Mike Woodson to be next IUBB coach. Thad Matta to be associate AD

[jughaid]

1 hour ago, mdiu28 said:

I'm hopeful this works out but too am cautious and setting initial expectations lower than I'd like. 

Expectations.   That's going to be a plus in this hire.  Expectations for the first year or two will certainly be lower than if some others had taken the position.  There may be an advantage to this.   

[IUc2016]

Just now, Trish said:

That is the NBA, they have the best players in the entire world. 

Woody needs to prove himself with worse players in comparison at the D1 level. 

 

well no ****. But if you are going to argue he can't run a modern offense at least look at ALL of the facts. 

[IUBBx5Banners]

Just now, IUc2016 said:

They also led the league in 3's made and taken. Were 4th in %. Do Player's still take 3's today? 

Not just that. They were also one of, if not the first to embrace  self-created 3 pt shooting. Despite the highest 3PT attempt rate, they weren’t heavily reliant on assists.

This was still relatively ahead of the curve as most 3pt heavy teams still produced the majority of their shots via system. I think it shows a flexibility & willingness to adapt.

And their 3pt strategy was definitely intentional. They ranked bottom 5ish in long 2 pt attempts per game...for anybody that isn’t a die hard nba fan, just know that getting Prime Melo to drastically reduce his midrange diet is a massive accomplishment in itself 

[Trish]

5 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

well no ****. But if you are going to argue he can't run a modern offense at least look at ALL of the facts. 

Modern offense? That's a statement. The Knicks were 26/30 in Pace that year. 11th in Points Per Game.

We don't know what offense he's going to run. He hasn't been a head coach since 2014. He's been turned down from multiple head coaching jobs in the past three years. He's bee the defensive coach with the Clippers and Knicks for the most part. 

Let's not assume he's bringing in the Warriors NBA flow offense. 

[IUBBx5Banners]

4 minutes ago, Trish said:

That is the NBA, they have the best players in the entire world. 

Woody needs to prove himself with worse players in comparison at the D1 level. 

 

But you were questioning his offensive credentials. In 2013, they shot 45% more 3s on average than the league. In today’s modern nba, that same difference between #1 and league average is down to 20%. Today’s game is far more uniform in style than in 2013. 

So if anything, this shows that he was ahead of the offensive curve...especially when you look at their long 2 attempt rates..

[IUCrazy2]

29 minutes ago, Hooserfan1901 said:

Assistant Coach filled, welcome back Hunter!

 

Really good move IMO.

[IUc2016]

3 minutes ago, Trish said:

Modern offense? That's a statement. The Knicks were 26/30 in Pace that year. 11th in Points Per Game.

We don't know what offense he's going to run. He hasn't been a head coach since 2014. He's been turned down from multiple head coaching jobs in the past three years. He's bee the defensive coach with the Clippers and Knicks for the most part. 

Let's not assume he's bringing in the Warriors NBA flow offense. 

Nobody has assumed anything but YOU...

I don't know if he will work out or not but I am willing to give him a chance. Of course I have my doubts but I also have some reasons I am excited.

You on the other hand have already made your decision. So who is assuming? 

[IUBBx5Banners]

4 minutes ago, Trish said:

Modern offense? That's a statement. The Knicks were 26/30 in Pace that year. 11th in Points Per Game.

We don't know what offense he's going to run. He hasn't been a head coach since 2014. He's been turned down from multiple head coaching jobs in the past three years. He's bee the defensive coach with the Clippers and Knicks for the most part. 

Let's not assume he's bringing in the Warriors NBA flow offense. 

You ever think that maybe the reason they played so slow is because they were the oldest team in the nba?

[Trish]

2 minutes ago, IUBBx5Banners said:

But you were questioning his offensive credentials. In 2013, they shot 45% more 3s on average than the league. In today’s modern nba, that same difference between #1 and league average is down to 20%. Today’s game is far more uniform in style than in 2013. 

So if anything, this shows that he was ahead of the offensive curve...especially when you look at their long 2 attempt rates..

That's encouraging to hear, however I still have my doubts. If he was so offensive minded then he sure hasn't been given the chance after being the defensive coordinator with the Clippers and Knicks. In addition to him not being selected to coach the Lakers or Knicks, or Suns. 

