Game Thread: @Maryland 10/30 - Noon - BTN

[Brass Cannon 24,838]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Call it whatever you want. They’re objective facts. We’re in last place in the Big 10. We’re the only team that hasn’t won a conference game. We returned 19 starters from a 6-2 team and now we’re sitting at 2-6. Our last two recruiting classes were both 12th in the conference. Allen’s 8-5 record in 2019 came by beating teams with a combined 25-71 record. His 6-2 record in 2020 came during a fluke year without fans. Now, things are back to normal and IU football is back at the bottom of the conference. 

So if that’s the normal why fire him after one bad year?  

[Hoosierfan2017 21,502]

33 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

So if that’s the normal why fire him after one bad year?  

It’s not just one bad year. It’s his fifth season here. He took over a team that went to back to back bowl games for the first time in years and only fired its coach for off the field reasons. 

Year 1 - missed a bowl

Year 2 - missed a bowl 

Year 3 - made a bowl

Year 4 - made a bowl 

Year 5 - almost certainly missed a bowl 

Year 6 - tbd

He’s 15-24 in the conference right now. I said he’d deserve to be fired if next year is a repeat of this year. That would be four of six years where he misses a bowl, and the team would be trending in the wrong direction. Do you disagree with firing him at that point?  

[IUc2016 7,121]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

So if that’s the normal why fire him after one bad year?  

Because this guy called for his head in 2019 and won’t stop until he’s fired. He could have 5 great years and then a year like this and he would want him gone. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,502]

29 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

Because this guy called for his head in 2019 and won’t stop until he’s fired. He could have 5 great years and then a year like this and he would want him gone. 

Why are you still butt hurt about a thread I made two years ago? Allen has us dead last in the conference. He got us shutout for the first time in over two decades. Allen could have five seasons like this one and his fans would still be chanting LEO and talking about the grand covid year. He’s had five seasons and three of them have been bad. 

[Alford Bailey 12,387]

3 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

It’s not just one bad year. It’s his fifth season here. He took over a team that went to back to back bowl games for the first time in years and only fired its coach for off the field reasons. 

Year 1 - missed a bowl

Year 2 - missed a bowl 

Year 3 - made a bowl

Year 4 - made a bowl 

Year 5 - almost certainly missed a bowl 

Year 6 - tbd

He’s 15-24 in the conference right now. I said he’d deserve to be fired if next year is a repeat of this year. That would be four of six years where he misses a bowl, and the team would be trending in the wrong direction. Do you disagree with firing him at that point?  

Right on target per usual. I would only add looked dazed and confused in those bowl games.

[Hoosierfan2017 21,502]

15 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

Right on target per usual. I would only add looked dazed and confused in those bowl games.

And I have no problem admitting that the “Fire Tom Allen” thread was premature. I made it out of frustration in 2019 after a close loss to Michigan State. It was yet another game we lost because our staff went ultra conservative in the second half, playing not to lose instead of playing to win. We were coming off back to back 5-7 seasons. Allen was 4-16 in the conference after that loss. Things weren’t looking good at all. But then we went 5-3 over our next 8 games and followed it up with a 6-2 season. 

I got over it pretty quick and was happy that IU was winning. This year, though, we’re looking even worse than we did in Allen’s first two seasons. That’s obviously not what you want to see in a coach’s fifth season after returning the vast majority of his starters from a successful team. Which Allen is the real one, the one from the previous two seasons or the one from the other three? That’s what I want to find out next year. 

[Magisterium 388]

13 hours ago, Alford Bailey said:

He is here 2 more years regardless 

IIRC the buyout doesn't drop from 100% to 50% until year 5 of his new contract, so I'd expect Allen to probably be here through at least 2024 regardless of his won-loss record

most assistant coaches (unless they're "stars" in their own right like Venables etc) are only on one-year contracts, so I assume some of Allen's staff are not nearly as secure in their positions as Allen himself is

[Whoozhers 3,694]

Oh good lord 

He is the most uninspiring and confusing/flailing Coach ever to roam the sidelines.

I just don’t get the attraction to this guy. Never did.

 

 

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[GnarlyTimGarl 1,433]

RE: Allen's Coaching Acumen

This year has been a disaster. We had a lot of momentum from two of our best years in program history and started the season ranked 17th in the nation. Fan enthusiasm was as high as it has been in a LONG time and the poor performance this year has washed so much of it away and it's very sad to see. It's clear the team was not prepared for the adversity they would face this year and the coaches bear plenty of responsibility in that. You can tell the staff is searching for answers which is never good to see. Significant changes need to be made around the program because the approach this year was massively unsuccessful.

