General Coach Candidate News

[NashvilleHoosier 3,696]

2 hours ago, Hardwood83 said:

I agree with you, but IU has put themselves in the corner. Year 4 is nearly complete and IU has virtually nothing to show for Archie's tenure. Losing Big Ten record, 0 NCAA's, stalled recruiting. At some point you have to be honest and say this isn't working and there is no real expectation of change on the horizon. 

Pay now or pay later. Moral of the story is making the wrong hire is expensive and devastating to your program. 

I get what you're saying, but this isn't an entirely fair assessment. If we are truly judging results, he has 1 NCAA tournament appearance. There is plenty else to judge, yes, but that would have made his 3 year progression: no postseason, NIT quarters, NCAA tourney. I'm not happy with where we are and I'm not advocating that he's the guy. But if he goes, I'll feel most sorry for him not having the chance to finish last season. It very well could have ended with a loss to PSU on thursday in the BTT and an immediate bounce in an 8/9 game the following thursday. But it could have also ended in a decent run in the BTT, a win as a #7 seed in the first round and who knows what could happen in a matchup vs. a 2 seed. (cue the "uh yeah we weren't gonna beat PSU and weren't gonna win any tournament games and my evidence is that i'm just pissed off all the time" crowd)

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,660]

30 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

I get what you're saying, but this isn't an entirely fair assessment. If we are truly judging results, he has 1 NCAA tournament appearance. There is plenty else to judge, yes, but that would have made his 3 year progression: no postseason, NIT quarters, NCAA tourney. I'm not happy with where we are and I'm not advocating that he's the guy. But if he goes, I'll feel most sorry for him not having the chance to finish last season. It very well could have ended with a loss to PSU on thursday in the BTT and an immediate bounce in an 8/9 game the following thursday. But it could have also ended in a decent run in the BTT, a win as a #7 seed in the first round and who knows what could happen in a matchup vs. a 2 seed. (cue the "uh yeah we weren't gonna beat PSU and weren't gonna win any tournament games and my evidence is that i'm just pissed off all the time" crowd)

But he doesn't have an NCAA tourney appearance. That's just reality. "Ifs" mean nothing. Will they make the tourney this year? Maybe, even with a pathetic resume. But as of now he's a loser in the Big Ten, 1-2 in the B1G Tourney and has zero NCAA tourney appearances. He's barely over .500 at home and has an awful road record. He has yet to beat Purdue and Michigan. He's been absolutely awful. 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,696]

4 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

But he doesn't have an NCAA tourney appearance. That's just reality. "Ifs" mean nothing. Will they make the tourney this year? Maybe, even with a pathetic resume. But as of now he's a loser in the Big Ten, 1-2 in the B1G Tourney and has zero NCAA tourney appearances. He's barely over .500 at home and has an awful road record. He has yet to beat Purdue and Michigan. He's been absolutely awful. 

Re-read my post (a practice you could put to use far more often than you are). See in particular the part where I said, "There is plenty else to judge, yes...". 

I agree, on the very surface level, on paper, he does not have a NCAA tournament appearance. If our conversation is has Archie coached IU in a NCAA tournament, the answer is no. If the conversation is should he be fired, and one of the criteria is to evaluate NCAA tournament appearances, that requires far more context and critical thinking. If you are prepared to say that one of the reasons that should factor into him being fired is b/c we have zero NCAA tourney appearances, you are not qualified to make that decision b/c you lack the ability to think critically and put things in proper context, which I'm not surprised to be typing right now. 1 appearance may not be enough either, but in the context of that discussion, he has 1 appearance. 

 

[TheWatShot 13,827]

For me, it shouldn't be about what would have happened last season. The focus should be on why we're still struggling to make the tournament in his fourth year.

 

If we had a strong team that was going to easily make it this time, BTN wouldn't be showing graphics headlined "NCAA tournament droughts" during our games just so they could include us. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,660]

7 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Re-read my post (a practice you could put to use far more often than you are). See in particular the part where I said, "There is plenty else to judge, yes...". 

