(2023) - PF Arrinten Page to USC

[IU Scott 2,375]

2 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I don’t buy it. I follow all the trends. Teams don’t lose their entire starting 5 and not replace them with Starter quality talent and hold ground. Doesn’t happen. That means you have 5 bench guys taking on roles that are completely new to them. Even if talent of the bench is excellent and it appears pretty good it’s a down year. Staff has a tough puzzle to solve. There are still ways to ease the pain. JHS returns? Trayce returns, lol. Transfer portal? Even still big things will have to happen to project top 4 big.



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So next year this can be our starting lineup

JHS 

Bates 

Banks 

Geronimo 

Reneau

To me that is a top 25 team and bring these guys off the bench.

Galloway

Cupps 

Newton

Duncomb

Gunn

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,737]

So next year this can be our starting lineup
JHS 
Bates 
Banks 
Geronimo 
Reneau
To me that is a top 25 team and bring these guys off the bench.
Galloway
Cupps 
Newton
Duncomb
Gunn

We had this discussion last week. Does JHS return? Does Bates return? Do we lose guys to transfer portal? Are the guys we love as good objectively and as ready as they will be need to be? We haven’t seen many of them play a single game.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 46,737]

So you think that Illinois and Ohio State will not be up to the task this year? Michigan is down four starters, and Purdue is down three starters.
that’s most of the rest of the projected top third of the conference.

Illinois ripped the transfer portal.

Ohio state a great recruiting class and ripped the TP.

Michigan returns an All American center and has a good recruiting class and they are still down.

Purdue has a world class coach, returns a 7’3” center that puts up killer stats per minute and great front court depth, but they will still be way down from last year.




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[Uspshoosier 44,207]

16 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

They have to field a team next year? We have a “top of the line” NIL program. That should get us 2 talents a year with our million dollar plus recruiting budget. 2024 recruiting might be great with a good season. We hope. We need. But 2023 was a critical class with projected loss of best players. If the staff acted like 23 was a down year and didn’t recruit guys as the waited for the portal I’d feel better. I’d feel fine. But they tried and tried and tried. All that projected playing time and NIL to offer and you can’t land a couple stars with front court time in abundance is just a thing to make ya say hmmmm.


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Yep they will have to field a team next year.  That’s why I’m not panicked and will leave that up to other people.   Some how some way 13 or 12 kids will be on scholarship.  I follow trends also and the fact that the staff hasn’t blindly filled these spots with players just to fill them tells me they were not that worried about some of these “misses”     Now if they started filling players like the April’s, Hoetzel, prillers and gelons then I might or changed my tune but the fact that I read reports even before some of these kids were on their officials that the staff wasnt sweating some of the outcomes of some of these recruitments because they were expecting to utilize the portal heavily unlike last year because now they will be able to offer PT.   They would take the commitments from the high schoolers but it wasn’t life or death to land them.    Some of discounting the front court coming back but the other teams in the Page recruitment used it against IU and put in his head where would his playing time come from with what IU had on its roster.    Recruiting is what it is.    Some are going to panic about it  and others won’t.   Just another 30 day before the season starts off season talking point 

[rayl456 388]

13 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I’m not paid enough to figure that out. I don’t know their internal plans for 23/24. I imagine they go hard for 2 or 3 transfer portal guys. Get the right guys. Put the NIL to work. Whatever it takes to have better recruiting efficiency. They made a mess of 23 recruiting but they still have hope. Hoping internally they figure some things out.


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So, let them figure it out.  Have some faith.  You've stated your opinion.  Time to enjoy this season.  Go Hoosiers!  I'm older...72.  I'm not going to hyperventilate over 18 year old kids.  It's entertainment.  Nothing more.

[J34 1,234]

1 minute ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Illinois ripped the transfer portal.

Ohio state a great recruiting class and ripped the TP.

Michigan returns an All American center and has a good recruiting class and they are still down.

Purdue has a world class coach, returns a 7’3” center that puts up killer stats per minute and great front court depth, but they will still be way down from last year.