[kreigh8]

Without scrolling through 111 pages, can some give me an idea of the negative comments that Dakich had on the Matta portion of this hire? I saw it mentioned, but don't think I ever saw the exact statements

[Hoosierfan2017]

14 minutes ago, Trish said:

That is the NBA, they have the best players in the entire world. 

Woody needs to prove himself with worse players in comparison at the D1 level. 

 

That’s a different concern altogether. You’ve been concerned that his coaching style can’t translate to the modern game because basketball has changed quite a bit since he was last a head coach in the NBA. But then when you’re given evidence that he was ahead of the curve with shooting the 3 ball with the Knicks, you shift the goal posts. Now it’s, well sure his teams played modern basketball back in the day, but he’ll have to do it with worse players at IU. Of course he will. But you were concerned with his coaching philosophy being stuck in the old days. His Knicks teams shot more threes than anyone else in the NBA. They shot 2,371 threes compared to a league average of 1,636. 
 

The league average in 2019 was almost a thousand more than it was in 2013 - it was 2,625. Yet with teams shooting, on average, a thousand more threes per year, the 891 threes the Knicks made in 2013 was more than 12 teams made in 2019. The Knicks also had the third highest offensive rating in the league in 2013. There shouldn’t be any concerns about his offensive style, imo. The only concern is whether he can get good enough players. 

[Trish]

3 minutes ago, IUBBx5Banners said:

You ever think that maybe the reason they played so slow is because they were the oldest team in the nba?

Jason Kidd was the only player to play more than 1,000 minutes who was older on that team. 

The outliers who hardly played caused them to have a very old team, on paper. 

[pumpfake]

Just now, kreigh8 said:

Without scrolling through 111 pages, can some give me an idea of the negative comments that Dakich had on the Matta portion of this hire? I saw it mentioned, but don't think I ever saw the exact statements

Everytime someone asked him or brought it up he just flippantly said "I don't care" and down played it almost mockingly.  Same attitude and comments about Leal's tweet and his mom's.  Just typical Dakitch behavior, unfortunately.

[kreigh8]

Just now, pumpfake said:

Everytime someone asked him or brought it up he just flippantly said "I don't care" and down played it almost mockingly.  Same attitude and comments about Leal's tweet and his mom's.  Just typical Dakitch behavior, unfortunately.

Thank you.

I went hunting for it last night through Google search and saw his Facebook page had a comment that he said Matta is not part of MW's staff but Dolson's staff so he'd have little impact on recruiting and play. I don't think that that is too out of line, so was trying to figure where the outrage here was coming from. I'm no DD fan, but that FB comment wasn't too outrageous to me.

[Trish]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

That’s a different concern altogether. You’ve been concerned that his coaching style can’t translate to the modern game because basketball has changed quite a bit since he was last a head coach in the NBA. But then when you’re given evidence that he was ahead of the curve with shooting the 3 ball with the Knicks, you shift the goal posts. Now it’s, well sure his teams played modern basketball back in the day, but he’ll have to do it with worse players at IU. Of course he will. But you were concerned with his coaching philosophy being stuck in the old days. His Knicks teams shot more threes than anyone else in the NBA. They shot 2,371 threes compared to a league average of 1,636. 
 

The league average in 2019 was almost a thousand more than it was in 2013 - it was 2,625. Yet with teams shooting, on average, a thousand more threes per year, the 891 threes the Knicks made in 2013 was more than 12 teams made in 2019. The Knicks also had the third highest offensive rating in the league in 2013. There shouldn’t be any concerns about his offensive style, imo. The only concern is whether he can get good enough players. 

It's just hard for me to get excited about something that happened in 2012-2013. I'd feel much more confident if he was a head coach recently. The time away from basketball from 2018-2020 concerns me as well. 

[pumpfake]

1 minute ago, kreigh8 said:

Thank you.

I went hunting for it last night through Google search and saw his Facebook page had a comment that he said Matta is not part of MW's staff but Dolson's staff so he'd have little impact on recruiting and play. I don't think that that is too out of line, so was trying to figure where the outrage here was coming from. I'm no DD fan, but that FB comment wasn't too outrageous to me.

You might be able to find his show(audio) from Monday on the 107.5 "The Fan" website.  His interview with Coach Woodson was in the first 20 minutes or so.

