Apathy

[MikeRoberts 6,998]

5 minutes ago, ap2345 said:

I'm starting to understand why the Indiana fan base has such a bad reputation. Some people are just ridiculous and ready to jump off a cliff every 5 minutes. 

I don’t see that being the case here at all. Seems pretty civil and normal. 
we’re losing games to anyone with a pulse right now - racked up a bunch of wins against the little sisters of the poor. 
it’s normal to question if we are on any track that will lead us to something good

[Stuhoo 80,495]

Just now, MikeRoberts said:

I don’t see that being the case here at all. Seems pretty civil and normal. 
we’re losing games to anyone with a pulse right now - racked up a bunch of wins against the little sisters of the poor. 
it’s normal to question if we are on any track that will lead us to something good

+1

I watched the game and then went out on a family thing yesterday. expected to come back to a moderation mess. 

Instead, saw lots and lots of posts and not one needed to be hidden. That doesn't always happen after wins, never mind losses.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,297]

I'm starting to understand why the Indiana fan base has such a bad reputation. Some people are just ridiculous and ready to jump off a cliff every 5 minutes. 

We have a ‘bad reputation’ because we were once a winning program that has lost mostly for 30 years. Social media coincides with that slide, not ideal. If we had blue blood results we’d be considered the best fanbase in the country. It’s simple. The team, program, and fans want to pin the blame on something. I guess, it might as well be the fans since most of the teams and coaches fail. But it’s not. We look for rays of light in every corner. They are just hard to find. For me, I pride myself on judging product and results. Neither are good. That’s why we have this reaction at 10-3 plus the years of baggage don’t help.


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[ap2345 7,785]

10 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

I don’t see that being the case here at all. Seems pretty civil and normal. 
we’re losing games to anyone with a pulse right now - racked up a bunch of wins against the little sisters of the poor. 
it’s normal to question if we are on any track that will lead us to something good

I didn't mean here just in general. I get that there are things to question but the reality is that things just have to play out and see how the rest of the season goes. 

[Stuhoo 80,495]

4 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

We have a ‘bad reputation’ because we were once a winning program that has lost mostly for 30 years. Social media coincides with that slide, not ideal. If we had blue blood results we’d be considered the best fanbase in the country. It’s simple. The team, program, and fans want to pin the blame on something. I guess, it might as well be the fans since most of the teams and coaches fail. But it’s not. We look for rays of light in every corner. They are just hard to find. For me, I pride myself on judging product and results. Neither are good. That’s why we have this reaction at 10-3 plus the years of baggage don’t help.


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So what you're saying is that winning cures everything?

Completely agree.

 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,670]

29 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

We have a ‘bad reputation’ because we were once a winning program that has lost mostly for 30 years. Social media coincides with that slide, not ideal. If we had blue blood results we’d be considered the best fanbase in the country. It’s simple. The team, program, and fans want to pin the blame on something. I guess, it might as well be the fans since most of the teams and coaches fail. But it’s not. We look for rays of light in every corner. They are just hard to find. For me, I pride myself on judging product and results. Neither are good. That’s why we have this reaction at 10-3 plus the years of baggage don’t help.


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How many years recently have we heard "we are still 11-2" or something of the like? We heard during Romeo's only season and we seen how it turned out. It happened last season even to start Big Ten play. And it always slides. It may just be this roster. This group of guys just don't mix well enough for on court success. But there is plenty that needs work for the players and coaches. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,304]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

This sums it up for me. I’ll never give it up. But my desire to buy tickets, travel to games, re-arrange plans to watch games is ever lessening. I catch myself Fast Forwarding segments of games. Not enjoying the style, play, results. My parallel is IUFB. I never/rarely get upset at a IUFB loss. I have next to zero expectations for that program. We’ve been a bottom dweller forever. Now, IUBB, I’ve always thought we were 1 hire away from being like Kansas, Duke, Kentucky etc. It’s taken a while, but now I realize that isn’t going to be the case. Should it be? I don’t know. I bet Kentucky doesn’t go to pot for 30 years when Calipari retires. Each hire rejuvenates some hope. NIL rejuvenates some hope. But each hire and NIL eventually reveal that it’s not what I’d hoped. Anyway, my top 5 program expectations have lessened to top 25 expectations and that’s slipping quickly. So, soon/eventually it’ll be zero expectations, and maybe that’s for the best.


