IUBB @ Michigan State - 02/12/22 @ 3:30 on Fox-TV

[MikeRoberts]

20 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I know it probably is different but everybody was picking UW 10th this year after losing 4 of their top 5 players.

That might be true but anyone that has watched Wisconsin basketball the last 20 years should know that is a mistake.

they develop their players and get unheralded guys to outplay their rankings every year. IU could start doing that but they have been the exact opposite of that

[HoosierAloha]

1 minute ago, MikeRoberts said:

That might be true but anyone that has watched Wisconsin basketball the last 20 years should know that is a mistake.

they develop their players and get unheralded guys to outplay their rankings every year. IU could start doing that but they have been the exact opposite of that

[IUFAN1976]

25 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Yes, it was obvious for awhile that the starting lineup was putting us in a hole for both halves. It took a suspension to change that!! It was like poor/lazy ball was being rewarded, although I'm not sure Woody can do much with it considering his offense has players just standing around.

It started out that we couldn't comment about e and e and the concern the offense struggle because it was only 6-8 games in. We had to wait at least 14ish (?) games before we post any critiques. When we saw the same things it was another excuse and some made up time frame. Rinse and repeat. I'm sure there is a process. Is it good enough, quick enough to get us any stability? Does that process involve baseline e and e? Do we just wait until we finally get some players or recruits that don't like being just mediocre?

He might have a lot to learn but doesn't have much time. If we're waiting for him to learn we're in quite a bit of trouble.

We’ve got to at least give him 3 full years, it may longer than that to change the culture 

[Brass Cannon]

12 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

We’ve got to at least give him 3 full years, it may longer than that to change the culture 

I honestly think we are the only fanbase that trots out this 3 years thing. 

[HoosierHoopster]

22 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I honestly think we are the only fanbase that trots out this 3 years thing. 

We're not. Most other programs give their coaches multiple years to integrate their own recruiting and build their teams. Our fanbase is about as rabid as a bball fanbase can get, "it's Indiana." Woodson has started pretty strong, I'm one who thinks he can build the program back to a legit steady competing for the top of conference team year in and year out. But it doesn't happen overnight, and 3-4 years is typical. My one area of concern is the lack of developing the outside game, but it's still year one and Woodson's history points to that happening with time

[Brass Cannon]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

We're not. Most other programs give their coaches multiple years to integrate their own recruiting and build their teams. Our fanbase is about as rabid as a bball fanbase can get, "it's Indiana." Woodson has started pretty strong, I'm one who thinks he can build the program back to a legit steady competing for the top of conference team year in and year out. But it doesn't happen overnight, and 3-4 years is typical. My one area of concern is the lack of developing the outside game, but it's still year one and Woodson's history points to that happening with time

I’m also for modified expectations for a few years. But this whole mindset of CMW getting a free pass on everything under the guise of “give him 3 year” is just insanity to me. 

[HoosierAloha]

Damn, BTN guys talking about Kopp adding nothing and staying in the starting lineup. Reward not getting it done but not getting suspended!

[IUFAN1976]

56 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Damn, BTN guys talking about Kopp adding nothing and staying in the starting lineup. Reward not getting it done but not getting suspended!

This article states the same thing but added many others too!

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-basketballs-offense-plummeting-in-advanced-metrics-at-an-inopportune-time/
 

My guess is he is too focused on his podcast instead of focused on playing basketball!

[HoosierHoopster]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

I’m also for modified expectations for a few years. But this whole mindset of CMW getting a free pass on everything under the guise of “give him 3 year” is just insanity to me. 

I don't think he gets a 'free pass' there's plenty of fair criticism. But the idea that he should suddenly turn around a program that hasn't been in the tourney since 2016? Well, that would be just insanity to me, and most.

[IUFAN1976]

3 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

I honestly think we are the only fanbase that trots out this 3 years thing. 

We can be a program that hires a coach to a program that has had problems and expect him to turn it around in year 1 and if he doesn’t, fire him.  You have to let him have at least several recruiting classes to allow him to possibly get the type of player that can and will fit into the type of play that he wants.  

[HoosierHoopster]

59 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Damn, BTN guys talking about Kopp adding nothing and staying in the starting lineup. Reward not getting it done but not getting suspended!

Really think Stewart should start. His outside shooting is hands down legit and creates spacing. With Galloway starting the defense is improved along with ball movement (no, not as point), Kopp is not shooting at the level where defenses have to worry about him.

Side note, IIRC Knight did the same suspension thing to Woodson, it worked for him. Here? I think it was a ridiculous move at a really inopportune time. There are all sorts of ways to enforce team rules, for what was just not a very big deal (and why all of them were back after just 1 game), that fall short of risking our season by sitting them as a group. Really think that was a bad decision (I'm probably in the minority here, and that's fine, reasonable minds will differ). I guaranty you guys like Izzo would not have risked their season over that. Hopefully, we'll see a very locked in, intense game from our Hoosiers tomorrow.

