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[HoosierAloha 30,100]

12 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I actually watched the season highlights from the 15-16 season. One thing I noticed, Zeisloft, Hartman, Yogi, Johnson were shooting often with guys closing out on them. They were always ready to shoot. A hand in the face was whatever. If there was any space at all, they were shooting. I noticed under Archie and Woodson that guys aren't ready to shoot and shot fake if anyone is coming at them to contest. How many times did we see Kopp shot fake when he could have shot? He's 6-8, there weren't a ton of dudes going to block his shot. But it's as if they are coached to not shoot unless they are WIDE open. Really doesn't make anyone a threat as shooters because there is always a defender close enough to make our guys second guess, rather than just letting it fly when they have the space.

Weird, it's almost like people on here pointed that out dating back to last season but it wasn't corrected. I'm not suggesting we need to become gunners but a slight adjustment could make a world of difference. It's probably Archie's fault they were doing that this season too.

[str8baller 6,645]

13 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

They were always ready to shoot. A hand in the face was whatever. If there was any space at all, they were shooting. I noticed under Archie and Woodson that guys aren't ready to shoot and shot fake if anyone is coming at them to contest. How many times did we see Kopp shot fake when he could have shot? 

Good point. And one I’ve made before: Kopp is one of the worst “shooters” at 1) finding space and 2) being ready to shoot that I can remember.   
 

Nice player, but if his bbiq were a little higher he could’ve been a lot more impactful. 

[Scotty R 2,939]

1 hour ago, HoosierAloha said:

Who/what do you believe has an impact on the program winning and how would you rank them?

There isn't just 1 thing that has contributed to us not winning like we want to. 

First thing I blame was President Herbert making the AD hire Sampson over Beilein

I blame RMK not being able to control himself

I blame the AF for hiring Miller who I was against hiring in the first place. 

I blame fans for turning on coaches to early which I believe effects recruiting. 

I think over zealous fans contacting recruits on social media isn't helpful

 

[Scotty R 2,939]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Z played before they moved the 3pt line back, again. 15/16 just had more ppl that could create for others. Zeisloft had a quicker trigger, it served him well. I think Miller was better overall. Miller's effectiveness diminished some when XJ went out. TG/Bates don't have the passing ability or the ability to breakdown a defense like XJ. 

Man we had nice pieces if XJ stays healthy. sucks. 

 

Ziesloft also didn't just stand in the corner waiting for a pass. They moved him and even ran him off screens 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 10,381]

26 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

I actually watched the season highlights from the 15-16 season. One thing I noticed, Zeisloft, Hartman, Yogi, Johnson were shooting often with guys closing out on them. They were always ready to shoot. A hand in the face was whatever. If there was any space at all, they were shooting. I noticed under Archie and Woodson that guys aren't ready to shoot and shot fake if anyone is coming at them to contest. How many times did we see Kopp shot fake when he could have shot? He's 6-8, there weren't a ton of dudes going to block his shot. But it's as if they are coached to not shoot unless they are WIDE open. Really doesn't make anyone a threat as shooters because there is always a defender close enough to make our guys second guess, rather than just letting it fly when they have the space.

Kopp has a slowwwww release. To the bold--- not half as many times as some think. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 10,381]

Just now, Scotty R said:

Ziesloft also didn't just stand in the corner waiting for a pass. They moved him and even ran him off screens 

Ziesloft didn't play with any post presence. Spacing was tough on this group because of the lack of skill sets. Kopp stood in the corner to stretch the defense the most. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 10,381]

3 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

There isn't just 1 thing that has contributed to us not winning like we want to. 

First thing I blame was President Herbert making the AD hire Sampson over Beilein

I blame RMK not being able to control himself

I blame the AF for hiring Miller who I was against hiring in the first place. 

I blame fans for turning on coaches to early which I believe effects recruiting. 