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You lost me at "world class" coach. With the talent he's had through the years, and no final fours, I'd go with a good coach, and better person.

Investing so much energy worrying about our roster, a full season before our projected best team in awhile,  is not good for your health.

We'll know more about our coaching, recruiting, and overall future after(or mid-season) the season.

 

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,737]

So, let them figure it out.  Have some faith.  You've stated your opinion.  Time to enjoy this season.  Go Hoosiers!  I'm older...72.  I'm not going to hyperventilate over 18 year old kids.  It's entertainment.  Nothing more.

Good for you. You should. Unlike some, I enjoy the roster building/management side of things. As I’ve said so many times, Transfer portal keeps the dream alive. I’ve historically been ahead of the trends with all things IU because I can view them objectively the same way I view other programs building.

Now if it weren’t for transfer portal I really would be pushing the red button. It’s a rare year you losing maybe an entire starting 5. Race and Trayce may not have been counted on returning so we do have some “starters” on the bench.

Anyway, go Hoosiers. This is all good discussion 30 days before the season. I say we keep it going. Lol


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[WayneFleekHoosier 46,737]

You lost me at "world class" coach. With the talent he's had through the years, and no final fours, I'd go with a good coach, and better person.
Investing so much energy worrying about our roster, a full season before our projected best team in awhile,  is not good for your health.
We'll know more about our coaching, recruiting, and overall future after(or mid-season) the season.
 

Lol. Good for my health? That’s a good one.

With the work I do, worrying about IU’s recruiting is small potatoes. That’s my entertainment. Lol

Painter is world class with XOs. Almost always gets better results than his recruiting rankings and if you watch his style great sets/spacing/game plans.

Can’t wait for the season, love this team.


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[cthomas 5,917]

From my perspective, I love having Mike Woodson as our coach. I was a big fan of his during his playing days and was happy for his NBA days. I don't buy that coaching college kids is more difficult than coaching NBA guys. As CMW said, it's just basketball. Nobody understands IU basketball better than CMW. His knowledge of the game is at the highest level. He has a great staff and I believe he will always put a product on the court that we can be proud of.

[Stuhoo 75,564]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Illinois ripped the transfer portal.

Ohio state a great recruiting class and ripped the TP.

Michigan returns an All American center and has a good recruiting class and they are still down.

Purdue has a world class coach, returns a 7’3” center that puts up killer stats per minute and great front court depth, but they will still be way down from last year.




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Illinois most certainly did not “rip the transfer portal“. Shannon is a fantastic get for them, but Mayer has pretty much been mediocre his entire four years at Baylor but is kinda famous because he had a great tournament two years ago and has a super cool mullet, and the third transfer player they got has played a total of about 10 minutes of college basketball and took a redshirt his first year at Baylor.

Matthew Mayer four year stat averages: 15.5 mpg, 6.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.9 asst, 0.9 to,  42%fg, 65%ft, 34% 3pt. 126 games played, 33 starts (all last year).

And Painter, who I really really like, is a “world-class coach” who has never been to a final four, and had a 12th place and 10th place finish in the past nine years. He’s pretty good but he’s no savant. Btw, Painter’s super productive per- minute big (and he certainly is) has never averaged 20 mpg and got pulled for defensive deficiencies routinely last year.

 

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

3 hours ago, cthomas said:

The thing that I hope we never lose sight of is that we all want the same thing, IU being great in basketball again. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. I state my opinion and others state theirs. I tell my wife all the time that she is married to an idiot. I enjoy the back and forth and never take anything personally. It's all in good fun and I'm looking forward to a great season. I can't wait to see this team play.

Absolutely, I doubt there is anyone on this site that doesn't want IU to win every game every year. It's interesting to see and laugh at the different perspectives. Overall, we (as an athletic program) are great with the PR game but the on court/field and sustained successes are lacking. It's great we have a loyal basketball following or this program wouldn't have a chance. There isn't anything to take personally just different perspectives. Echo chambers are a great way to place blinders on and lead to ignorance.

