2022-2023 IUBB Roster Projection

[RaceToTheTop 31,290]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

In game isn't the time to experiment. They saw enough in practice to know. 

They also presumably saw Kopp hit shots in practice and thought that there wasn’t a reason to try JG there.  But practices don’t always translate.  Good practice might get you on the court, but good games are what is supposed to keep you there.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 12,109]

2 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

They also presumably saw Kopp hit shots in practice and thought that there wasn’t a reason to try JG there.  But practices don’t always translate.  Good practice might get you on the court, but good games are what is supposed to keep you there.

Right. For sure. But there are always qualifiers for each position.. his turnover rate made him N/A at that position.. for this season. 

To be clear.. I like JG. 

[IU - Kaulie 2,101]

This is what I hope happens.

G - X

G - JHS

G/F - Trey

F - Jordan

F - Race

Bench -

Leal

Kopp

Rob

Bates

Banks

Gunn

Portal - Big man.

Portal - Shooter.

 

[Honkyman 1,670]

If Galloway hasn't developed a reliable outside shot by next season, he shouldn't start. 

[cthomas 6,628]

4 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Those three are our three best players and then there’s a huge gap between them and #4. Getting them back would be huge for the team’s success next year and the program’s momentum moving forward.

I certainly understand the argument. But have we seen the ceiling with that frontcourt? I'm not smart enough to know. I do think we are better with X coming back. I thought he grew more than anyone else during the course of the season. The personnel decisions are way above my pay grade. I'm just not sure, as much as I like our players, that most of them coming back gets IU to the next level in the conference. Some combination of the best of what we have and an influx of better talent seems to be the best way forward. Tough choices all around.

[Honkyman 1,670]

5 minutes ago, cthomas said:

nflux of better talent seems to be the best way forward. Tough choices all around.

"An influx of better talent"--easier said than done.  The coaches seem to be interested in Payton Sparks who may be an upgrade over Michael Durr but certainly not TJD or Race Thompson. Maybe IU is able to find a shooter better than Parker Stewart (39% from 3-point range) or Miller Kopp (36%) but I wouldn't hold my breath. An influx of better talent will more likely come from recruiting which means at least another year.

[ziggyiu 786]

1 hour ago, brumdog45 said:

the two guys we had to help shoot from distance scored in double figures a total of 5 times in conference play and I believe shot about 33% from the field,  That really didn’t clear out the lane.

 

I definitely never posted that they are the answer either. In fact, I've posted the opposite. IU needs a new 2 - 4 to improve on the worst offense in the B1G. If we're lucky enough to keep X and TJD, that's a great start. JG at the four and an improved Bates and a great freshman season from JHS would be nice, along with Trey developing an outside shoot. Though to be really competitive, IU needs to dip into the transfer portal for a 2 and/or 3 that can score at all three levels. 

[HoosierAloha 30,102]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Millers wasnt good in conference lol wtf

For the season, as a whole (we played 16 games that werent conference games btw)... JGs TO rate was awful. 

He isn't a 3, currently. 

I know it's easy to laugh off numbers when they don't agree with your statement. If a 19.1% TO rate was atrocious and awful does it change dependent on the player or suddenly become good when it's dropped to 19.0%?

Kopp turnover rate (season) - 13.1 % (conference) - 19.0%

Geronimo turnover rate (season) - 19.1% (conference) - 17.9 %

Why did Geronimo's turnover rate decrease when the competition increased? Why did Kopp's turnover rate increase when the competition increased?

We actually played 15 games that weren't conference regular season games (3 of them were technically still conference games). Both Kopp and Geronimo had less than a handful of turnovers in the postseason (5 games for Kopp and 4 for Geronimo) where Kopp probably had a slight advantage in TO% in postseason games.

Kopp is/was a shooter that wasn't really good at making shots. Kopp wasn't dribble driving anywhere as a wing. He occasionally took a few dribbles before shooting that was as good as a turnover because he wasn't making at a high enough percentage.  I'd prefer Geronimo more at the 4 and like what he could potentially do with more minutes. Kopp is what he is and didn't do what we needed him to do well enough. The numbers don't favor one over the other that much.

 

[Honkyman 1,670]

10 minutes ago, ziggyiu said:

IU needs to dip into the transfer portal for a 2 and/or 3 that can score at all three levels. 

This is fantasy. We won't get better shooting from the transfer portal than we got a year ago. That means we will get someone at the level of Miller Kopp, i.e., an even trade. There are very few truly talented players in the transfer portal and IU is competing against every other school. I hope IU can attract a player who "can score at all three levels" from the transfer portal. But I would be amazed if it happens. IU just isn't a good destination for transfers of that caliber unless one of our coaches has a previous relationship with that player. We stand a better chance at upgrading our talent the old fashioned way--recruiting from the high schools.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 12,109]

5 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I know it's easy to laugh off numbers when they don't agree with your statement. If a 19.1% TO rate was atrocious and awful does it change dependent on the player or suddenly become good when it's dropped to 19.0%?

Kopp turnover rate (season) - 13.1 % (conference) - 19.0%

Geronimo turnover rate (season) - 19.1% (conference) - 17.9 %

Why did Geronimo's turnover rate decrease when the competition increased? Why did Kopp's turnover rate increase when the competition increased?

We actually played 15 games that weren't conference regular season games (3 of them were technically still conference games). Both Kopp and Geronimo had less than a handful of turnovers in the postseason (5 games for Kopp and 4 for Geronimo) where Kopp probably had a slight advantage in TO% in postseason games.

