the media when questioned.  I have no reason to believe that the posters on this board are any different than the general population and thus only 10-20% would be exceptional.  The 90% here who would coach maybe won't do the substitutions, but hand their hat on something else that doesn't work.  

[Golfman25 4,831]

20 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Definitely, which is why this Rant page is active.  I am fine with a few athletes, and fine with a few basketball players but the "non-athletes" really need to excel at something.  Shooting, running the offense, passing, defense, sweet talking the ref, etc... Leal does not offer those consistently whereas the athletes are generally always athletic.  

However, we are spending a lot of time talking about players 7 - 12 and while they play a role, I tend to think all these players play too much.  We usually do well when starters are in but when these bench players all come in together they are not a productive unit. 

Yes, Leal needed to be that knock down shooter.  You know that kid that comes in and rips the other teams heart out because he can't miss -- how many times have we seen that kid play against us.   

[tkbbn 481]

I think CMW knows what he wants in a roster but unfortunately he can't recruit well enough to get there. He gets some top prospects but not enough to put it all together and he isn't a good enough coach to overcome the lack of physical talent we don't have. We have some athletes on this team but they aren't becoming basketball players very quickly and that very well could be on the coaching staff. Not communicating what they actually need to do in a way the players can understand. Plenty of size and quickness to rebound but unfortunately we are terrible at it. That is just one example. Also think the players are timid at this time, maybe afraid to make a mistake and that causes hesitation. They all need to relax and play basketball, get back to the basics and do the little things. Play lockdown defense, rebound the ball and let the offense take care of itself. Get out in transition more and run. Yes we will make some mistakes but it will get better. Let the defense and rebounding cover the offensive mistakes we make.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,315]

2 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Yes, Leal needed to be that knock down shooter.  You know that kid that comes in and rips the other teams heart out because he can't miss -- how many times have we seen that kid play against us.   

I don't think he's gotten the run, green light or confidence given to him to do so. I understand where he is mentally there.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,315]

5 minutes ago, tkbbn said:

I think CMW knows what he wants in a roster but unfortunately he can't recruit well enough to get there. He gets some top prospects but not enough to put it all together and he isn't a good enough coach to overcome the lack of physical talent we don't have. We have some athletes on this team but they aren't becoming basketball players very quickly and that very well could be on the coaching staff. Not communicating what they actually need to do in a way the players can understand. Plenty of size and quickness to rebound but unfortunately we are terrible at it. That is just one example. Also think the players are timid at this time, maybe afraid to make a mistake and that causes hesitation. They all need to relax and play basketball, get back to the basics and do the little things. Play lockdown defense, rebound the ball and let the offense take care of itself. Get out in transition more and run. Yes we will make some mistakes but it will get better. Let the defense and rebounding cover the offensive mistakes we make.

Instilling confidence in your players. Jimmy SEC brought it up during the Auburn game about how Pearl does it. I don't feel Woody does that. It should be burned into these dudes brains, if you're wide open, shoot the ball. Hell shoot the ball if you're just open any. I think Cream was the same. If you have space, shoot the ball. Our guys only do if they are wide wide open.

[Hoosier987 1,029]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Leal is 6-5 210. Size isn't an issue. And it's been said before by players in the past that Leal was arguably the strongest dude on the team.

I get your line of thinking regarding X and tend to agree with it...count me as one of the guys that think we will be better next year when he is gone. The problem is, Leal isn't the answer. Leal is a low to mid-major player that should only be playing spot minutes. The fact that Leal is being a candidate for major minutes is a problem in itself and a product of the poor roster construction and terrible guard play we have. There is no Earl Calloway coming off the bench to take over for poor starter play.

[Scotty R 1,904]

12 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

I am firmly convinced most on here and across IU fanverse have never played any high level ball. This kind of stuff happens a LOT. Sometimes guys get caught. If it isn’t this, it is other cheap shots. Fife and Lewis did this stuff all the time. Yes, off court too.  But, let’s hire Beard smh

So many have this weird version of what IU was. Like our players were some pastors. Even the few former players complaining were no saints at all. Bobby sure wasn’t either.  

It was dumb because it was bad timing, he got caught and his team needed him on the road as their leader.

It isn't one incident but 4 here at IU plus he had trouble at Pitt as well. I would have kicked him off the team. I also wouldn't ever want Beard to coach IU either

[Scotty R 1,904]

4 hours ago, btownqb said:

I'm not sure how that helps, respectively. Isn't a good shooter, not a good ball handler, very average defender, not a great athlete. 

But, I'll listen....  why should Leal get mins and who's? 

He at least doesn't turn the ball over

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,622]

1 hour ago, Golfman25 said:

Yes, Leal needed to be that knock down shooter.  You know that kid that comes in and rips the other teams heart out because he can't miss -- how many times have we seen that kid play against us.   

Respectively, he was never that guy. That wasn't his skillset in HS. 

When he hit 3s.. they were generally wide open because the teams were willing to give those up to him. 

[JSHoosier 19,647]

2 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

Your last paragraph is it !!!!

too many think when he laughed walking off etc. that he is a jerk. Doesn’t care etc. come on. No, he is filled with anxiety. He is sensitive. That is a nervous laugh. He knows how much 90% of this fanbase is mad at him. He knows he has messed up a few times. He is so hard on himself.

I just watched a Guyton and Fife interview on this. Fife talked about the fights he would get into. FYI.. he was dirty as hell on the court. How much the anxiety and pressure was killing him at IU. How his hands would go numb during the game. How he would miss layups because he couldn’t feel the ball.

The best thing this fanbase could do is turn down the pressure. Stop with the fire Woody, kick X off the team, having Trilly with his number 1 engagement post in weeks talking about firing Woody yesterday.  

This is a fairly young team. They are feeling all this pressure and it isn’t good. In the social media world they see all of it. The more we pile on X and Trey. The more articles written on it. Making it all worse. 
 

end my rant 

He can be held accountable for once without kicking him off the team. I'd take him out of the starting lineup, maybe not play him tonight at all, and any minutes he got would be dependent on how he played if/when he got in, if his cranium is still in his colon then right back to the bench.