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I thought about going to the game yesterday. It was the closest one for me this year, about 3 hours each way. But, the cost of tickets + travel costs + time just wasn’t worth it for a team that I figured would disappoint me. IU just isn’t worth going out of my way to watch. Easier to just flip on the channel and half heartedly watch. I think that’s where fan apathy comes in the most. I watched some of the Purdue/Nicholls State game and it was packed. We can only pack Assembly Hall for the biggest of games nowadays. 

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

PSU also hit some open 3’s but a handful were tough contested shots they had no business making.  
 

I was waiting on this post. Honestly, it took longer than I expected for this to be brought up as justification. It seems we play the “opponent hit some circus shots on us” after too many losses.

I’ll start by arguing that one of their threes was a tough contested shot. Why do teams seem to hit these shots against us? Because we allow teams to get comfortable with WIDE OPEN looks for too many attempts during a game. Thankfully, in our cupcake noncon games, teams were missing them for the most part. When you’re taking wide open shots with little pressure it makes those contested shots just a little easier.

Watch it in the next game to see how that plays out. I fell into the trap of “we would have won if they didn’t hit crazy shots!” before. We have to do a better job of pressuring shooters. Watch how many times a shooter is left wide open and a late close out has an IU defender lunging at a shooter. Recipe to lose, over and over again.


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[Dave from Dayton 3,179]

4 in my family and a friend are all going from Dayton to Columbus OH for the IU @ OSU game on 2/19.  Really would like to win that game.  However, right now...after watching the OSU OT win over Nebraska...it appears IU is not of that caliber at this time.

But there is hope.   Hope that Phin quickly gets the ball in play, scores early and often.  Xavier keeps his cool and scores early and often.  Tamar Bates has the game slow down for him and does well. That all of our shooters hit from the 3 at over 40%.  That assists and cuts go up.  That defense stays excellent throughout the whole game. That IU hits free throws down the stretch and in closing minutes of the game.  That Race is at 100%.  That IU out rebounds the other team all of the games.  And IU gets into the NCAAT with room to spare.

Never give up!  This is Indiana!

[NashvilleHoosier 3,703]

17 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I thought about going to the game yesterday. It was the closest one for me this year, about 3 hours each way. But, the cost of tickets + travel costs + time just wasn’t worth it for a team that I figured would disappoint me. IU just isn’t worth going out of my way to watch. Easier to just flip on the channel and half heartedly watch. I think that’s where fan apathy comes in the most. I watched some of the Purdue/Nicholls State game and it was packed. We can only pack Assembly Hall for the biggest of games nowadays. 

I'm only taking a stab here so I could be wrong, but my guess is this is as much of an Assembly Hall problem as it is a fans not wanting to come support the team problem. I've never been to Mackey but it appears to be significantly easier to navigate to uppermost parts of that arena. Sure, having a highly ranked team is a huge factor. But if we were ranked exactly where Purdue is, I suspect we'd still get a far less than full AH for teams like Nicholls State. The top 10 or so rows of the main level are barely worth it. The balcony is only a decent view if you're in the first few rows in the middle and even then the trek to get there is ridiculous. So the experience of actually being there is significantly diluted unless it's a marquee opponent. 

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Oh woe. Indiana lost a game on the road in the B1G.  Think I will quit watching them and cheering for ole IU!/s
Get a grip.  No one likes to lose.  But it is relatively early in Coach Woodson's effort to turn this program around.
Has IU done what it could to attract quality recruits to the program?  Yes...finally.
Has IU gotten a great coach to come to IU as head coach?  Well, he does check a load of boxes that previous hires didn't.  
Was Coach Woody successful as a player and an NBA coach.  Yes and yes.  As to the latter, he did well considering the NBA.
Is IU positioned to improve during the year?  Dunno.  The jury is out...but with his staff it looks ok.  Who is motivating the players to move without the ball?  To play defense all game?  To shoot more effectively? 
Does IU adjust well to the overutilization of TJD?  Well, the guards and forwards that IU has are not up to the talent of what is needed.
But, this is the first year of the new coaching staff being in place.  I look to recruiting to make or break IU.  And that jury will be out for a couple of years.
This isn't 'automatic'.  This isn't plug and play.  This isn't quick fix territory.  
Step back from the ledge.  Get a perspective.  
Woody may not be the second coming of RMK.  He may not have the success of a Coach K.  If one thinks that IU should have gotten a better college coach...then why didn't IU?  Could it be because: they didn't want to; they didn't fit; they weren't available?

