General Coach Candidate News

[Hoosierfan2017 24,888]

5 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Well, now i do not think anyone is planning a parade yet.  From where we were under Archie, yes it was a success and that best player got significantly better after Woody came.  I certainly have doubts on whether he is the guy but time has to play out some more.

Why do we have to wait for time to play out? Woodson turns 66 next month. It’s not like we’re talking about waiting to see if a guy who could be our coach for the 20+ years figures things out. Even in the best outcome, Woodson only has a few years left here. You don’t want your “bridge guy” to end up burning the bridge down. 

[TTT 1,348]

Josh Schertz / Indiana State “coaches can’t win any games, we can only lose them.”

IU’s next coach does not need to be somebody famous nor does it need someone who has already accomplished on big time level.  They will gladly take the money just as Woodson and his court are doing now.  Sure they will want to win and try some but if things don’t work out…well, that was a nice little gig for that time in my life.

IU men’s basketball needs a coach with a burning desire deep down in his heart that knows what he is doing creating that you know it’s IU basketball winning image and it hardly ever loses.

[8bucks 7,552]

2 minutes ago, TTT said:

Josh Schertz / Indiana State “coaches can’t win any games, we can only lose them.”

IU’s next coach does not need to be somebody famous nor does it need someone who has already accomplished on big time level.  They will gladly take the money just as Woodson and his court are doing now.  Sure they will want to win and try some but if things don’t work out…well, that was a nice little gig for that time in my life.

IU men’s basketball needs a coach with a burning desire deep down in his heart that knows what he is doing creating that you know it’s IU basketball winning image and it hardly ever loses.

Finding that gem among the unprovens is not very easy.  And I am sure the admin hiring committee asks what the coaches vision is for building this and come away convinced they have that deep down passion.  Sampson said he would "walk on glass" for the job, Crean came in with a huge presentation, binders and sold them that he had that because "it's Indiana".  I am sure Woody sold them on playing for RMK, coaching in the NBA, had Carmello tell them how great he was with players and had a vision too.

Getting a guy that can cast a vision and then put it into place without demonstrated success at the big time level is a hope filled strategy.  It could work or they might just be a great "used car salesmen" who is great at telling a story.

[TTT 1,348]

8 minutes ago, 8bucks said:

Finding that gem among the unprovens is not very easy.  And I am sure the admin hiring committee asks what the coaches vision is for building this and come away convinced they have that deep down passion.  Sampson said he would "walk on glass" for the job, Crean came in with a huge presentation, binders and sold them that he had that because "it's Indiana".  I am sure Woody sold them on playing for RMK, coaching in the NBA, had Carmello tell them how great he was with players and had a vision too.

Getting a guy that can cast a vision and then put it into place without demonstrated success at the big time level is a hope filled strategy.  It could work or they might just be a great "used car salesmen" who is great at telling a story.

Woodson probably didn’t really have to sell himself that much.  But his work in NBA whether one would conclude good or bad or average which I would conclude as average is not equating to any kind of solid success (performance) at the college level.  That goes for the entirety of what an elite college basketball program Image should be.  Currently, the entirety of IU men’s basketball program is struggling to be average.

[Hornsby 3,870]

The fact that getting blown out in the round of 64 and then in the round of 32 with one of the best players in college basketball is considered success for IU basketball shows how down bad the program is. Archie being so god awful makes anything above incompetence look good.  If IU accepts that it’s a middle of the pack program then sure, no reason to fire Woodson. If IU wants to be a top-tier program, though? Well, that’s another story. 

I think it's becoming clear those results are just fine given the raise and happiness of many fans with woodson We probably will just have to accept this is what iu is going to be going forward.. Might get lucky once in a great moon and make a sweet sixteen possibly.   In hindsight crean should never have been fired given we aren't that serious of a program. He could make the occasional sweet sixeteen at least.

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[str8baller 7,499]

3 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

Each case is different and there are more reasons than wins and losses as to why coaches get fired.   Howland getting fired from ucla had more to do with the fact he ticked off AAU and high school coaches in the California.  They thought his offense stunk and him pulling a scholly from a local kid really pissed them off.    He was forced to recruit outside the state or lower level in state kids.    

I agree with this and what a couple others posted about circumstances being unique in each case. I just don’t think there’s anyone to pull up comparables and say IU has ever acted too quickly.  
 

Davis and Crean both annoyed the local recruiting base, but IU stuck with them long past when most reasonable people know they weren’t the next big coach.  
 