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

3 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

You don’t follow recruiting too closely do you?  Every impact player we could have a chance with is spoken for.  Assuming we get a Reneau or Bates is not a normal thing.  (Yes, it’s happened twice but it’s incredibly rare).  The guys that wait until spring are few and far between. Most players want to commit before their HS seasons start. The pickings of 2023 recruits is incredibly thin at this point unless some diamond in the rough happens. 
 

Thus, transfer portal. 

Counting on decommits from coaching changes as a recruiting strategy is dangerous. Snagging those players if we have open slots late in the recruiting cycle can elevate a class but we probably shouldn't depend on that happening every season. I'd much prefer to have solid high school recruits and pepper in the occasional outstanding recruit or late bloomer.

[Stuhoo 75,564]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Absolutely, I doubt there is anyone on this site that doesn't want IU to win every game every year. It's interesting to see and laugh at the different perspectives. Overall, we (as an athletic program) are great with the PR game but the on court/field and sustained successes are lacking. It's great we have a loyal basketball following or this program wouldn't have a chance. There isn't anything to take personally just different perspectives. Echo chambers are a great way to place blinders on and lead to ignorance.

Great post!

Yes—of course we have crimson colored glasses. But I would suggest that the grass isn’t always greener; especially if Woody is the answer. And that’s still an “if.”

But I will not accept that Matthew Mayer is any good— that is objectively non-negotiable.

[Stuhoo 75,564]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Counting on decommits from coaching changes as a recruiting strategy is dangerous. Snagging those players if we have open slots late in the recruiting cycle can elevate a class but we probably shouldn't depend on that happening every season. I'd much prefer to have solid high school recruits and pepper in the occasional outstanding recruit or late bloomer.

Again strongly agree.

But as Wayne and most have said, the portal is an extremely viable option.

[HoosierAloha 29,887]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Good for you. You should. Unlike some, I enjoy the roster building/management side of things. As I’ve said so many times, Transfer portal keeps the dream alive. I’ve historically been ahead of the trends with all things IU because I can view them objectively the same way I view other programs building.

Now if it weren’t for transfer portal I really would be pushing the red button. It’s a rare year you losing maybe an entire starting 5. Race and Trayce may not have been counted on returning so we do have some “starters” on the bench.

Anyway, go Hoosiers. This is all good discussion 30 days before the season. I say we keep it going. Lol


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This, so much this.

I don't want just a one hit wonder from IU once or twice during a coaches tenure. I want to see IU back to the days where you can pencil them in for a top 4 finish in the Big 1.o, advancing in the field of 64, and to know they're going to give all the e and e an opponent can handle and more.

Sustaining that isn't snagging a couple of solid recruits who will need some time to adjust to college to be difference makers and praying you land impact recruits in April and/or hoping for great transfers. If our NIL is on the level of offering hundreds of thousands to transfer players I feel better about it. That was the precedence set this past free agent period. Will we rise to that level or keep talking?

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,737]

Illinois most certainly did not “rip the transfer portal“. Shannon is a fantastic get for them, Mayer has pretty much been mediocre his entire four years at Baylor but is kinda famous because he had a great tournament two years ago and has a super cool mullet, and the third transfer player they got has played a total of about 10 minutes of college basketball and took a redshirt his first year at Baylor.
Matthew Mayer four year stat averages: 15.5 mpg, 6.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.9 asst, 0.9 to,  42%fg, 65%ft, 34% 3pt. 126 games played, 33 starts (all last year).
And Painter, who I really really like, is a “world-class coach” who has never been to a final four, and had a 12th place and 10th place finish in the past nine years. He’s pretty good but he’s no savant. Btw, Painter’s super productive per- minute big (and he certainly is) has never averaged 20 mpg and got pulled for defensive deficiencies routinely last year.
 

Illinois had the 2nd ranked transfer portal class in the nation. All 3 top 100 recruits. 2 of them 6’9”.