It isn’t that IU lost a game on the road in the Big 1.o. It’s that IU is making the same mistakes, sans turnovers (improvement!!!!), we did at the beginning of the year.

There was a group that was told to hush it because it was just one or two games. When can we start talking about trends without being told we’re silly? Wins and losses will happen but the way you play the game dictates the probabilities for those outcomes. IU has been trending towards higher probabilities for losses with their effort, smarts, and execution for the first 13 games of the year.

We won in the noncon against inferior teams because we were simply more talented, not by effort, IQ, or execution. That dog won’t hunt in the Big 1.o. Something has to change and I’m not sure we have the ability to change that much in conference play.

I’d put our ceiling at .500 ball in conference if we continue playing the way we have.


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[MikeRoberts 6,998]

4 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

4 in my family and a friend are all going from Dayton to Columbus OH for the IU @ OSU game on 2/19.  Really would like to win that game.  However, right now...after watching the OSU OT win over Nebraska...it appears IU is not of that caliber at this time.

But there is hope.   Hope that Phin quickly gets the ball in play, scores early and often.  Xavier keeps his cool and scores early and often.  Tamar Bates has the game slow down for him and does well. That all of our shooters hit from the 3 at over 40%.  That assists and cuts go up.  That defense stays excellent throughout the whole game. That IU hits free throws down the stretch and in closing minutes of the game.  That Race is at 100%.  That IU out rebounds the other team all of the games.  And IU gets into the NCAAT with room to spare.

Never give up!

As long as Phinisee is playing we will never be good. He is a ball dominate guard that kills the speed and flow of the offense. He has done it for 4 years and it isn’t changing now. X needs to play every minute and then play a shooting guard like Leal as the primary ball handler.

[Uspshoosier 45,601]

28 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I thought about going to the game yesterday. It was the closest one for me this year, about 3 hours each way. But, the cost of tickets + travel costs + time just wasn’t worth it for a team that I figured would disappoint me. IU just isn’t worth going out of my way to watch. Easier to just flip on the channel and half heartedly watch. I think that’s where fan apathy comes in the most. I watched some of the Purdue/Nicholls State game and it was packed. We can only pack Assembly Hall for the biggest of games nowadays. 

Still year in and year out top 8 in attendance for all of college basketball 

[Dave from Dayton 3,179]

2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

It isn’t that IU lost a game on the road in the Big 1.o. It’s that IU is making the same mistakes, sans turnovers (improvement!!!!), we did at the beginning of the year.

There was a group that was told to hush it because it was just one or two games. When can we start talking about trends without being told we’re silly? Wins and losses will happen but the way you play the game dictates the probabilities for those outcomes. IU has been trending towards higher probabilities for losses with their effort, smarts, and execution for the first 13 games of the year.

We won in the noncon against inferior teams because we were simply more talented, not by effort, IQ, or execution. That dog won’t hunt in the Big 1.o. Something has to change and I’m not sure we have the ability to change that much in conference play.

I’d put our ceiling at .500 ball in conference if we continue playing the way we have.


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Some of what you say is spot on.  But the transfers are predominately B-Team caliber from other teams.  Our guards are not significantly better than last year.  Shooters are getting better...against lessors.  Xavier got into foul trouble...again.  Race seemed to vanish.  TJD got teamed.  Shooters went flat.  Defense was bad.

Was it effort that was lacking?  Coaching?  Experience?  

I didn't understand the lack of defense.  I also didn't understand why there was no movement off of the ball.  When Bates came in he made mistakes but also flashed.  Then was replaced.  The B-Team was put in when X got 2 fouls and IU didn't do squat after that.  Is that Woody pulling the plug on the game?  Sending a message?  Roster management?  Who is IU's go-to guy?

Is this a trend?  Or is it a series of fatal flaws?   

Or can it be rectified...

The answer, in my opinion, has not been written.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

18 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Still year in and year out top 8 in attendance for all of college basketball 

I think we can all agree that attendance != butts in seats.

[Uspshoosier 45,601]

6 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I think we can all agree that attendance != butts in seats.

