IUBB vs #13/12 Ohio State - 01/06/22 @ 7:00 on FS1

[mbredenk101 524]

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In addition to a nice win, it is refreshing to see the positivity amongst the players and the coaches in the locker room. Seems like that element of having fun has been missing for some time. I hope that "togetherness" leads to more wins like this in the coming games.

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[Hoosierfan2017 20,357]

3 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

This is the play people keep talking about as an example of Phin doing good things despite his 1-6 shooting and 0 assists. He got absolutely blown by 1x1 at the top of the arc, didn’t recover and forced Geronimo to come over and save him - causing a bad pass that landed halfway between Liddell and Phin who finally got back

For whatever reason, Phinisee gets treated with kid gloves by a portion of the fanbase, and they routinely make excuses for his poor play. He’s a horrendous offensive player, he can’t shoot a lick, yet he takes as many shots per game as Parker Stewart. That’s a problem. 

[cthomas 6,080]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

For whatever reason, Phinisee gets treated with kid gloves by a portion of the fanbase, and they routinely make excuses for his poor play. He’s a horrendous offensive player, he can’t shoot a lick, yet he takes as many shots per game as Parker Stewart. That’s a problem. 

Only if CMW thinks it's a problem.

[MikeRoberts 6,877]

10 minutes ago, cthomas said:

Only if CMW thinks it's a problem.

A problem is a problem; it’s compounded if our head coach doesn’t think it’s one

[Hoosierfan2017 20,357]

28 minutes ago, cthomas said:

Only if CMW thinks it's a problem.

The whole “Woody knows best, he doesn’t make any mistakes, it’s only a problem if he think it’s a problem” schtick I’ve seen from a lot of people is getting extremely ridiculous. Woody isn’t Bob Knight. He’s a rookie college coach who had a mediocre NBA coaching career and is a head coach for the first time in nearly a decade. He’s going to make mistakes. Rob Phinisee shoots 29% from the field. He’s taking as many shots as the sharpshooter who shoots 45% from 3. I don’t need Woody to come out and say that’s a problem. I’m more than capable of realizing that myself. If Woody doesn’t think that our worst shooter taking as many shots per game as our best shooter is a problem then that’s a problem in and of itself.

[cthomas 6,080]

16 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

The whole “Woody knows best, he doesn’t make any mistakes, it’s only a problem if he think it’s a problem” schtick I’ve seen from a lot of people is getting extremely ridiculous. Woody isn’t Bob Knight. He’s a rookie college coach who had a mediocre NBA coaching career and is a head coach for the first time in nearly a decade. He’s going to make mistakes. Rob Phinisee shoots 29% from the field. He’s taking as many shots as the sharpshooter who shoots 45% from 3. I don’t need Woody to come out and say that’s a problem. I’m more than capable of realizing that myself. If Woody doesn’t think that’s a problem then that’s a problem in and of itself.

My point is that whatever we think doesn't really matter because, right or wrong, his opinion will prevail. It's his team and he is accountable for the results. Like it or not, that's how it is.

[HoosierFan1994 4,640]

I enjoyed watching this team play hard Thursday night. I don't think Ohio State is all that (they are good, not sure if #13 good). This team has to be able to put a big win behind them.

I really liked Trayce playing like an All-American after being called out by coach. For this team to have almost any success it starts with him. I'm really looking forward to Big Ten Season. If Indiana becomes a top 20ish team, Trayce has to be in the NPOY discussion. (That being said he had half our turnovers lol. I hope he stops throwing a 99 MPH fastball as a pass.)

Galloway may be the X factor of this team. I hope this game gave him some confidence and he just takes off. 

I'm still not convinced the backcourt play of this team is good enough. I haven't been on here as much but I'm sure it has been said that if Miller or Parker aren't shooting well they can be a liability. I don't think X is a bad player but he needs to know his role. He's not the star of this team. That being said the National Champs and a Final Four team wanted him. I'm confident he will play better. 

[Stuhoo 77,863]

28 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

A problem is a problem; it’s compounded if our head coach doesn’t think it’s one

Or if collectively, Mike Woodson, Armond Hill, Yas, Dane Fife, Thad Matta, and Kenya Hunter, with ALL of their collective experience, think that Phin helps us win and are wrong.

Gawd, it feels completely ridiculous to even type that.

Sometimes the hate for Phinisee borders on the ludicrous. For me? He helps us win, especially when he’s guarding the point but playing SG on offense.

[Hoosierfan2017 20,357]

3 minutes ago, cthomas said:

My point is that whatever we think doesn't really matter because, right or wrong, his opinion will prevail. It's his team and he is accountable for the results. Like it or not, that's how it is.

Okay, but that’s not what you said. You said it’s only a problem if Woody thinks it’s a problem. That’s ridiculous. Our worst shooter taking as many shots as our best shooter, especially when our worst shooter plays 5 fewer mpg than our best shooter, is a problem. If Woody doesn’t see it as a problem and doesn’t make adjustments to fix it then that’s a problem too. 

[Stuhoo 77,863]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Okay, but that’s not what you said. You said it’s only a problem if Woody thinks it’s a problem. That’s ridiculous. Our worst shooter taking as many shots as our best shooter, especially when our worst shooter plays 5 fewer mpg than our best shooter, is a problem. If Woody doesn’t see it as a problem and doesn’t make adjustments to fix it then that’s a problem too. 

Our “best shooter” cannot create his own shot.

Matt Roth was a GREAT shooter. During the same era Derek Elston took more shots.