Illinois has the #10 ranked recruiting class. #33, 53, 72, 109

Coleman Hawkins, RJ Melendez can play. Luke Goode is ok.

Great coach.

The only thing consensus about Illinois is mixed expectations. I think they will be good. But they have significant ?s despite top 10 recruiting class and top 3 transfer class.

We differ in opinion on Painter and that’s okay. Final four talk with Purdue is silly, they can’t get a top 10 recruiting class to save their lives. Never/rarely get a 5 star. Swanigan? His results far exceed their recruiting almost every year. I don’t know what to think about Purdue this year, they should be way down. They will be compared to last year.

All these teams you mentioned dropped significantly in national rankings just like we will. Not sure I get the point.


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[Stuhoo 75,564]

41 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Illinois had the 2nd ranked transfer portal class in the nation. All 3 top 100 recruits. 2 of them 6’9”.

Illinois has the #10 ranked recruiting class. #33, 53, 72, 109

Coleman Hawkins, RJ Melendez can play. Luke Goode is ok.

Great coach.

The only thing consensus about Illinois is mixed expectations. I think they will be good. But they have significant ?s despite top 10 recruiting class and top 3 transfer class.

We differ in opinion on Painter and that’s okay. Final four talk with Purdue is silly, they can’t get a top 10 recruiting class to save their lives. Never/rarely get a 5 star. Swanigan? His results far exceed their recruiting almost every year. I don’t know what to think about Purdue this year, they should be way down. They will be compared to last year.

All these teams you mentioned dropped significantly in national rankings just like we will. Not sure I get the point.


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We disagree about the quality of Illinois portal guys. They got one big time guy and one mediocre but famous guy.

Two tall guys? Yes, Mayer is tall, but he’s also a terrible rebounder, and a big that takes about half his shots from 3, where he is a low percentage shooter. Last year he took over 4 three pointers a game and made 32.4%. The other tall guy may or may not crack their rotation. Baylor didn’t want him.

I largely agree with everything you said about Painter, but he’s got some serious guard problems for the near future. If Woody leaves us with a guard rotation approximating David Jenkins, Brandon Newman, and freshmen Braden Smith and Loyer THEN I’ll be worried.

[go iu bb 4,787]

It sounds like we should just shut down the basketball program since it's doomed anyways. I'll miss it 

[Tasmanian Devil 1,506]

On 10/10/2022 at 10:47 PM, Stuhoo said:

 

Besides, in the past five years Calipari’s best years were  one Elite 8 and one Sweet Sixteen while rolling through about 100 players that didn’t stay at UK long enough to unpack their suitcases. 
 

Calipari hasn’t done squat since KAT.

Does Cal do an absolutely phenomenal job coaching up talented frosh and getting them to play together? Without question. But with the yearly roster turnover, UK is going to be perpetually young. That inexperience is too much for his teams to overcome, no matter how talented.

It’s interesting to note that of the two teams to truly embrace one-and-done (Duke and UK), each only have a single title - which was won as a direct result of senior leadership (Quinn Cook; Darius Miller).

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,737]

Calipari hasn’t done squat since KAT.
Does Cal do an absolutely phenomenal job coaching up talented frosh and getting them to play together? Without question. But with the yearly roster turnover, UK is going to be perpetually young. That inexperience is too much for his teams to overcome, no matter how talented.
It’s interesting to note that of the two teams to truly embrace one-and-done (Duke and UK), each only have a single title - which was won as a direct result of senior leadership (Quinn Cook; Darius Miller).

This is a common take but it’s wrong. UK won title in 2011. Since

21-12. NIT
29-11 runner up
38-1 final four. Thank god Wisconsin
27-9 2nd round
32-6 E8
26-11 S16
30-7 E8
25-6 Covid cancel top seed likely 1 or 2
9-16 terrible year. Covid. Definitely a WTF
26-8 1st round upset.

Any team in America would take these results except maybe Duke, lol.


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