IUBB @ O$U - 2/21/22 @ 7:00 on FS1-TV

[Chris007 47,801]

4 minutes ago, IU - Kaulie said:

Thank for sharing.  
I’m sorry if this is a stupid question but what are the responsibilities for that position? 

It changes with every school. It used to be they did video work, scheduled hotels & food for away trips, basically anything but coaching on the court during practice.

I think with Armond it's just being close to Woodson, who he has coached with for many years. Bouncing ideas off of him and helping him make the in-game decisions and as USPS said being his right-hand man. 

[IUFAN1976 3,971]

28 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

 

https://iuhoosiers.com/news/2021/6/9/mens-basketball-armond-hill-named-director-of-basketball-administration-for-hoosiers.aspx
Woodys right hand man 

That position doesn’t seem to be working 

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

2 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

All valid statements that I can’t and won’t try to answer.  The only thing I know is we can’t call for a new coach to be fired after 1 year.  If that happens, we will have trouble landing any good coach.  
 

I know you have specific examples pertaining to our defense but I do know it’s our defense that is keeping us in games against good teams and it’s given us a chance to win those games.  I can’t support our offense though, it does leave a lot to be desired.  I figured we would run the motion offense since that what Woody played as a college player.  Woodson did say the D was ahead of the O, maybe this is the best it gets his year.  Maybe his O is too complex for these current players to grasp in 1 year.  It does seem to be this O is centered around TJD, not a good fit for playing in the B10.

X needs to quit shooting so much!  I am not a fan and it would not bother me if he left after this year.  Not showing a sense of urgency at the end of regulation and losing your man on D was indicative of how he has played this year.  His head seems to easily wonder and he loses focus, just like when he fouled out and got a tech in the process.  I still think he is bipolar 

Who is calling for him to be fired after 1 year?

Woody needs to be better. He doesn't need an off-season to be better. He needs to be better today. Stating the defense was ahead of the offense is great material to provide to all the talking heads back in August, but he's had how many months to make it better than post and pray? If the offense is too complex for these current players to grasp in year 1 we should have been implementing something between "so complex that the players can't grasp in year 1" and post and pray.

It's amazing we eat up some of the crap that is being spewed out and run with it. This team has more talent than the record indicates and has been downright awful in many situations. That shouldn't be a pattern in year 1 or year 30. We can and should be better than that.

[IU - Kaulie 1,930]

9 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

It changes with every school. It used to be they did video work, scheduled hotels & food for away trips, basically anything but coaching on the court during practice.

I think with Armond it's just being close to Woodson, who he has coached with for many years. Bouncing ideas off of him and helping him make the in-game decisions and as USPS said being his right-hand man. 

That was Walsh’s position last year correct?  I have heard Walsh was/is very good but I had never heard of this guy.  Have to wonder if he is sitting in the right chair with everyone we have on our staff.  I have to trust CMW knows what he is doing I guess *for now.

[HoosierHoopster 7,283]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

 

I'm going to weigh in with some knowledge of what matters:

All of this team's problems are fixable--nothing that a win or two won't cure. This is a team that has roster flaws, but a win against Maryland will solve a lot of natural frustrations.

That hasn't always been the case in the past (i.e., last year).

Agree.

We're all really frustrated, a 5-game losing streak is hard to take and has our NCAA hopes in limbo after looking great earlier, but I think we win 3 of the next 4 -- I don't think I'm wearing crimson glasses, I just think the home W's will get the team going again, until we lose at PU. Then, we probably need at least 1 W in the B1G tourney, maybe, not sure, but anyway, it's time to start winning again, and winning and getting back to the tourney should turn things back around.

And if Rob can just get back, that would help a Hell of a lot. We're really missing him.

[str8baller 5,877]

7 hours ago, Trish said:

We still have shot at dancing.

We just have to win out regular season and win two games in the B1G.

Easy! 

Ha…I think two wins in season (Maryland and one of rutgers/minny) plus a win in BTT gets us in with 19 wins. Just barely. 

5 hours ago, JSHoosier said:

I actually had to go back and read that again just to make sure.  If a bunch of college level players can't grasp the pick and roll, yikes.

I kind of disagree. P n Roll has 4 options. You need smart players to read those and skilled players to execute. We have neither. For example none of our bigs can pop. 
 

You don’t necessarily need athletic players especially just to initiate the offense which is what Stevens at butler and the mid 2010s spurs did. Both smart and skilled tho. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,866]

1 minute ago, str8baller said:

Ha…I think two wins in season (Maryland and one of rutgers/minny) plus a win in BTT gets us in with 19 wins. Just barely. 