[MemphisHoosier 1,984]

4 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Or if collectively, Mike Woodson, Armond Hill, Yas, Dane Fife, Thad Matta, and Kenya Hunter, with ALL of their collective experience, think that Phin helps us win and are wrong.

Gawd, it feels completely ridiculous to even type that. Sometimes the hate for Phinisee borders on the ludicrous.

This.  To put it nicely, the roster is imperfect.  Overtime you trust, and more importantly - expect, the coaching staff to recruit and develop a different caliber of player than what is currently on the roster 1-13. 

When you see the future additions of JHS, Cupps, and Newton as well as the continued pursuit of Little that is a clear signal that the process is already in motion.

[IU Scott 2,375]

38 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

A problem is a problem; it’s compounded if our head coach doesn’t think it’s one

What makes you the expert and to think you know the team better than the coach is ridiculous.

[IUFAN1976 2,644]

3 minutes ago, MemphisHoosier said:

This.  To put it nicely, the roster is imperfect.  Overtime you trust, and more importantly - expect, the coaching staff to recruit and develop a different caliber of player than what is currently on the roster 1-13. 

When you see the future additions of JHS, Cupps, and Newton as well as the continued pursuit of Little that is a clear signal that the process is already in motion.

Agree with both!  I wish the Phinesee hate and Lander love will just stop!  The coaches aren’t wrong

[Hoosierfan2017 20,357]

8 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Our “best shooter” cannot create his own shot.

Matt Roth was a GREAT shooter. Elston probably took more shots

Not a comparable situation. Matt Roth played 11.8 mpg as a senior, on a loaded team, and he played fewer mpg than Derek Elston. Parker Stewart is a starter playing 25 mpg. If you’re not running plays to get him open looks, why play him at all? He’s not a good defender. He’s out there for his shooting, yet our worst shooter is taking as many shots despite playing fewer minutes. And the shots Phinisee takes don’t even have to all go to Parker Stewart. They could go to literally any other player. Phinisee has the worst field goal percentage on the team by a whopping 10%. 

[Stuhoo 77,863]

Just now, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Not a comparable situation. Matt Roth played 11.8 mpg as a senior, on a loaded team, and he played fewer mpg than Derek Elston. Parker Stewart is a starter playing 25 mpg. If you’re not running plays to get him open looks, why play him at all? He’s not a good defender. He’s out there for his shooting, yet our worst shooter is taking as many shots despite playing fewer minutes. And the shots Phinisee takes don’t even have to all go to Parker Stewart. They could go to literally any other player. Phinisee has the worst old goal percentage on the team by a whopping 10%. 

I made two points—you mixed them to form a conclusion.

Parker Stewart cannot create a shot, so he takes fewer shots per minute than Phinisee.

[MikeRoberts 6,877]

17 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Or if collectively, Mike Woodson, Armond Hill, Yas, Dane Fife, Thad Matta, and Kenya Hunter, with ALL of their collective experience, think that Phin helps us win and are wrong.

Gawd, it feels completely ridiculous to even type that.

Sometimes the hate for Phinisee borders on the ludicrous. For me? He helps us win, especially when he’s guarding the point but playing SG on offense.

What does that mean “playing SG on offense”? What value is a shooting guard that can’t shoot? Not even a little, but still chucks it like he is our go to player.

some of the love for Phin is ludicrous, and doesn’t address facts. He is likely our worst shooter on the team, including those that get zero playing time. He even gets applauded by some on lazy effort plays like I posted above. 

[IUFAN1976 2,644]

19 minutes ago, HoosierFan1994 said:

I enjoyed watching this team play hard Thursday night. I don't think Ohio State is all that (they are good, not sure if #13 good). This team has to be able to put a big win behind them.

I really liked Trayce playing like an All-American after being called out by coach. For this team to have almost any success it starts with him. I'm really looking forward to Big Ten Season. If Indiana becomes a top 20ish team, Trayce has to be in the NPOY discussion. (That being said he had half our turnovers lol. I hope he stops throwing a 99 MPH fastball as a pass.)

Galloway may be the X factor of this team. I hope this game gave him some confidence and he just takes off. 

I'm still not convinced the backcourt play of this team is good enough. I haven't been on here as much but I'm sure it has been said that if Miller or Parker aren't shooting well they can be a liability. I don't think X is a bad player but he needs to know his role. He's not the star of this team. That being said the National Champs and a Final Four team wanted him. I'm confident he will play better. 

You are right, TJD has to play like an All-American for us to win!  
Galloway doesn’t allow the ball to stick and should get more minutes over Johnson and Phinesee, yes he can play point guard!

[Stuhoo 77,863]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Not a comparable situation. Matt Roth played 11.8 mpg as a senior, on a loaded team, and he played fewer mpg than Derek Elston. Parker Stewart is a starter playing 25 mpg. If you’re not running plays to get him open looks, why play him at all? He’s not a good defender. He’s out there for his shooting, yet our worst shooter is taking as many shots despite playing fewer minutes. And the shots Phinisee takes don’t even have to all go to Parker Stewart. They could go to literally any other player. Phinisee has the worst field goal percentage on the team by a whopping 10%. 

Derek Elston also took more shots per 40 minutes than Matt Roth. Better?

[MikeRoberts 6,877]

7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

What makes you the expert and to think you know the team better than the coach is ridiculous.

I do the literal eye role when I read your posts.

the point that was made was that our worst shooter is taking as many shots as our best shooter and that is a problem. 

Are you trying to argue against that? Would love to see this argument 

[Stuhoo 77,863]

2 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

What does that mean “playing SG on offense”? 

It means playing him alongside X, or if not at least along with Galloway