Still more packed in those buy games at home then probably 90% of college basketball 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,304]

27 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Still year in and year out top 8 in attendance for all of college basketball 

Aren’t those numbers just based on ticket sales? IU doesn’t struggle to sell tickets, so the university is happy because they’re getting their money. But selling all your tickets doesn’t help the team if people don’t actually show up for the games. Assembly Hall is not even close to full for most games. 

[Uspshoosier 45,601]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Aren’t those numbers just based on ticket sales? IU doesn’t struggle to sell tickets, so the university is happy because they’re getting their money. But selling all your tickets doesn’t help the team if people don’t actually show up for the games. Assembly Hall is not even close to full for most games. 

Their attendance in these buy games is still 90% more packed then the rest of college basketball.    Watch a home Maryland buy game and see how that compares with IU’s attendance 

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

9 minutes ago, Dave from Dayton said:

Some of what you say is spot on.  But the transfers are predominately B-Team caliber from other teams.  Our guards are not significantly better than last year.  Shooters are getting better...against lessors.  Xavier got into foul trouble...again.  Race seemed to vanish.  TJD got teamed.  Shooters went flat.  Defense was bad.

Was it effort that was lacking?  Coaching?  Experience?  

I didn't understand the lack of defense.  I also didn't understand why there was no movement off of the ball.  When Bates came in he made mistakes but also flashed.  Then was replaced.  The B-Team was put in when X got 2 fouls and IU didn't do squat after that.  Is that Woody pulling the plug on the game?  Sending a message?  Roster management?  Who is IU's go-to guy?

Is this a trend?  Or is it a series of fatal flaws?   

Or can it be rectified...

The answer, in my opinion, has not been written.

The crazy thing about those transfers is they are mostly starting over our predominately C-Team caliber returners. Woody was the one that talked them into returning no?

We (coaches/players) don't put our players in position to succeed. Those B-Team caliber transfers have skills that can help a team win. Why not use those skills? Instead, a decent team forces them to do things they're not skilled at and we fold. Maybe PSU is just a better team than us? They were able to stay with Kopp and Stewart for most of the game. They forced them to put the ball on the floor and that's a turnover waiting to happen. They forced both of them into attempting to defend and got clean looks from it. Why? How? Can we talk about effort and/or smart effort now? Why are Kopp and Stewart over helping, time after time after time, that they can't get back to their man. (It's been happening since the first few games of the season) PSU was similar to several of our noncon opponents: they're only going to beat us if they significantly outpace us from deep. We gave up way too many clean looks and they beat us. Oh, they also were able to outrebound us too. How?!

Against any team with a pulse, we've struggled with SIMPLE ball screens. PSU ran numerous ball screens and it looked like a completely foreign concept to us. What was the message IU social media blasted before the game? Communicate? We looked like fools trying to guard a lazy side ball screen that resulted in TWO IU players following the ball and leaving a shooter wide open in the corner. I guess the crowd noise from those 10 PSU fans really caused us trouble to communicate. I can't imagine what it'll be like when we go into Wackey or up to East Lansing. Maybe those players were tuning the coach out because they thought it was Archie still coaching? If only, neither played a second of game time under him.

X is the player that he is and it hasn't changed. When he gets his first foul that he disagrees with he's most likely picking up his second foul a few minutes later. Why hasn't that been addressed? Yank him immediately after his first foul to give him a talk. Love the energy and passion though.

TJD can either be on and going or off and going through the motions. We see this, why isn't the coaching staff running some stuff early in the game to get him going. Why hasn't this been addressed?

Stewart is a weapon from deep. Why are we not running sets to get him open looks? The ball goes into the post, the other players stand around with maybe a Race lazy frolicking trip through the lane to clog things up. Why?! How many games do we need to see to show that this isn't winning basketball?! We have some pieces that can win games but we're doing exactly what defenses want us to do.

[IUFootballHappyHappyJoyJoy 741]

When you lose to a program that had a fanbase not bother celebrate its NIT victory a few years back and historically has been dwarfed by the football program (ironically the inverse problem we have), it's never a good sign.

It's even worse when you lose thanks to poor shooting and player management, and especially after Penn State was off for weeks.

This isn't time to panic, because what's the point, but... it sure feels like it's gonna be another one of those years where we struggle to an 8-10 year in conference play and have our usual embarrassment in the tournament.