I agree, on the very surface level, on paper, he does not have a NCAA tournament appearance. If our conversation is has Archie coached IU in a NCAA tournament, the answer is no. If the conversation is should he be fired, and one of the criteria is to evaluate NCAA tournament appearances, that requires far more context and critical thinking. If you are prepared to say that one of the reasons that should factor into him being fired is b/c we have zero NCAA tourney appearances, you are not qualified to make that decision b/c you lack the ability to think critically and put things in proper context, which I'm not surprised to be typing right now. 1 appearance may not be enough either, but in the context of that discussion, he has 1 appearance. 

 

No a likely crappy seed in the NCAA tourney is not enough. Losing 12 of 13 with one of the best guard talents since Eric Gordon is not enough. 1 NCAA tourney appearance or even 2 with terrible seeds isn't enough to overcome a losing conference record, abysmal road record, hardly over .500 conference home record, terrible in game coaching, terrible player development.. should we continue?

[NashvilleHoosier 3,696]

1 minute ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

No a likely crappy seed in the NCAA tourney is not enough. Losing 12 of 13 with one of the best guard talents since Eric Gordon is not enough. 1 NCAA tourney appearance or even 2 with terrible seeds isn't enough to overcome a losing conference record, abysmal road record, hardly over .500 conference home record, terrible in game coaching, terrible player development.. should we continue?

You could write a book on how to miss the point. Re-read my 2nd post (a practice you could put to use far more often than you are). In particular the part where I tell you to re-read my first post, in particular the part where I say, "There is plenty else to judge, yes...". Like all the things you're mentioning. My statement of "there is plenty else to judge" is literally acknowledging that an NCAA tournament appearance is not the ONLY thing to judge. But all of those other things had nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. You're fighting a battle at a war that isn't even happening right now. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,125]

1 hour ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Re-read my post (a practice you could put to use far more often than you are). See in particular the part where I said, "There is plenty else to judge, yes...". 

I agree, on the very surface level, on paper, he does not have a NCAA tournament appearance. If our conversation is has Archie coached IU in a NCAA tournament, the answer is no. If the conversation is should he be fired, and one of the criteria is to evaluate NCAA tournament appearances, that requires far more context and critical thinking. If you are prepared to say that one of the reasons that should factor into him being fired is b/c we have zero NCAA tourney appearances, you are not qualified to make that decision b/c you lack the ability to think critically and put things in proper context, which I'm not surprised to be typing right now. 1 appearance may not be enough either, but in the context of that discussion, he has 1 appearance. 

 

He really doesn’t though. The tournament got canceled. No one had an NCAA tournament appearance last year because it didn’t happen. Would IU have made it last year? Yeah, probably, but it’s a lot of what if’s. There was no tournament, and they didn’t even select the teams. IU had a losing conference record and finished t-10th in the Big 10. If we would’ve gotten into the tournament, it would’ve been because of the strength of the Big 19, not because we earned it with our play on the court. The personal potshots at LCS don’t change that. 

[Stuhoo 80,104]

9 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

He really doesn’t though. The tournament got canceled. No one had an NCAA tournament appearance last year because it didn’t happen. Would IU have made it last year? Yeah, probably, but it’s a lot of what if’s. There was no tournament, and they didn’t even select the teams. IU had a losing conference record and finished t-10th in the Big 10. If we would’ve gotten into the tournament, it would’ve been because of the strength of the Big 19, not because we earned it with our play on the court. The personal potshots at LCS don’t change that. 

 

I'll just say...for all the people that state that Archie hasn't accomplished anything in four years, many are more than willing to only look at a three year scope of potential tournament appearances.

Let's compare apples to apples: Archie is 0-2 in NCAA tournament appearances--last year we wouldn't have been in the tourney even if we went undefeated (though it would be disingenuous to say that we weren't going to be in had they played it), and the jury is still out on this year.

So, the literal year-to-year progression has been:

1. No tourney
2. NIT
3. This year: TBD

[Hoosierfan2017 21,125]

20 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

I'll just say...for all the people that state that Archie hasn't accomplished anything in four years, many are more than willing to only look at a three year scope of potential tournament appearances.

Let's compare apples to apples: Archie is 0-2 in NCAA tournament appearances--last year we wouldn't have been in the tourney even if we went undefeated (though it would be disingenuous to say that we weren't going to be in had they played it), and the jury is still out on this year.

So, the literal year-to-year progression has been:

1. No tourney
2. NIT
3. This year: TBD

The year-to-year progression in the conference has been multiple steps backwards.

