2022-2023 IUBB Roster Projection

[HoosierHoopster]

1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Per minute/per 40 aren’t even really advanced stats lol. You can talk about how him and Kopp play different positions, but that’s an indictment of Geronimo. Didn’t he play on the perimeter in high school? He’s a 6’6 wing whose position has to be the 4 in college because he doesn’t have wing skills. Its similar to the situation with Justin Smith, though Smith was slightly bigger and a better player. It’s not an athleticism issue. Geronimo has great athleticism. He should have been able to take Kopp’s spot, but he couldn’t. We’re not talking about “Logan Duncomb isn’t any good because he couldn’t take Kopp’s spot.” Those two guys play completely different positions. Kopp and Geronimo don’t. It’s not like Kopp is LeBron James on the wing. He can’t handle the ball and he can’t really defend. So it’s not like we were getting typical “3” attributes from him. All we got was shooting, and that was suspect a lot of the time. They’re both 3/4s, and if Woody thought Geronimo was good enough to give us a big boost compared to what we were getting from Kopp, he would’ve played him more than 11 mpg.

This entire conversation started because of a post about wanting to move on from Trayce and Race. A reason for moving on was given - because Geronimo might transfer in that situation. I think that’s a ridiculous reason for wanting to move on from those two. However good Geronimo is or isn’t, he isn’t as good as either player separately, and he certainly isn’t as good as the two combined. I don’t want Geronimo to leave and I haven’t said otherwise. But in a hypothetical situation like this, I’m taking Trayce/Race every time and not thinking twice. 

 

So, first re how this conversation began, I've of course never said I wanted to move on from TJD and Race, it would be great if both came back -- but (imo) that's highly unlikely. The conversation is really about who can step up and how we'll be if both (or one of them) do leave. I have a maybe unrealistic hope that Race stays while TJD takes a shot at the pros. As to whether Geronimo is better, I think it's pretty clear his upside is much higher than Race's, fwiw, he's a better shooter, and I'd bet on him having a big time junior year. 

On positions and Kopp, again, JG did not play the wing spot, and Woodson, having brought in Kopp for his outside shooting, played Kopp (and Stew) for his outside shooting threat, to create space, and regardless how poorly he was shooting or playing. No one was 'beating out' Kopp, no matter who, and in any event he was never in competition with JG. Kopp was brought in for spacing, The comparison to J Smith is off too, though. Smith was never, in any way shape or form except in his own mind, a wing. He was a pure 4 who had no outside shot at all. Unlike him, Geronimo can play different positions, and I agree his future is at the wing -- buthe can shoot, his outside shot is smooth. I'm not concerned about his percentages because he hasn't shot it enough, I just see his form, the release, and his confidence in knocking down outside shots, including coming in cold off the bench, and in the NCAA tourney. He needs to continue to work on his handle, and grow his outside game including shooting off the bounce, but the form is very much there -- unlike Smith, who was just not a wing. . 

I'd bank on Geronimo moving to the wing (where I'd like to see him), but the handle growth has to be there. Regardless, he's clearly one of our best players, and will only be better next season.

[HoosierAloha]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Mins played-- Kopp 880, JG 430

Total turnovers- Kopp 32, JG 31

Total assists- Kopp 37, JG 9

JG is a walking turnover, currently. 

Can we count Kopp's 2PA as turnovers too?

I would suggest ignoring any and all conference records when it comes to turnovers between the two. It's not pretty.

[CSP]

12 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Can we count Kopp's 2PA as turnovers too?

I would suggest ignoring any and all conference records when it comes to turnovers between the two. It's not pretty.

I'm talking about playing on the perimeter. JG hasn't shown that ability and the staff knew that. His TO rate is absolutely atrocious. 

[HoosierAloha]

5 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I'm talking about playing on the perimeter. JG hasn't shown that ability and the staff knew that. His TO rate is absolutely atrocious. 

Soooo if JG's TO rate was absolutely atrocious what are we calling Kopp's TO rate in conference?

[CSP]

6 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Soooo if JG's TO rate was absolutely atrocious what are we calling Kopp's TO rate in conference?