Kopp is/was a shooter that wasn't really good at making shots. Kopp wasn't dribble driving anywhere as a wing. He occasionally took a few dribbles before shooting that was as good as a turnover because he wasn't making at a high enough percentage.  I'd prefer Geronimo more at the 4 and like what he could potentially do with more minutes. Kopp is what he is and didn't do what we needed him to do well enough. The numbers don't favor one over the other that much.

 

He played half the mins and half the same amount of TOs. Thats bad and the main reason he isn't an option at the 3. 

[cthomas 6,628]

19 minutes ago, Honkyman said:

"An influx of better talent"--easier said than done.  The coaches seem to be interested in Payton Sparks who may be an upgrade over Michael Durr but certainly not TJD or Race Thompson. Maybe IU is able to find a shooter better than Parker Stewart (39% from 3-point range) or Miller Kopp (36%) but I wouldn't hold my breath. An influx of better talent will more likely come from recruiting which means at least another year.

I agree. Which is why I said tough choices. The only thing that I think is certain is that we were not good enough this past season. For the most part, the kids played hard and didn't quit. So at the end of the day, talent was what separated us from the top of the conference. We need better talent. How and when we get that talent is the responsibility of the coaching staff.

[Chris007 62,605]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

He played half the mins and half the same amount of TOs. Thats bad and the main reason he isn't an option at the 3. 

JG said after one of the games late in the season that his ball handling wasn’t good enough, and his lateral movement wasn’t where it needed to be to play the 3.

[HoosierAloha 30,102]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

He played half the mins and half the same amount of TOs. Thats bad and the main reason he isn't an option at the 3. 

Geronimo's TO rate improved (slightly) as the season progressed and was actually better than the player that was an option at the 3. This does not compute for me.

Kopp was an option at the 3 because his TO rate wasn't atrocious against bad competition but against good competition he was still an option at the 3 even though his TO rate was worse than Geronimo's?

Could you help me understand this line of thinking?

[RaceToTheTop 31,290]

5 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

Kopp turnover rate (season) - 13.1 % (conference) - 19.0%

Geronimo turnover rate (season) - 19.1% (conference) - 17.9 %

 

 

I assume this is number from Tarvik;  Pom tells a similar story.  It puts Kopp at a turnover rate of 15.7% and Geronimo at 21.3%.  Basically the turnover rate for Geronimo was 40% higher for Geronimo based on possessions that lead to points, turnovers, or missed shots.  While that's certainly nice to have, I don't see the ball movement improvement when Kopp was in (and I certainly thought it noticeably improved when Galloway came in for Kopp).  The better ball handling certainly wasn't directly leading to more made baskets considering he shot horribly and he barely averaged over an assist per game......he actually had more games without an assist than he had more than 1.

[RaceToTheTop 31,290]

9 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

JG said after one of the games late in the season that his ball handling wasn’t good enough, and his lateral movement wasn’t where it needed to be to play the 3.

That's good enough for me.  I do think that he's capable of getting there and think that should have been a point emphasis last offseason.

[HoosierAloha 30,102]

1 minute ago, brumdog45 said:

I assume this is number from Tarvik;  Pom tells a similar story.  It puts Kopp at a turnover rate of 15.7% and Geronimo at 21.3%.  Basically the turnover rate for Geronimo was 40% higher for Geronimo based on possessions that lead to points, turnovers, or missed shots.  While that's certainly nice to have, I don't see the ball movement improvement when Kopp was in (and I certainly thought it noticeably improved when Galloway came in for Kopp).  The better ball handling certainly wasn't directly leading to more made baskets considering he shot horribly and he barely averaged over an assist per game......he actually had more games without an assist than he had more than 1.

Not even Torvik, sports reference or something. I wasn't trying to make the point that Geronimo should be playing the 3. I was making the point that there wasn't that much difference between Kopp and Geronimo in terms of TO%, even less so when you add in Kopp's "attempts" at shooting twos. Geronimo made progress while Kopp took a step back as the season progressed (started playing teams with a pulse). I don't think anyone would be arguing that they want Geronimo dribble driving. I wanted Kopp catching and shooting, definitely not trying to handle it or taking a few dribbles to take a turnover two.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 12,109]

21 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

JG said after one of the games late in the season that his ball handling wasn’t good enough, and his lateral movement wasn’t where it needed to be to play the 3.

Yup!

[HoosierHoopster 8,441]

36 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

JG said after one of the games late in the season that his ball handling wasn’t good enough, and his lateral movement wasn’t where it needed to be to play the 3.

And guess what he’s working on. Kid is a gym rat. Want to lay some dinero on how much his handle improves by the fall?

[str8baller 7,622]

2 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

the two guys we had to help shoot from distance scored in double figures a total of 5 times in conference play and I believe shot about 33% from the field,  That really didn’t clear out the lane.

 

No kidding. Race was a better 3pt shooter down the stretch than Stewart and Kopp. And JG was starting to step out more. I had as much confidence in him hitting a 3 as I did Stewart or Kopp. Low bar to clear, though. 

[Chris007 62,605]

11 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

And guess what he’s working on. Kid is a gym rat. Want to lay some dinero on how much his handle improves by the fall?

Yes I totally agree. When he said that was is off season plan, he went straight to the top of players I wanted back.