      1. T-6th

      2. T-9th

      3. T-10th

      4. TBD

While the team improved as a whole in the first three years, we’ve been outpaced in the conference.. Right now we’re T-7th with a brutal rest of the schedule waiting for us. @Northwestern is the easiest game we have left, and we already lost to them at home this season. 
 

But what’s worse than the final results we’ve gotten is how we’ve gotten them. It’s year 4 and still half the time we turn on the tv to see a team that looks like it couldn’t care less about the game. It’s been four years of “why can’t they play like that all the time” after a big win, followed by a let down a game or two later. We’ve lost so many games under Archie’s tenure because we’ve gotten outworked. 
 

Four seasons of that wears on you as a fan, and slipping into the tournament isn’t going to make up for it. We haven’t beaten Purdue since February 2016. We haven’t been ranked since January 2019. Archie is going to have to start putting together solid seasons from start to finish if he wants to keep his job. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,660]

17 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

I'll just say...for all the people that state that Archie hasn't accomplished anything in four years, many are more than willing to only look at a three year scope of potential tournament appearances.

Let's compare apples to apples: Archie is 0-2 in NCAA tournament appearances--last year we wouldn't have been in the tourney even if we went undefeated (though it would be disingenuous to say that we weren't going to be in had they played it), and the jury is still out on this year.

So, the literal year-to-year progression has been:

1. No tourney
2. NIT
3. This year: TBD

We can still look at last year. Which was 9-11 in conference, good for 10th in conference. He was 7-3 at in conference but 2-8 on the road. His legacy at Indiana is a Devonte Green chest code game, beating Michigan State, beating his first Top 5 team in Iowa and getting whooped by Purdue multiple times. 

[JSHoosier 19,995]

2 hours ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Re-read my post (a practice you could put to use far more often than you are). See in particular the part where I said, "There is plenty else to judge, yes...". 

I agree, on the very surface level, on paper, he does not have a NCAA tournament appearance. If our conversation is has Archie coached IU in a NCAA tournament, the answer is no. If the conversation is should he be fired, and one of the criteria is to evaluate NCAA tournament appearances, that requires far more context and critical thinking. If you are prepared to say that one of the reasons that should factor into him being fired is b/c we have zero NCAA tourney appearances, you are not qualified to make that decision b/c you lack the ability to think critically and put things in proper context, which I'm not surprised to be typing right now. 1 appearance may not be enough either, but in the context of that discussion, he has 1 appearance. 

 

You can't appear in a tournament that didn't happen, so no he doesn’t have an NCAA appearance here.

[IUc2016 7,121]

3 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

You can't appear in a tournament that didn't happen, so no he doesn’t have an NCAA appearance here.

Literally another person who didn't read the post but put in their two cents anyway. thank you 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,696]

1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

He really doesn’t though. The tournament got canceled. No one had an NCAA tournament appearance last year because it didn’t happen. Would IU have made it last year? Yeah, probably, but it’s a lot of what if’s. There was no tournament, and they didn’t even select the teams. IU had a losing conference record and finished t-10th in the Big 10. If we would’ve gotten into the tournament, it would’ve been because of the strength of the Big 19, not because we earned it with our play on the court. The personal potshots at LCS don’t change that. 

Yes, I know. On paper, he doesn't have one. I'm not going to type out everything again. Just re-read my posts. 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,696]

20 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

You can't appear in a tournament that didn't happen, so no he doesn’t have an NCAA appearance here.

Yes, thank you. 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,696]

My intention was never to dig up any discussion about whether Archie is worthy of continuing to be the coach and debating his resume. That's all been covered plenty so I was definitely not trying to start that debate. It was about evaluating the one single point of NCAA tourney appearances (while again, I'm acknowledging there is plenty of other things he should be judged on). If you are prepared to say that his evaluation on whether he should be fired or not should include NCAA tournament appearances, and you're assessment is that he should be judged as being 0-3 on NCAA tournament appearances, you are not applying the proper context and critical thinking necessary. 

[Stuhoo 80,104]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

We can still look at last year. Which was 9-11 in conference, good for 10th in conference. He was 7-3 at in conference but 2-8 on the road. His legacy at Indiana is a Devonte Green chest code game, beating Michigan State, beating his first Top 5 team in Iowa and getting whooped by Purdue multiple times. 