Millers wasnt good in conference lol wtf

For the season, as a whole (we played 16 games that werent conference games btw)... JGs TO rate was awful. 

He isn't a 3, currently. 

[RaceToTheTop]

15 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I'm talking about playing on the perimeter. JG hasn't shown that ability and the staff knew that. His TO rate is absolutely atrocious. 

How about defending the perimeter?  Chipping in on the boards?  Driving and getting to the line?  There is more than just assist and turnover numbers to consider.

[ziggyiu]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Millers wasnt good in conference lol wtf

For the season, as a whole (we played 16 games that werent conference games btw)... JGs TO rate was awful. 

He isn't a 3, currently. 

Preach. I've seen some IU fans wanting Race, Trayce and JG on the floor. That's reliving this season's nightmares of clogging the lane and not being able to shoot from distance. 

[CSP]

2 minutes ago, ziggyiu said:

Preach. I've seen some IU fans wanting Race, Trayce and JG on the floor. That's reliving this season's nightmares of clogging the lane and not being able to shoot from distance. 

Ridiculous 

[CSP]

4 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

How about defending the perimeter?  Chipping in on the boards?  Driving and getting to the line?  There is more than just assist and turnover numbers to consider.

Defending the perimeter would be a nightmare. 

We wouldn't drive well at all.. because we couldn't swing the ball and get people in any sort of rotation brcsude we would be an awful passing team. 

We would defensive and offensive reb REALLY well though. 

[CSP]

JG also shot like 25-44 from line

[Hoosierfanyuh]

Feel like some of yall just agrue to argue lol

[RaceToTheTop]

3 minutes ago, ziggyiu said:

Preach. I've seen some IU fans wanting Race, Trayce and JG on the floor. That's reliving this season's nightmares of clogging the lane and not being able to shoot from distance. 

the two guys we had to help shoot from distance scored in double figures a total of 5 times in conference play and I believe shot about 33% from the field,  That really didn’t clear out the lane.

 

[RaceToTheTop]

6 minutes ago, btownqb said:

JG also shot like 25-44 from line

Mostly due to his start.  He hit 70% from the line from December on.

[RaceToTheTop]

Basically I feel that it would have been nice just to see him play the three to see how it went.  If you are going to play a weak conference schedule, seems like a perfect time to try that.  If we had time to experiment with Galloway at point guard, I think there was time to try JG at the 3.  Could have been a failure.  My opinion is that it was worth a look.

[CSP]

6 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Mostly due to his start.  He hit 70% from the line from December on.

Nice. Good find. 

[CSP]

4 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Basically I feel that it would have been nice just to see him play the three to see how it went.  If you are going to play a weak conference schedule, seems like a perfect time to try that.  If we had time to experiment with Galloway at point guard, I think there was time to try JG at the 3.  Could have been a failure.  My opinion is that it was worth a look.

In game isn't the time to experiment. They saw enough in practice to know. 

[RaceToTheTop]

Just now, btownqb said:

Nice. Good find. 

Thanks.  He was a horrible Fred throw shooter last year and started horrible this year…..culminated with a game where he was 2 of 8.  At that point the staff couldn’t play him at the end of games.  But he got much better as the season went along and really slowed down at the line.

[RaceToTheTop]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

In game isn't the time to experiment. They saw enough in practice to know. 

They also presumably saw Kopp hit shots in practice and thought that there wasn’t a reason to try JG there.  But practices don’t always translate.  Good practice might get you on the court, but good games are what is supposed to keep you there.

[CSP]

2 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

They also presumably saw Kopp hit shots in practice and thought that there wasn’t a reason to try JG there.  But practices don’t always translate.  Good practice might get you on the court, but good games are what is supposed to keep you there.

Right. For sure. But there are always qualifiers for each position.. his turnover rate made him N/A at that position.. for this season. 

To be clear.. I like JG. 

[IU - Kaulie]

This is what I hope happens.

G - X

G - JHS

G/F - Trey

F - Jordan

F - Race

Bench -

Leal

Kopp

Rob

Bates

Banks

Gunn

Portal - Big man.

Portal - Shooter.