However, Tom Allen was the leader who built up all of that momentum and excitement that had our hopes high at the start of the season. He had our program in our biggest bowl games since the early 90's. He's had more success overall in the Big Ten than his FIVE predecessors. In my book, he deserves credit for that and can withstand a stinker of a season or two. He's worked up enough credit for that. IU Football is a very difficult job. Years of history has proven we'll always have an uphill battle against programs like Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State. That's not being defeatist, it's understanding the challenges IU faces. More often than not, those teams are going to be really good. And when some teams win, some teams have to lose.

Twenty-five years ago this university fired Bill Mallory because we felt he ran his course and there weren't in any good days remaining in his future at IU. So be it... but we needed to make sure we would replace him with a winner. We followed him with Cam Cameron, Gerry Dinardo, Terry Hoeppner, Bill Lynch and Kevin Wilson. Those are the types of coaches IU Football attracts. NOT ONE of those coaches had any success that matched what Bill Mallory accomplished or what Tom Allen would accomplish. Wanting to part ways with Allen so quickly after having the successes we've recently experienced would be a huge gamble. We'd be praying for a shot-in-the-dark candidate to be the next shiny thing at IU. And he'd be cast aside by many if he didn't start making waves in the Big Ten by Year 2.

Has Allen run out of gas at IU? Maybe. I'll admit I'm not sure we win another game this year. I thought that after the WKU game. We're that bad right now. There's no doubt that our sharp decline in play is very alarming. Allen may very well have three straight 3-win seasons and fizzle out. But Allen has shown that he can win at IU. How many other coaches (that IU could reasonably attract) can say the same? Allen has done it before. It's possible he can do it again. Do I expect it? Not necessarily. But I think he stands as good of a chance vs. most of the other coaches we would attract.

If we have another couple of 3-9, 2-10 stinker of seasons then I'll agree that he has done all he can at IU. But right now? Too early to tell. I feel Allen deserves an opportunity to right the ship.

[Alford Bailey 12,387]

55 minutes ago, GnarlyTimGarl said:

RE: Allen's Coaching Acumen

This year has been a disaster. We had a lot of momentum from two of our best years in program history and started the season ranked 17th in the nation. Fan enthusiasm was as high as it has been in a LONG time and the poor performance this year has washed so much of it away and it's very sad to see. It's clear the team was not prepared for the adversity they would face this year and the coaches bear plenty of responsibility in that. You can tell the staff is searching for answers which is never good to see. Significant changes need to be made around the program because the approach this year was massively unsuccessful.

However, Tom Allen was the leader who built up all of that momentum and excitement that had our hopes high at the start of the season. He had our program in our biggest bowl games since the early 90's. He's had more success overall in the Big Ten than his FIVE predecessors. In my book, he deserves credit for that and can withstand a stinker of a season or two. He's worked up enough credit for that. IU Football is a very difficult job. Years of history has proven we'll always have an uphill battle against programs like Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State. That's not being defeatist, it's understanding the challenges IU faces. More often than not, those teams are going to be really good. And when some teams win, some teams have to lose.

Twenty-five years ago this university fired Bill Mallory because we felt he ran his course and there weren't in any good days remaining in his future at IU. So be it... but we needed to make sure we would replace him with a winner. We followed him with Cam Cameron, Gerry Dinardo, Terry Hoeppner, Bill Lynch and Kevin Wilson. Those are the types of coaches IU Football attracts. NOT ONE of those coaches had any success that matched what Bill Mallory accomplished or what Tom Allen would accomplish. Wanting to part ways with Allen so quickly after having the successes we've recently experienced would be a huge gamble. We'd be praying for a shot-in-the-dark candidate to be the next shiny thing at IU. And he'd be cast aside by many if he didn't start making waves in the Big Ten by Year 2.

Has Allen run out of gas at IU? Maybe. I'll admit I'm not sure we win another game this year. I thought that after the WKU game. We're that bad right now. There's no doubt that our sharp decline in play is very alarming. Allen may very well have three straight 3-win seasons and fizzle out. But Allen has shown that he can win at IU. How many other coaches (that IU could reasonably attract) can say the same? Allen has done it before. It's possible he can do it again. Do I expect it? Not necessarily. But I think he stands as good of a chance vs. most of the other coaches we would attract.