I think over zealous fans contacting recruits on social media isn't helpful

 

Hiring Davis, imo, should be on the list. F what Dane Fife said the players were going to do. 

[Silat Player 1,154]

1 minute ago, Scotty R said:

There isn't just 1 thing that has contributed to us not winning like we want to. 

First thing I blame was President Herbert making the AD hire Sampson over Beilein

I blame RMK not being able to control himself

I blame the AF for hiring Miller who I was against hiring in the first place. 

I blame fans for turning on coaches to early which I believe effects recruiting. 

I think over zealous fans contacting recruits on social media isn't helpful

 

I've got to disagree with the "I blame fans for turning on coaches to [sic] early which i believe effects [sic] recruiting."

I think you're overestimating the power and significance of the fans. Every major program has a slew of overzealous fans. UK, Duke, UNC, Kansas. They all have them. It doesn't seem to negatively impact their recruiting at all. 

Do you think that UK fans have been happy with how Calipari has done over the past few years? They have the number 1 recruiting class coming in. They had a top 5 class the two years before that. I didn't check the years before that, but you see what I'm saying. 

And there are no fans who complain more than UK fans when the team underachieves. 

Don't blame fans for lack of recruiting. It's a crazy argument. LOL

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 10,381]

17 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

 

Was that the year JBJ went down?

I don't think it would have effected his numbers that much. Would it have effected them some? Probably. The bigger issue was the difference in attempts. Where have we heard this? Looking at the numbers is pretty close to what I thought. Zeisloft a bit better on offense and Kopp slightly better on defense. The offense they played in had a lot to do with that. Maybe Kopp has better numbers playing in Crean's offense but not sure he's that kind of player. Zeisloft had more mobility and think he might have been slightly better off a dribble or two.

Crazy to look at the recruiting rankings and see the differences in the teams. You could argue that the 22/23 team had a little more talent on paper while the 15/16 team had some underrated players.

The 15/16 team didn't just have one big that shot from deep but two!! Was that team a more modern offense than the team 7 years later?

I have no idea. Where? 

I agree, Z had more of wiggle to him. He could contort his body more effectively than Kopp can during a shot attempt. Plus again, his trigger is just miles quicker. 

I don't look at recruit rankings, basically ever. 

And yes, of course, it was a more modern team, but again.. PLENTY of ppl on here HATED it.. That isn't news, and it isn't some knock on Woodson and staff that you think it is. You don't remember "we shoot too many 3s" or "live by the 3, die by the 3" comments during the Crean years? 

[Scotty R 2,939]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Hiring Davis, imo, should be on the list. F what Dane Fife said the players were going to do. 

At least he took us to a championship game and had the lead with 10 minutes to go in the game.

[Scotty R 2,939]

2 minutes ago, Silat Player said:

I've got to disagree with the "I blame fans for turning on coaches to [sic] early which i believe effects [sic] recruiting."

I think you're overestimating the power and significance of the fans. Every major program has a slew of overzealous fans. UK, Duke, UNC, Kansas. They all have them. It doesn't seem to negatively impact their recruiting at all. 

Do you think that UK fans have been happy with how Calipari has done over the past few years? They have the number 1 recruiting class coming in. They had a top 5 class the two years before that. I didn't check the years before that, but you see what I'm saying. 

And there are no fans who complain more than UK fans when the team underachieves. 

Don't blame fans for lack of recruiting. It's a crazy argument. LOL

Everyone knows why UK and Duke has gotten most of the top recruits. Also most of them are one and done so they only have to put up with those fans for 8 months

[Silat Player 1,154]

Davis was basically our Kevin Ollie. He was lucky to hit on one talented, cohesive group of players who had a great run in the tournament. After that, he showed that he was incapable of sustaining a program on his own, though. 

[8bucks 7,105]

31 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

I am one of the biggest Woodson supporters but IMO the 23 class isn't as good as it should be & I don't think we've done a good job in the portal so far. 24 class is going to be a big moment in his tenure. 

