IUBB at Xavier - Friday, 11/18/22 @ 6:00 on FS1

[Brass Cannon]

17 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

What part of “you can’t be obvious” do you not understand?

And I’ve already stated Jones should have been T’d up when he fouled out. But it’s the road - and you’re whining about calls not being “fair”?

There are calls that aren’t fair and there are calls that are flat out stupid. Which Both these Ts were. 

[Tasmanian Devil]

3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

There are calls that aren’t fair and there are calls that are flat out stupid. Which Both these Ts were. 

That might be.

But if it’s a point of emphasis, why take the chance?

[Josh]

1 hour ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

What part of “you can’t be obvious” do you not understand?

And I’ve already stated Jones should have been T’d up when he fouled out. But it’s the road - and you’re whining about calls not being “fair”?

Not whining at all.  No more than anybody else is--including you.  Just discussing.

31 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

That might be.

But if it’s a point of emphasis, why take the chance?

Like Freemantle did but didn't get called for it?

[Tasmanian Devil]

10 minutes ago, Josh said:

Not whining at all.  No more than anybody else is--including you.  Just discussing.

Like Freemantle did but didn't get called for it?

Should he have been? I don’t know. If you are being technical about it, probably. 
 

But staring back at an opponent as you’re running downcourt as opposed to pausing - however briefly - and saying something?

I’m of the opinion No One should be engaged in one-upmanship. ESPECIALLY if it’s something that can cost your team.  
 

You and I could debate all day long on whether Xavier players SHOULD HAVE been called for technical fouls. The only thing that matters is whether or not we did anything to get them.

Don’t cost your team.Life on the road is difficult enough. Why add to the difficulty?

[lillurk]

Re the technical discussion, I think the point here is 1. What sort of actions deserve a tech but it has also become about 2. Whether those actions are obvious or less do.

I don’t believe X or Malik deserved a tech, nor Freemantle, based on what we know. That is, they fail question 1 above. I.e. there should be no penalty for looking at the opposing bench, nor for barking “and 1” or whatever after you score.

Given that, 2 is a moot point. 

[Tasmanian Devil]

9 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

Going 1 for 4 on 2 pointers is not good and is losing basketball. IU didn't beat Xavier, on the road, (can we say this again now?) because Kopp went 1 for 4 from inside the arc in the first half. Try to separate the different aspects of the game, find what worked and what didn't work. Kopp going 1 for 4 is something that didn't work, this is an area that we can improve on by him not shooting those (more proof is from a full season).

Why is that wishful thinking? That makes no sense. I would love for the team to improve and be even more efficient on offense. Part of that is knowing what is and isn't a good shot. Kopp shooting from inside the arc has been proven to be not good.

XJ and Reneau getting techs is not good and losing basketball too. The fact they made fantastic plays before the techs is winning basketball, getting pumped and showing attitude is winning basketball. However, getting the tech is losing basketball. (and yet we won the game!!) You see how there can be positive and negative effects there? Increase the good while decreasing the bad and you increase your chances at winning more big road games!! (maybe this is the wishful thinking part?)

Your last two paragraphs says it all.

There’s a reason why teams like Michigan State are good year after year. Winning Basketball. Doing the little things that beget winning and avoiding things that cost you.

[lillurk]

Ok, some reflections from Friday’s game:

1. You expect role players, especially younger ones, to struggle on the road, moreso early in the year. I’m not worried about JHS, Bates, or Geronimo based on this game.

2. JHS had a nice game EXCEPT shooting.

3. Reneau did all that in 16 minutes. Very few teams have one big as good as he is, let alone more than that.

4. As we might’ve guessed, pretty clear the true rotation is the starters plus Trey, Geronimo, Bates, and Reneau.

5. I think XU is pretty good, as others have said. Seems clear they’ll shoot well but I would also suggest they outperformed shooting expectation on Friday.

6. Conversely IU may have underperformed slightly from 3. Kopp and Thompson, in particular, had open looks they’ll hit more than not and missed them.

7. haven’t mentioned the two stars yet…what’s left to say? Enjoy the ride.

[Uspshoosier]

First game against real competition.  Emotions are going to be high and kids will be fired up.   3rd game of the year.   Kids and coaches are learning how refs are going to call the games this year.   I’m guessing the staff will address this.  If it’s something that’s still costing points later in the year then it will be problem but this early on in the feel out process not a big deal in my opinion   Every game each player makes winning and losing plays.   There is no such thing  as a perfect game.    These kids  are not robots no matter what team you are talking about.      While I’m typing this Tulsa kid hits a 3 to start the game and just  got hit with a Tech while going back down the court.   All teams are going to have to adjust to this all year  

[HoosierAloha]

11 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Okay? Awesome!! (?) He was like 1-4 (+/- 1) from inside the arc in the first half. (That's not good and is losing basketball) I believe he was under 40% from inside the arc last season. Thank you for making the point clear in recalling his one make from inside the arc in the first half.