If we have another couple of 3-9, 2-10 stinker of seasons then I'll agree that he has done all he can at IU. But right now? Too early to tell. I feel Allen deserves an opportunity to right the ship.

Allen fits right in with the list after Mallory but he got lucky a couple years. The next guy needs to be a HEAD COACH with experience to run the program.

[Stuhoo 81,059]

8 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

Allen fits right in with the list after Mallory but he got lucky a couple years. The next guy needs to be a HEAD COACH with experience to run the program.

 

There are very few "lucky" wins in big boy football, and very few unlucky losses.

When the game is done, coaches and players create their "luck" through staff hires, recruiting, scheme, motivation, and execution. To say that wins over PSU, UM, MSU, and Wisky last year were luck is a disservice to CTA and last year's players and staff. They did so many things well.

 

[Alford Bailey 12,387]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

There are very few "lucky" wins in big boy football, and very few lucky losses.

When the game is done, coaches and players create their "luck" through staff hires, recruiting, scheme, and execution. To say that wins over PSU, UM, MSU, and Wisky last year were luck is a disservice to CTA and last year's players and staff doing so many things well.

 

* covid year

[Stuhoo 81,059]

5 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

* covid year

COVID year during which we played eight games, players practiced, and full games were played with the usual rule book and games were 60 minutes of players crashing into each and leaving it all on the field.

Not seeing a luck element in that. 

[IU Scott 2,375]

23 minutes ago, Alford Bailey said:

* covid year

Every team played through the Vivid year so was every team that won lucky

[Alford Bailey 12,387]

Are we really gonna argue last year wasnt a total fluke based on the circumstances are the C word lol! We returned damned near the whole team and we sit in last place in the conference.

[Lebowski 2,744]

2 hours ago, Alford Bailey said:

Are we really gonna argue last year wasnt a total fluke based on the circumstances are the C word lol! We returned damned near the whole team and we sit in last place in the conference.

I mean one can argue this year is a total fluke.  I'm not arguing that but it's plausible.  

The circumstances last year certainly provided an element of last year's success.  But I don't think it was a total fluke.  Keep in mind Penix wasn't coming off an ACL injury last year, the running game was much better (see player personnel difference here), a completely different DC calling the games, injuries weren't as bad as they are this year, strength of schedule difference, not a full season and so on.  And some have already pointed out that the teams IU lined up against were playing in an empty stadium as well.  It's not like they played games against the wind.  I'm not making excuses here, I'm just pointing out the circumstances. 

Every year has a set of circumstances and this year is no different.  I think the biggest issue IUFB has is lack of depth (see injuries). The second biggest issue is no production on offense (see player personnel difference).  I will be surprised if CTA doesn't make some coaching changes on the that side of the ball during the off season. 

CTA's record against unranked teams is 18-3 (He had a 13 game win streak prior to this past Saturday). Kevin Wilson was 24-30 against unranked teams (5 of 6 seasons one win was against an FCS school).  This tells me things are going in the right direction. We're talking about IUFB here. 

[coonhounds 9,022]

Coach tom Allen reminds me so much of tom crean its ridiculous. I am not just referring to the sideline antics. Just when you think they got the program off and running. bam. Major let down. Hopefully unlike crean he can get back on track next season and string a couple good years together

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[IUc2016 7,121]

8 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

Coach tom Allen reminds me so much of tom crean its ridiculous. I am not just referring to the sideline antics. Just when you think they got the program off and running. bam. Major let down. Hopefully unlike crean he can get back on track next season and string a couple good years together

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Well If Tom Allen has anywhere near the level of success that Tom crean had we should build him a statue 

[coonhounds 9,022]

Well If Tom Allen has anywhere near the level of success that Tom crean had we should build him a statue 

Last year I would say was tom crean level. We arguably were close to winning conference where crean won a couple big 10s. Basketball success is in post season had we won that bowl last year that to me would be more success than crean ever had in Basketball. My opinion

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[IUc2016 7,121]

5 minutes ago, coonhounds said:

Last year I would say was tom crean level. We arguably were close to winning conference where crean won a couple big 10s. Basketball success is in post season had we won that bowl last year that to me would be more success than crean ever had in Basketball. My opinion

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I agree. Just saying, Tom crean level results for the football team would keep him here forever.