I kind of disagree. P n Roll has 4 options. You need smart players to read those and skilled players to execute. We have neither. For example none of our bigs can pop. 
 

You don’t necessarily need athletic players especially just to initiate the offense which is what Stevens at butler and the mid 2010s spurs did. Both smart and skilled tho. 

We need to get away from the pick n roll. God I can't wait for the day it dies out of basketball as an entire offensive system. We need ball movement and player movement. You use the pick n roll at times only and not as the only thing. We did that garbage under Archie and we sucked then, we suck now. Nothing has changed with the offense. It isn't free flowing like Woodson said it'd be. It's the exact same pick  n roll crap from the last 4 years. Get these dudes moving and make the defense actually work and you'll see a team getting buckets for once. 

[str8baller 5,877]

7 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Agree.

We're all really frustrated, a 5-game losing streak is hard to take and has our NCAA hopes in limbo after looking great earlier, but I think we win 3 of the next 4 -- I don't think I'm wearing crimson glasses, I just think the home W's will get the team going again, until we lose at PU. Then, we probably need at least 1 W in the B1G tourney, maybe, not sure, but anyway, it's time to start winning again, and winning and getting back to the tourney should turn things back around.

And if Rob can just get back, that would help a Hell of a lot. We're really missing him.

I think rutgers at home and minny on the road are coin flips at best.  
 

So probably a 10-15% chance at the scenario you’re describing. That’s probably gets us in the tourney tho. 

[str8baller 5,877]

2 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

We need to get away from the pick n roll. God I can't wait for the day it dies out of basketball as an entire offensive system. We need ball movement and player movement. You use the pick n roll at times only and not as the only thing. We did that garbage under Archie and we sucked then, we suck now. Nothing has changed with the offense. It isn't free flowing like Woodson said it'd be. It's the exact same pick  n roll crap from the last 4 years. Get these dudes moving and make the defense actually work and you'll see a team getting buckets for once. 

I agree. Works for some. We’re way too unskilled. We’d be better off with the stupid Crean/Calipari dribble drive and let XJ beat people off the dribble (the thought of which makes me puke).  The problem there is it’s tough to play Race and TJD at the same time.  
 

Woody deserves some criticism but the more I think on it, the more I really dislike our personnel situation. 

[HoosierHoopster 7,283]

4 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I think rutgers at home and minny on the road are coin flips at best.  
 

So probably a 10-15% chance at the scenario you’re describing. That’s probably gets us in the tourney tho. 

10-15% seems exceptionally low to me, but we'll see. Rutgers can be tough, but it's at home. Minny is OK, but it's on the road. We should've won the game against OSU. I think we pull it out.

[RaceToTheTop 27,071]

39 minutes ago, str8baller said:

I think rutgers at home and minny on the road are coin flips at best.  
 

So probably a 10-15% chance at the scenario you’re describing. That’s probably gets us in the tourney tho. 

Two coin flips have a 25% of being called right.  Pom puts it at about 30% to win the next three, Tarvik about 40%.

[MikeRoberts 7,353]

7 hours ago, Chris007 said:

I don't think he is the coach in waiting. I'm not even sure he will be here next year. I think he is frustrated that his voice is not heard as much as he would like. I think that goes with Hunter also. Woody is listening to guys he's coached with for years more so than guys on his staff.

Dane made some mistakes in recruiting this summer also. It's weird because are we hearing more about this now because we've lost 5 games in a row or because coaches aren't happy talking more. 

He tried last night it looked like to get Kopp back in to guard Branham with about 3-4 minutes left but Woody was not listening to him, finally put him in with about 45 seconds to go. 

I recall Woody saying things like “this isn’t about me, I’m humble” but won’t listen to his staff? That doesn’t equate

[8bucks 6,588]

I don't think he is the coach in waiting. I'm not even sure he will be here next year. I think he is frustrated that his voice is not heard as much as he would like. I think that goes with Hunter also. Woody is listening to guys he's coached with for years more so than guys on his staff.
Dane made some mistakes in recruiting this summer also. It's weird because are we hearing more about this now because we've lost 5 games in a row or because coaches aren't happy talking more. 
He tried last night it looked like to get Kopp back in to guard Branham with about 3-4 minutes left but Woody was not listening to him, finally put him in with about 45 seconds to go. 