Next year is big for Woody.  Archie and even Crean had some early recruiting success. Crean followed, eventually, with a good team in 12/13 and had momentum with the Movement.  Then we lost all that momentum and became an up and way down program.  I am hoping Woody keeps us from that route and being in the tournament next year should still be the expectation/goal.  The exception to that could be if we relied a lot on some underclassmen who clearly improved as the year went on and just missed the tournament but make a big run in the NIT.  If we have a youth based team with those kind of results that clearly indicate the following year we should be a top 15 team then that would work too. We just cannot drop back to bottom half of the BT team and expect to have recruiting success

[Brass Cannon 25,176]

Just now, 8bucks said:

Next year is big for Woody.  Archie and even Crean had some early recruiting success. Crean followed, eventually, with a good team in 12/13 and had momentum with the Movement.  Then we lost all that momentum and became an up and way down program.  I am hoping Woody keeps us from that route and being in the tournament next year should still be the expectation/goal.  The exception to that could be if we relied a lot on some underclassmen who clearly improved as the year went on and just missed the tournament but make a big run in the NIT.  If we have a youth based team with those kind of results that clearly indicate the following year we should be a top 15 team then that would work too. We just cannot drop back to bottom half of the BT team and expect to have recruiting success

Yep. Woodson needs Ware and XJ to be the best duo in college basketball or we are going to be hurting 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 10,381]

1 minute ago, Scotty R said:

At least he took us to a championship game and had the lead with 10 minutes to go in the game.

HE did that? lol 

No. He fouled Jayson Williams and about got us beat. That's what he did. He was an average role player, and started hitting 3 as a SR. Dane had a disappointing career for what he was billed as.  

Fife started every game SO-SR... check his stats and compare them to TG. 

[str8baller 6,645]

22 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

Rutgers wasn't pursued b/c the B1G was after some audience that would tune in to watch Rutgers. Nor were they pursued b/c at the time they might have looked like a rising program. They were pursued b/c the 2 biggest media markets with the largest collective number of B1G alumni outside the then current B1G footprint were NYC and DC

That makes very little sense. “Nobody watches them so we have to have them so they put us on tv, cause nobody watches them!” B1G network is available (or was before streaming made this whole discussion largely irrelevant) in Florida and Florida doesn’t have a B1G university. In fact it made so much sense comcast dropped the B1G in New York in 2018 according to Google. 
 

Rutgers was a dumb add. I’ll buy that it was caused because the B1G was inept at negotiating with cable companies, but that doesn’t make it any less dumb. Again, there’s a lack of foresight on the streaming component but that’s hard to kill them on that 15yrs ago.   
 

Either way, Indiana doesn’t have the luxury of being attached to a major media market like Rutgers. We’d be Kansas with much worse basketball. I don’t see how are recruiting would improve by being in the B12 or BE. 

[Scotty R 2,939]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

HE did that? lol 

No. He fouled Jayson Williams and about got us beat. That's what he did. He was an average role player, and started hitting 3 as a SR. Dane had a disappointing career for what he was billed as.  

Fife started every game SO-SR... check his stats and compare them to TG. 

Talking about Davis, not Fife

[pumpfake 4,237]

16 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Hiring Davis, imo, should be on the list. F what Dane Fife said the players were going to do. 

lol, that fact is why I would always grit my teeth and/or cringe when he was suggested as a possible future  HC for us.

[Golfman25 6,307]

Revisionist history.  If we don’t hire Davis after Knight, the chit show only starts that many years earlier.  Knight players leave, and the new coach has to start from scratch following a legend.  Yeah that would have been successful.   

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 10,381]

5 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

Revisionist history.  If we don’t hire Davis after Knight, the chit show only starts that many years earlier.  Knight players leave, and the new coach has to start from scratch following a legend.  Yeah that would have been successful.   

Or.. the players would have not actually left, regardless of who we hired.