[IUBBx5Banners]

3 minutes ago, Trish said:

Jason Kidd was the only player to play more than 1,000 minutes who was older on that team. 

The outliers who hardly played caused them to have a very old team, on paper. 

Kenyon Amare Tyson JKidd all averaged more than 20mpg. Even 35 year old Pablo played more than 1500 mins.

And they played decent minutes at various points to Camby, Sheed & Kurt Thomas, all 38 years or older. Even their weighted age per minute is top 2 oldest. 

Let’s not ignore amare coming back from microfracture surgery after Dantoni ran him into the ground.. So what’s the coaching case for playing fast cause I sure don’t see it. 

 

[IUCrazy2]

1 minute ago, Hardwood83 said:

In short I can't get excited about this because I think IU hired the wrong guy. I wouldn't say "it can't work" because it can.  I still have to agree with Wayne though, I don't see it working. 

Has nothing to do with optimism either since I really, REALLY want it to work too. Still this hire seems like a mess. We hired an old NBA hand just because he played at IU and wanted the job more than anyone else. That is nice, but not exactly prime qualifications. 

We then pulled in an (apparently) broken-down Matta to help fix all the blind spots that some pretend Woodson doesn't even have in the first place. Winning in the NCAA/B1G isn't easy obviously and MW has several hurdles. No doubt he has passion for IU, that will help buy him some time. He also obviously knows basketball. So have the last several IU coaches, including Bobby. Btw, Knight was younger when he was fired than Woodson is now (60 v 63). 

Can Woodson recruit? can he build a cohesive staff? Will he work well with Matta? Will the off the court demands get old? Will he have the energy to maintain this for 5+yrs? Will his NBA experience translate to the B1G?  Lot's of questions. There have been many reasonable arguments to answer each of these questions on this very site. But we don't know. There are plenty of other guys that we do know the answers, because they have already done it. I think this is the primary reason that Woodson wasn't on many people's top 10 list. He's an unknown that might work....now many on here state "I was hesitant, but he's enthusiastic so now I am too!" Ok, good. But that isn't what it takes to win.  My enthusiasm or your excitement means squat toward beating Purdue, Wisconsin and Northwestern.  We need a capable coach that can pull it all together in a short amount of time. I don't believe Mike Woodson is that guy. 

I appreciate the nostalgia, familiarity and comfort of having one of our own running the show. I don't believe that outweighs having the right coach though. To me the best guy is a proven winner (particularly in college) and is young enough to build and maintain that. Woodson is none of those things. So that is why I am not confident in his success. My hopes were dashed with Woodson's hiring, so I'll deal with it and hope for the best. Still, I have very low expectations and think we'll be in this painful position as a program again in 3-5yrs. I will relish being proven wrong and am not an "I told you so" @sshole, so won't appreciate it if I am right. 

 

Outside of a very select few coaches who were not going to come here, those same questions would exist for any hire (other than maybe the age).

Musselman and Oats are newer and have one decent run in the tournament each.  Drew would have recruiting questions at Indiana because the AAU coaches here are not a fan.  "But he could get national guys here...he recruits Baylor."  Maybe.  We don't know that.

I think this fanbase (me included) gets too wrapped up in the next shiny object.  We panned Greg Gard.  We panned Holtmann.  We panned Howard.  We panned Painter.  We said that Underwood was a bad hire.  All those guys have been kicking our butts with our "proven Final Four and Elite 8" coaches.

There will always be questions, I hope that we can sit back and let this guy actually do some of the job before we bury him under pessimism before he has even coached his first game.  Let the guy have a ******* honeymoon.

[GloryDays]

24 minutes ago, Trish said:

That is the NBA, they have the best players in the entire world. 

Woody needs to prove himself with worse players in comparison at the D1 level. 

 

The point was under Woodson they led the league.

Every coach in the NBA had the best players in the world.  That statement really doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

[IUBBx5Banners]

9 minutes ago, Trish said:

It's just hard for me to get excited about something that happened in 2012-2013. I'd feel much more confident if he was a head coach recently. The time away from basketball from 2018-2020 concerns me as well. 

Well...Archie was essentially away from basketball from 2018-2020 but you’re his biggest supporter.