What the heck is a "chest code game?" 

Is that like when MJ destroyed the Utah Jazz with the flu? Wait that's chest cold. Although, when I have a chest cold, I probably pronounce it "code." 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,125]

7 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Yes, I know. On paper, he doesn't have one. I'm not going to type out everything again. Just re-read my posts. 

Yeah, I reread your posts. You stated 

“If you are prepared to say that one of the reasons that should factor into him being fired is b/c we have zero NCAA tourney appearances, you are not qualified to make that decision b/c you lack the ability to think critically and put things in proper context, which I'm not surprised to be typing right now.”

We have zero tournament appearances under Archie. Last year, it’s likely we would’ve made the tournament. But it wasn’t a given. Weirder things have happened.
 

The “context” is that we went 9-11 in the conference and finished T-10th. We were the 11th seed in the conference tournament because we lost the tiebreaker. We very well could’ve been in a position where we were a shoo-in for the tournament. At one point we were 15-4. Then, we went 4-8 over our last 12 regular season games. 
 

But, ultimately it doesn’t really matter. It’s semantics. Archie’s job at IU won’t be saved or lost by a tournament appearance in an NCAA tournament that never happened. 

[Hoosierfan2017 21,125]

3 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

My intention was never to dig up any discussion about whether Archie is worthy of continuing to be the coach and debating his resume. That's all been covered plenty so I was definitely not trying to start that debate. It was about evaluating the one single point of NCAA tourney appearances (while again, I'm acknowledging there is plenty of other things he should be judged on). If you are prepared to say that his evaluation on whether he should be fired or not should include NCAA tournament appearances, and you're assessment is that he should be judged as being 0-3 on NCAA tournament appearances, you are not applying the proper context and critical thinking necessary. 

Well hey, I agree with you here. If someone is saying he’s 0-3 in tournament appearances at IU then they’re not applying the right context. But, that’s not what I’m doing, and I’m not seeing anyone else do it either. He’s not 0-3 in making the tournament. He didn’t miss last year’s tournament. But he didn’t make it either. The tournament just didn’t happen, so we’re left to evaluate that season on what did.

[Uspshoosier 45,502]

8 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Yeah, I reread your posts. You stated 

“If you are prepared to say that one of the reasons that should factor into him being fired is b/c we have zero NCAA tourney appearances, you are not qualified to make that decision b/c you lack the ability to think critically and put things in proper context, which I'm not surprised to be typing right now.”

We have zero tournament appearances under Archie. Last year, it’s likely we would’ve made the tournament. But it wasn’t a given. Weirder things have happened.
 

The “context” is that we went 9-11 in the conference and finished T-10th. We were the 11th seed in the conference tournament because we lost the tiebreaker. We very well could’ve been in a position where we were a shoo-in for the tournament. At one point we were 15-4. Then, we went 4-8 over our last 12 regular season games. 
 

But, ultimately it doesn’t really matter. It’s semantics. Archie’s job at IU won’t be saved or lost by a tournament appearance in an NCAA tournament that never happened. 

IU would of made the tourney last year.  With the Nebraska win in the tourney pretty much locked them in with a  no worse then a 10-11 seed.  But as you said it doesn’t matter now.   Sucks for IU fans and their players that they didn’t get a chance to see their team compete in the tournament when they had a resume deserving of one.   Just think how it feels to be a Dayton fan.   Grant coached them to a once in a lifetime season at Dayton where they would of gotten a 2 seed and would of been a serious threat to win it.   But like IU and others Dayton best regular  season goes on without an ncaa tournament appearance.  It’s like that season happened for them and Grant.   Now they are back down to reality and will be fighting for an appearance 

[HoosierAloha 30,057]

Good ****, we’ll argue over anything when one possesses a strong opinion about something, regardless of right or wrong.

The ******* point was there are plenty of reasons Archie could/should be fired. It’s ******* hilarious that you knew the ones who would be bitching and moaning about even mentioning Archie and tournament appearance in the same post.

The fact is the resume of the team Archie was coaching last season was good enough to have made the tournament. AND it’s still fair to think Archie should be let go.

cRiTIcAl ******* tHiNKinG IS hARd!


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