 

10 hours ago, J34 said:

To say that's losing basketball, after a big road win, seems a little like wishful thinking. Not a huge MK fan myself, but the guy did score some crucial points down the stretch (=winning basketball). e & e

 

9 hours ago, J34 said:

You're only as good as your last shot. When you bury a 3 and knock down 2 free throws in crunch time, that's winning basketball. The rest is paralysis by over analalys! On to the next one.

Yes, the 3 and making two free throws was winning basketball. The rest is dissecting the game to get better and hopefully our coaches and players who are getting paid a lot of money to win are doing the same. Do you not want the team to get better...?

That was quite the change in your stance.

[J34]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

 

Yes, the 3 and making two free throws was winning basketball. The rest is dissecting the game to get better and hopefully our coaches and players who are getting paid a lot of money to win are doing the same. Do you not want the team to get better...?

That was quite the change in your stance.

Change in stance? I almost literally said the same thing. I think it's wishful thinking that MK is going to improve on his 58% 3pt shooting. Maybe the conversation should be how our 6th year starting pf is playing around 20mpg and averaging 5pg, 35%fg, 50%ft, and 11%3 3fg.

As far as getting better? That's why the windshield is bigger than the rear view mirror!

e&e

[HoosierAloha]

6 hours ago, IU - Kaulie said:

I disagree.  I’m in the camp that doesn't get the Kopp hate.  I have never really understood it.  He is by far our best option at the position.  He knocked down the baseline jumper after he put it on the floor in the first half.  He made a huge three and free throws in crunch time.  His defense is very underrated.  He continues to get his hands on a lot of balls and is usually in the right place.  I noticed in the first half he had a couple of digs and deflections that caused them to get hung up.  He also forced a turnover because he was in the right place and they turned it over because he was basically just in the way.  His perimeter defense is tough and underrated and he is always talking out there.  He will get beat off the dribble by elite athletes so I’m not saying he’s perfect.

I just think a lot of the criticism he receives on here is unfair.  I want Kopp playing a lot of minutes on this team.

Where is the Kopp hate? He is a Hoosier and hasn't done anything to hurt anyone or bring negative attention to the program.

Kopp is what he is. He tried to do too much last season to the point he hurt the team. Taking 2 pointers on this squad is not the best we could be doing. I'd love to see consistent Kopp from behind the arc where teams have to mark him throughout a game. Yes, Kopp can make a play or two on defense but the stats and eye test show that he's one of the weaker defenders on this team and below average.

The final point with that is when Woody had the chance to get Kopp out on the defense he brought in Gallo.

[HoosierHoopster]

36 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

First game against real competition.  Emotions are going to be high and kids will be fired up.   3rd game of the year.   Kids and coaches are learning how refs are going to call the games this year.   I’m guessing the staff will address this.  If it’s something that’s still costing points later in the year then it will be problem but this early on in the feel out process not a big deal in my opinion   Every game each player makes winning and losing plays.   There is no such thing  as a perfect game.    These kids  are not robots no matter what team you are talking about.      While I’m typing this Tulsa kid hits a 3 to start the game and just  got hit with a Tech while going back down the court.   All teams are going to have to adjust to this all year  

And we had a ton of time between games, not as bad as having no time in between but too much is rarely good, rust etc

[HoosierAloha]

43 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

Your last two paragraphs says it all.

There’s a reason why teams like Michigan State are good year after year. Winning Basketball. Doing the little things that beget winning and avoiding things that cost you.

It's simple really, the more you make the right decisions the higher your chance at winning. We won a good rough game while making some poor decisions. That means we have plenty of room to grow and hopefully we're identifying what is and isn't winning basketball. Do the winning basketball things and stop doing the losing basketball things will increase your odds of winning.

[HoosierAloha]

14 minutes ago, J34 said:

Change in stance? I almost literally said the same thing. I think it's wishful thinking that MK is going to improve on his 58% 3pt shooting. Maybe the conversation should be how our 6th year starting pf is playing around 20mpg and averaging 5pg, 35%fg, 50%ft, and 11%3 3fg.

As far as getting better? That's why the windshield is bigger than the rear view mirror!

e&e

Definitely agree on Race, he's off to a rough start to the year and needs to get that figured out. He's going to be left open from 3 if he continues shooting like that.

I would LOVE for My bad to not only continue to shoot 58% from 3 but take more shots from there and zero from inside the arc. ~1.75 is far higher than ~.8. That is winning basketball. I believe he had a few great shooting noncon games last season too. Consistency from deep is the key here and what I've been saying for a year plus.

Are you suggesting the team not learn from their mistakes? Goodness I hope Woody isn't running the program like that.

[HoosierHoopster]

22 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Where is the Kopp hate? He is a Hoosier and hasn't done anything to hurt anyone or bring negative attention to the program.

Kopp is what he is. He tried to do too much last season to the point he hurt the team. Taking 2 pointers on this squad is not the best we could be doing. I'd love to see consistent Kopp from behind the arc where teams have to mark him throughout a game. Yes, Kopp can make a play or two on defense but the stats and eye test show that he's one of the weaker defenders on this team and below average.

The final point with that is when Woody had the chance to get Kopp out on the defense he brought in Gallo.