[IUFAN1976]

4 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I don't think he gets a 'free pass' there's plenty of fair criticism. But the idea that he should suddenly turn around a program that hasn't been in the tourney since 2016? Well, that would be just insanity to me, and most.

This 100%!!!  We won’t get anyone in here if that is the expectations from the administration 

[IUFAN1976]

1 minute ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Really think Stewart should start. His outside shooting is hands down legit and creates spacing. With Galloway starting the defense is improved along with ball movement (no, not as point), Kopp is not shooting at the level where defenses have to worry about him.

Side note, IIRC Knight did the same suspension thing to Woodson, it worked for him. Here? I think it was a ridiculous move at a really inopportune time. There are all sorts of ways to enforce team rules, for what was just not a very big deal (and why all of them were back after just 1 game), that fall short of risking our season by sitting them as a group. Really think that was a bad decision (I'm probably in the minority here, and that's fine, reasonable minds will differ). I guaranty you guys like Izzo would not have risked their season over that. Hopefully, we'll see a very locked in, intense game from our Hoosiers tomorrow.

Maybe we should try Bates!  Nothing else has worked 

[HoosierAloha]

4 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Really think Stewart should start. His outside shooting is hands down legit and creates spacing. With Galloway starting the defense is improved along with ball movement (no, not as point), Kopp is not shooting at the level where defenses have to worry about him.

Side note, IIRC Knight did the same suspension thing to Woodson, it worked for him. Here? I think it was a ridiculous move at a really inopportune time. There are all sorts of ways to enforce team rules, for what was just not a very big deal (and why all of them were back after just 1 game), that fall short of risking our season by sitting them as a group. Really think that was a bad decision (I'm probably in the minority here, and that's fine, reasonable minds will differ). I guaranty you guys like Izzo would not have risked their season over that. Hopefully, we'll see a very locked in, intense game from our Hoosiers tomorrow.

I'm sure there is a ton of information we don't have so the suspension could have been light or heavy. I'd sure like to know the backstory here; was it the first time this happened, were there other incidents that led up to this, how were they handled, etc. It seems like it was an opportunity to get their attention.

I'd prefer P Stew, Gallo, and Race on the wings to start. The follow up to that is we have to get them moving and not just "posting and praying."

[HoosierAloha]

35 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

We can be a program that hires a coach to a program that has had problems and expect him to turn it around in year 1 and if he doesn’t, fire him.  You have to let him have at least several recruiting classes to allow him to possibly get the type of player that can and will fit into the type of play that he wants.  

I don't think anyone is wanting him fired this season, maybe there are a few (?). I would have liked to have seen a little more reinforcement of baseline standards to set a solid foundation. The turnovers getting better, for the most part, is nice to see. There are more concerns for sure.

Edit: We're also in college basketball free agency so it should be a little quicker than get a core group of freshmen and wait 3-4 years.

[Brass Cannon]

26 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I don't think he gets a 'free pass' there's plenty of fair criticism. But the idea that he should suddenly turn around a program that hasn't been in the tourney since 2016? Well, that would be just insanity to me, and most.

He doesn’t have to turn it around but there should be some improvement from the last guy that failed miserably. Especially when we didn’t really lose any contributors but supposedly added 3 guys that were supposed to be contributors. 

[HoosierX]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

Damn, BTN guys talking about Kopp adding nothing and staying in the starting lineup. Reward not getting it done but not getting suspended!

Agree that Kopp needs to play better, but he provides things that aren't as obvious.  Leadership is one of them as he was definitely the most vocal player during the Northwestern game. He is also underrated as a weak side defender, he knows where he's supposed to be.

[Hoosierfan2017]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I don't think he gets a 'free pass' there's plenty of fair criticism. But the idea that he should suddenly turn around a program that hasn't been in the tourney since 2016? Well, that would be just insanity to me, and most.

On the flip side, fans aren’t going to be patient for another few years when we haven’t seen IU in the tournament since 2016. It’s been over half a decade of bad basketball, and really a bad 10-15 years with a few good seasons. So, whether it’s fair or not, fans are out of patience. 

Plus, Woody has his own clock. He turns 64 next month. If we’re lucky we’ll get a decade out of him. That makes every season all the more important. 

[IUFAN1976]

9 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

On the flip side, fans aren’t going to be patient for another few years when we haven’t seen IU in the tournament since 2016. It’s been over half a decade of bad basketball, and really a bad 10-15 years with a few good seasons. So, whether it’s fair or not, fans are out of patience. 

Plus, Woody has his own clock. He turns 64 next month. If we’re lucky we’ll get a decade out of him. That makes every season all the more important. 

Us not getting to the tournament since 2016 isn’t his fault.  Those impatient fans will just have to jump ship and go cheer for someone else.  

[IUFAN1976]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

He doesn’t have to turn it around but there should be some improvement from the last guy that failed miserably. Especially when we didn’t really lose any contributors but supposedly added 3 guys that were supposed to be contributors. 

I believe there was but the players aren’t producing and they are shooting them selves in foot!  Hopefully we can get back on track with a home win against Wisky