Doherty probably got the worst deal with a depleted roster causing his bad year and then  him having brought in the recruiting class that would be Roy’s first title team. Yet through back channels they knew Roy had changed his mind and would accept their offer to come back. So they axed him after 3 years, even when notable alumni like Jordan expressed some support for Doherty.  But…3 National Titles later nobody cries for Matt Doherty. He’s probably lucky if his invitation to alumni events doesn’t get lost in the mail. 
 

It’s a cut throat business. IU’s aww shucks Mr. Magoo approach doesn’t stand a chance absent some stroke of blind luck. 
 

To wit: Today, the B1G and SEC just announced that in essence they are asserting control over major college sports. The NCAA and other conferences be damned. Beyond coaching searches, it would be cool if IU were a leading voice in this new landscape instead of just tagging along, happy to be here. But honestly, I’d settle for a successful basketball coaching search. 

[str8baller 7,499]

3 hours ago, 8bucks said:

Gillespie also, reportedly, had some DUI issues to go along with a bad season in 2008.  

 

3 hours ago, go iu bb said:

IIRC with Howland, there was also some internal drama.

You guys are right, but I’d just like to point out two things.  
 

1) lots of coaches have these issues. If you win the fans never hear about them or dismiss them as irrelevant, and

2) it’s really easy for an Athletic Dept to push these media narratives, or even feed the stories to friendly outlets, once they make a firing.   
 

IU probably never expected some dope like Goodman to stick up for Archie, but we were still caught flatfooted with that media narrative. They should’ve had Rabjohns and a couple of others loaded with stories about how Archie was a malcontent, didn’t connect with alumni, couldn’t recruit, etc…  Instead we get painted as unrealistic lunatics of a fallen program that doesn’t deserve better than Archie. The little media battles matter for perception’s sake, especially if you don’t have a new coach signed up yet. 
 

 

[Hornsby 3,870]

I agree with this and what a couple others posted about circumstances being unique in each case. I just don’t think there’s anyone to pull up comparables and say IU has ever acted too quickly.  
 
Davis and Crean both annoyed the local recruiting base, but IU stuck with them long past when most reasonable people know they weren’t the next big coach.  
 
Doherty probably got the worst deal with a depleted roster causing his bad year and then  him having brought in the recruiting class that would be Roy’s first title team. Yet through back channels they knew Roy had changed his mind and would accept their offer to come back. So they axed him after 3 years, even when notable alumni like Jordan expressed some support for Doherty.  But…3 National Titles later nobody cries for Matt Doherty. He’s probably lucky if his invitation to alumni events doesn’t get lost in the mail. 
 
It’s a cut throat business. IU’s aww shucks Mr. Magoo approach doesn’t stand a chance absent some stroke of blind luck. 
 
To wit: Today, the B1G and SEC just announced that in essence they are asserting control over major college sports. The NCAA and other conferences be damned. Beyond coaching searches, it would be cool if IU were a leading voice in this new landscape instead of just tagging along, happy to be here. But honestly, I’d settle for a successful basketball coaching search. 

IU is probably a good gig for some cause the admins won't act fast. Crean and Davis perfect examples. I was honestly stunned they didn't give archie a 5th year. I thought for sure they would bring him back cause that's what IU does.

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[str8baller 7,499]

16 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

IU is probably a good gig for some cause the admins won't act fast. Crean and Davis perfect examples. I was honestly stunned they didn't give archie a 5th year. I thought for sure they would bring him back cause that's what IU does.

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Missing 4 straight tournaments is a lot even for our administration. It hasn’t happened since before Knight. And no single coach had missed 4 straight since the 60’s under McCracken, but I think you still had to win the conference back then to get an invite.   
 

It’s damn near unthinkable for a program of our stature in a 68 team field. It hasn’t happened to Purdue since the mid 70’s when the field was much smaller.  

[TTT 1,348]

Josh Schertz Indiana State Connect’s to fans and players.  His success is a double edged sword for Indiana State.

[TTT 1,348]

4 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Missing 4 straight tournaments is a lot even for our administration. It hasn’t happened since before Knight. And no single coach had missed 4 straight since the 60’s under McCracken, but I think you still had to win the conference back then to get an invite.   
 

It’s damn near unthinkable for a program of our stature in a 68 team field. It hasn’t happened to Purdue since the mid 70’s when the field was much smaller.  

Bubbling at a 68 team field for a once great program is failure 

[Hoosierfan2017 24,888]

46 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

IU is probably a good gig for some cause the admins won't act fast. Crean and Davis perfect examples. I was honestly stunned they didn't give archie a 5th year. I thought for sure they would bring him back cause that's what IU does.

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They probably would’ve brought him back if IU hadn’t lost out. 6 straight to end the year was too much even for the IU administration. 