I’m somewhere in between in the Kopp discussion so far this year. 
- He has more space to work with now, that’s clear, and he is our best outside shooter — as a set shot, not a creator - he gives us the opportunity to spread the floor when shooting, and I’m glad to see him shooting, that bodes well for a more diverse offense.

- his D though is a lot more grey to me. On the positive side, and what I think is driving Woodson’s trust, he doesn’t make many mistakes defensively. He plays within the D, handles switches pretty well, and generally is in the right spot. But on the other hand he does not move well laterally, he absolutely gets beaten by quickness, and he doesn’t elevate well enough. He’s going to get beaten by quick and long wings, we’ll see more of that soon. But who, right now takes his spot? I want a more athletic attacking squad on the floor, I love the second unit, but right now — so far — none of them have shown enough defensively or from deep to claim it. 
 

Side note, think we’ll see much better focus from JG and Bates today

[Tasmanian Devil]

12 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

It's simple really, the more you make the right decisions the higher your chance at winning. We won a good rough game while making some poor decisions. That means we have plenty of room to grow and hopefully we're identifying what is and isn't winning basketball. Do the winning basketball things and stop doing the losing basketball things will increase your odds of winning.

Love this.

IU Basketball under Bob Knight was always known for being SMART. Sure, we had lots of talent, but we maximized that talent by making fewer mistakes. Hopefully Woody will incorporate that level of responsibility in our guys.

Remember the Steve Alford charity calendar fiasco? When that whole thing broke publicly Alford and the sorority were arguing back and forth in front of Knight over responsibility: Alford said he told them he was glad to help with the cause as long as they cleared it through the Athletic Department; the sorority girls claimed he had not made such a request.

Knight finally pulled Alford aside. “Their eligibility wasn’t at stake, Steve. YOUR eligibility was. You should have checked it out yourself.”

That level of personal responsibility ended up getting us a National Championship a year later. (Well, having Keith Smart helped, too )

 

[Brass Cannon]

2 hours ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

That might be.

But if it’s a point of emphasis, why take the chance?

Because they are humans and aren’t perfect and shouldn’t be penalized for something that isn’t a factor. Just like Xavier wasn’t penalized 

[HoosierAloha]

15 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I’m somewhere in between in the Kopp discussion so far this year. 
- He has more space to work with now, that’s clear, and he is our best outside shooter — as a set shot, not a creator - he gives us the opportunity to spread the floor when shooting, and I’m glad to see him shooting, that bodes well for a more diverse offense.

- his D though is a lot more grey to me. On the positive side, and what I think is driving Woodson’s trust, he doesn’t make many mistakes defensively. He plays within the D, handles switches pretty well, and generally is in the right spot. But on the other hand he does not move well laterally, he absolutely gets beaten by quickness, and he doesn’t elevate well enough. He’s going to get beaten by quick and long wings, we’ll see more of that soon. But who, right now takes his spot? I want a more athletic attacking squad on the floor, I love the second unit, but right now — so far — none of them have shown enough defensively or from deep to claim it. 
 

Side note, think we’ll see much better focus from JG and Bates today

I'm good with Kopp getting run until someone unseats him, if they can. If he's hitting 40+% from deep on quantity he's an asset. If he's hitting <40% from a high volume of 2s he's not helping the team. His defense is below average. If he were a few inches taller and bulkier he could defend the 4 but he's not.

To be crystal clear on all this, him lighting up bad teams is really doesn't concern me. He needs to be at his best, along with the rest of the team, when we play our most difficult opponents. Kopp going 4-5 from deep against east-west little university of the poor will only figure into outscoring them by 50 instead of 35 or whatever. Him making from deep against good competition is what matters.

[HoosierAloha]

19 minutes ago, Tasmanian Devil said:

Love this.

IU Basketball under Bob Knight was always known for being SMART. Sure, we had lots of talent, but we maximized that talent by making fewer mistakes. Hopefully Woody will incorporate that level of responsibility in our guys.

Remember the Steve Alford charity calendar fiasco? When that whole thing broke publicly Alford and the sorority were arguing back and forth in front of Knight over responsibility: Alford said he told them he was glad to help with the cause as long as they cleared it through the Athletic Department; the sorority girls claimed he had not made such a request.

Knight finally pulled Alford aside. “Their eligibility wasn’t at stake, Steve. YOUR eligibility was. You should have checked it out yourself.”

That level of personal responsibility ended up getting us a National Championship a year later. (Well, having Keith Smart helped, too )

 

It's why analytics is such a big deal in sports and business. Collect the data, turn it into useful information, and put your players in the best situations to win (or to make the most money).

[Tasmanian Devil]

12 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Because they are humans and aren’t perfect and shouldn’t be penalized for something that isn’t a factor. Just like Xavier wasn’t penalized 

If it is a point of emphasis, it IS a factor.

Is it a dumb rule? Maybe. And should it be applied equally? Without question.

But all because it may be a stupid rule or another team wasn’t called when maybe they should have, all that matters in the end is “did WE do anything which we could be penalized for?”

That’s the ONLY thing that matters. Control what YOU can control.