I have worried about whether Woody listened or valued the assistants appropriately all year. Just a vibe I get. I rarely heard Woody talk about his assistants post game. I don’t listen to all so I could have missed but the ones I did watch it just struck me as odd that all coaching comments were “I” this or that. It has just been a working theory of mine but if we lose assistants this year, especially Fiife this could be a huge problem. Not that Fife is a legendary coach but he has always stayed awhile at each stop and him leaving his alma mater after one year would strongly suggest a problem.

Do you know if Dane was recruited by Woody or by Dolson? I know that Woody was POd when the rumors were that we were interviewing/hiring Matta. Woody thought he had the job before that leak and was not happy. I found it odd that a week later they both were announced. I assumed Dolson explained things to Woody and all was well but now I wonder if Woody had less say in his staff than he wanted.



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[Golfman25 5,917]

5 hours ago, reconmkd said:

As much as I didn't want to listen to any post game analysis, I needed some background noise. But Assembly Call had a comment that completely stuck out. In the second half, TJD on the bench, we made a run. During that run, the offense was moving and our perimeter players were making shots. As soon as TJD checked back in, the offense stopped moving and went back to force feeding the post and standing around. Their next comment truly hit home. Why can't the offense move like it was and still have TJD on the floor. This not only happened last night, but the Purdue game as well. 

I'll answer with a story from my "coaching the kids days."  Young group, maybe 4-5th grade.  5-6 pre season practices and we work a lot on passing the ball, moving, etc.  We get to the first game and my instructions are look to make the pass, cut, move the ball around, etc.  We get the ball on offense, and heck yeah, they did a great job of passing the ball around.  Gave up a bunch of open shots to do it.  I call time out, get them over, and say "guys, what's going on?  Why aren't we shooting?"  Their answer -- "you didn't tell us too."  :)

Now granted, these guys aren't that young and should know better how to make an offense work.  But if the coach is telling them to work thru TJD, that's what they are goind to do.  Even if they have to force it, and it ends up in a turnover like last night.  When there is no TJD, they have no choice but run an offense and move.  

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

27 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

I'll answer with a story from my "coaching the kids days."  Young group, maybe 4-5th grade.  5-6 pre season practices and we work a lot on passing the ball, moving, etc.  We get to the first game and my instructions are look to make the pass, cut, move the ball around, etc.  We get the ball on offense, and heck yeah, they did a great job of passing the ball around.  Gave up a bunch of open shots to do it.  I call time out, get them over, and say "guys, what's going on?  Why aren't we shooting?"  Their answer -- "you didn't tell us too."  :)

Now granted, these guys aren't that young and should know better how to make an offense work.  But if the coach is telling them to work thru TJD, that's what they are goind to do.  Even if they have to force it, and it ends up in a turnover like last night.  When there is no TJD, they have no choice but run an offense and move.  

tl;dr

We have players comparable to your 4-5th grade team?

[RaceToTheTop 27,071]

3 hours ago, Chris007 said:

It changes with every school. It used to be they did video work, scheduled hotels & food for away trips, basically anything but coaching on the court during practice.

I think with Armond it's just being close to Woodson, who he has coached with for many years. Bouncing ideas off of him and helping him make the in-game decisions and as USPS said being his right-hand man. 

I think Larry Brown has a similar set of duties at Memphis.  The truth is he could very likely have had that position at IU had the whole SMU situation not ended his tenure there.  At Memphis they probably don’t care about those kind of things or they wouldn’t have hired Penny.  And the truth is Brien is a really good X and O guy….which Hardaway needs.

[RaceToTheTop 27,071]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

tl;dr

We have players comparable to your 4-5th grade team?

Statistically, we are still better with TJD (per cbbanalytics).  Our top five in terms our production with them on the court compared to off is X, Race, TJD, Galloway and Kopp.

[Golfman25 5,917]

21 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

tl;dr

We have players comparable to your 4-5th grade team?

Reading is a skill.  

[Uspshoosier 47,306]

24 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

I think Larry Brown has a similar set of duties at Memphis.  The truth is he could very likely have had that position at IU had the whole SMU situation not ended his tenure there.  At Memphis they probably don’t care about those kind of things or they wouldn’t have hired Penny.  And the truth is Brien is a really good X and O guy….which Hardaway needs.

Brown is actually one of pennys 3 assistant coaches 

[RaceToTheTop 27,071]

13 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Brown is actually one of pennys 3 assistant coaches 

I know, I just assumed given his age he isn’t doing much of the recruiting.  My assumption is that is mainly Hardaway.