[cthomas 6,618]

45 minutes ago, str8baller said:

And no single coach had missed 4 straight since the 60’s under McCracken, but I think you still had to win the conference back then to get an invite.   

Teams still had to win the conference to get in early in Coach Knight's tenure. IU played in a postseason tournament for conference runners-up in 1974 called something like the commissioner's tourney or something like that.

[Hornsby 3,870]

Missing 4 straight tournaments is a lot even for our administration. It hasn’t happened since before Knight. And no single coach had missed 4 straight since the 60’s under McCracken, but I think you still had to win the conference back then to get an invite.   

 

It’s damn near unthinkable for a program of our stature in a 68 team field. It hasn’t happened to Purdue since the mid 70’s when the field was much smaller.  

True but some tried to use the argument that the covid year they would have made it. Archie still had supporters at the end who thought he deserved another year. I really didn't think theg had the guts to can him honestly.

 

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[TTT 1,348]

One step forward and two steps back…over and over again….for about one quarter of a century = this is what you got.

[Deserthoozier 1,130]

15 hours ago, str8baller said:

 

You guys are right, but I’d just like to point out two things.  
 

1) lots of coaches have these issues. If you win the fans never hear about them or dismiss them as irrelevant, and

2) it’s really easy for an Athletic Dept to push these media narratives, or even feed the stories to friendly outlets, once they make a firing.   
 

IU probably never expected some dope like Goodman to stick up for Archie, but we were still caught flatfooted with that media narrative. They should’ve had Rabjohns and a couple of others loaded with stories about how Archie was a malcontent, didn’t connect with alumni, couldn’t recruit, etc…  Instead we get painted as unrealistic lunatics of a fallen program that doesn’t deserve better than Archie. The little media battles matter for perception’s sake, especially if you don’t have a new coach signed up yet. 
 

 

This is the key…‘don’t have a new coach lined up yet’..in this day and age, with a business that is so fundamental to IU’s identity…that is where the complete mismanagement comes in. As with any major, successful business, there should ALWAYS be multiple contingency plans — and especially when you know there is a relatively strong likelihood of failure with your current leadership. At the point you get to a search, it should almost be a mere formality — ‘I’ dotting on contract negotiations - or in the worst case, finalizing among a few choice candidates. Seems like we’re always caught w/our pants down —  starting a completely ‘organic’ search, a year or so late, and millions in buyout $$ short-which concedes power and gives way to perceptions of desperation. This falls 100% on AD leadership and the president and BOD’s support for being aggressive, but strategic and stealth. We operate like it’s still the 1950’s with a lot of hope. I’m not certain how sensitive the admin is to the current situation, but the knocking on the door is deafening, and likely not going away!

[str8baller 7,499]

14 hours ago, Hornsby said:

True but some tried to use the argument that the covid year they would have made it. Archie still had supporters at the end who thought he deserved another year. I really didn't think theg had the guts to can him honestly.

 

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That a fair point about the covid year. I wasn’t counting that. And I was pretty out on Archie by then and don’t remember how likely it was we were a sure tourney team. I think even counting that season following up that year with another miss going 1/4 is justification for getting canned at IU. 

[8bucks 7,552]

43 minutes ago, Deserthoozier said:

This is the key…‘don’t have a new coach lined up yet’..in this day and age, with a business that is so fundamental to IU’s identity…that is where the complete mismanagement comes in. As with any major, successful business, there should ALWAYS be multiple contingency plans — and especially when you know there is a relatively strong likelihood of failure with your current leadership. At the point you get to a search, it should almost be a mere formality — ‘I’ dotting on contract negotiations - or in the worst case, finalizing among a few choice candidates. Seems like we’re always caught w/our pants down —  starting a completely ‘organic’ search, a year or so late, and millions in buyout $$ short-which concedes power and gives way to perceptions of desperation. This falls 100% on AD leadership and the president and BOD’s support for being aggressive, but strategic and stealth. We operate like it’s still the 1950’s with a lot of hope. I’m not certain how sensitive the admin is to the current situation, but the knocking on the door is deafening, and likely not going away!

This is probably the goal but candidates play the game too and give all the right signals but often decide to stay when you need them to sign. UCLA even UNC had trouble until Roy changed his mind after they hired Daugherty. If you have followed other school hirings the last few years this happens a lot. 
 

 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan 6,695]

One step forward and two steps back…over and over again….for about one quarter of a century = this is what you got.

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=lTHCwU9rUdY&si=CMlnIYo9hbAgf_WX

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[TTT 1,348]

http://the Athletic.com//josh Schertz article (google it)

Today’s (temporary and fleeting) happiness for Indiana State and fun as long as it lasts.