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Class of '66 Old Fart

Coronavirus and Its Impact

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9 hours ago, Old Friend said:

 

The overall point is this pandemic was on nobody's radar, and the states have to blame themselves first.  Probably no one particular administration, but there was nobody in charge of "triage federal stockpile medical equipment to send to states in case of a pandemic that hits us in a blink of an eye."   It's unrealistic to think there would have been.  This was going to be a clusterbomb regardless of who was in the White House or running the NIH.

I disagree.  Please read this about George W Bush.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/george-bush-2005-wait-pandemic-late-prepare/story?id=69979013&fbclid=IwAR1Fh97YfVhBbG18TQFsR7PlKbIjTm92_gEl28tWdJrczDrMiVBgAo2rMHM

Then this from Obama's tenure:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-appointees-trained-pandemic-response-in-2016-2020-3?amp

The fact is, President Trump didn't put priority in this while his predecessors did.  He then refused to see the problem, politicizing it as a hoax instead.  

I'm proud to be registered no party affiliation.  I am in no way trying to pump democrats and bash Trump.  I think both parties act like petulant children.

But to say nobody could have seen this coming is false.  Trump's immediate predecessors did while Trump eliminated the pandemics team.  

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2 minutes ago, Josh said:

I disagree.  Please read this about George W Bush.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/george-bush-2005-wait-pandemic-late-prepare/story?id=69979013&fbclid=IwAR1Fh97YfVhBbG18TQFsR7PlKbIjTm92_gEl28tWdJrczDrMiVBgAo2rMHM

Then this from Obama's tenure:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-appointees-trained-pandemic-response-in-2016-2020-3?amp

The fact is, President Trump didn't put priority in this while his predecessors did.  He then refused to see the problem, politicizing it as a hoax instead.  

I'm proud to be registered no party affiliation.  I am in no way trying to pump democrats and bash Trump.  I think both parties act like petulant children.

But to say nobody could have seen this coming is false.  Trump's immediate predecessors did while Trump eliminated the pandemics team.  

You lose credibility with your statement in bold.  This is false.  Fake.  Not true.  In fact, Biden said the same thing and ended up apologizing and taking down the tweet in which he said it.  Trump called the media's treatment of him "their latest hoax," not the virus.  This is factually inaccurate and has been widely regarded as such.  

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8 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

You lose credibility with your statement in bold.  This is false.  Fake.  Not true.  In fact, Biden said the same thing and ended up apologizing and taking down the tweet in which he said it.  Trump called the media's treatment of him "their latest hoax," not the virus.  This is factually inaccurate and has been widely regarded as such.  

If you want to say so.  Don't lose track of the whole post for the one sentence you disagree with though.

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12 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

I've bit my tongue and can't do it any longer, especially on your first point.  That "scam" was about a textbook violation of the Impoundment Control Act of 1974, he broke the law when he withheld Congressionally approved funding.

No he didn't.  That's not accurate, and in fact the president of Ukraine substantiated this.   That's one thing this democrat committee said he did, but it's not accurate.  The funds to Ukraine were delayed, but still released ($35 million) within the allotted time window.  (Window expired September 30th.  Funds released September 27th, but the temporary hold was actually lifted on September 11)  The law wouldn't have been broken until October 1st. 

So all he did was piss people off.  That's not an impeachable offense.  He did not break the law, nor did he withhold funding.

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Old Friend, I'm not interested in a purely political debate.  I'm independent and believe strongly that our country is in desperate need of compromise, as we watch our political parties give us nothing but the opposite.  I'm very disappointed in Trump's response to this crisis, and cherry picked facts/defenses won't change that.  I'm also very disappointed in the Democrats, for what it's worth.  You are correct that experts should have advised our leaders to act more quickly.  I believe quite a few did, whether they were government employees or advising from afar via the press.  Moving past that, we need more tests, ICU beds and medical supplies.  We've collectively been painfully slow to secure those things, because we've failed to act with the decisiveness that we've seen work elsewhere (China, S. Korea, Germany).  That's not a political statement.  It's a fact.  Our leaders have not used all of the powers available to them to secure those things.  That is also a fact. 

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31 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

No he didn't.  That's not accurate, and in fact the president of Ukraine substantiated this.   That's one thing this democrat committee said he did, but it's not accurate.  The funds to Ukraine were delayed, but still released ($35 million) within the allotted time window.  (Window expired September 30th.  Funds released September 27th, but the temporary hold was actually lifted on September 11)  The law wouldn't have been broken until October 1st. 

So all he did was piss people off.  That's not an impeachable offense.  He did not break the law, nor did he withhold funding.

Released after Congress started investigating; I'm not going to give anyone, regardless of party, slack for "following" the law after their actions come to the attention of the people with power hold them accountable.  Just because you stop selling meth after the authorities start sniffing around doesn't mean you weren't a drug dealer. 

At best it's an abuse of power, one that McConnell and company would be furious about if the situation was reversed and they would've removed a Democrat for doing that.

I'm not the most liberal person around, but Democrats didn't do anything Republicans wouldn't have done.

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I am far from a Trump fan. Because of him, 16 was the first time in my life I didn't vote Republican for President in my life. I won't again this year. Of course I didn't vote for Hillary either and won't vote for the Democratic nominee either. I will vote Libertarian or Constitution Party.

Having said that, when Trump banned travel from China because of the outbreak there, the left attacked him for being racist and xenophobic. I have no doubt if he would have done anything else , he would have been attacked by the left.

He hasn't been perfect, but when Cuomo, Blasio and Newsome "praise" his response, he hasn't been a failure like some of you portray him as.

As I posted above, 2 months ago no one took it very seriously. You can read what the WHO said as late as Jan 15th above and the headlines from across the country in Feb and early March.

Revisionist History is laughable.

 

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46 minutes ago, Golfman25 said:

It goes like this:

Trump — “the sky is blue.”

The TDS infected — “no it isn’t.”

 

This goes both ways.  There are people who will defend Trump no matter what and there are people who will bash him no matter what.  It's disgusting for both groups.

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Just now, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

I am far from a Trump fan. Be cause of him, 16 was the first time in my life I didn't vote Republican for President in my life. I won't again this year. Of course I didn't vote for Hillary either and won't vote for the Democratic nominee either. I will vote Libertarian or Constitution Party.
Having said that, when Trump banned travel from China because of the outbreak there, the left attacked him for being racist and xenophobic. I have no doubt if he would have done anything else , he would have been attacked by the left.
He hasn't been perfect, but when Cuomo, Blasio and Newsome "praise" his response, he hasn't been a failure like some of you portray him as.
As I posted above, 2 months ago no one took it very seriously. You can read what the WHO said as late as Jan 15th above and the headlines from across the country in Feb and early March.
Revisionist History is laughable.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

You don't have to go back to Jan 15th to see the lack of response.

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1 hour ago, maharkn said:

Employees do not count in that number

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Simply put, that's wrong.  Not counting employees in the count -- and I have to assume that is a significant number -- at least externally seems to be a statement by Wal-Mart that they value the customers but not the employees.  The protection is supposed to be there for both.

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9 minutes ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

I am far from a Trump fan. Because of him, 16 was the first time in my life I didn't vote Republican for President in my life. I won't again this year. Of course I didn't vote for Hillary either and won't vote for the Democratic nominee either. I will vote Libertarian or Constitution Party.

Having said that, when Trump banned travel from China because of the outbreak there, the left attacked him for being racist and xenophobic. I have no doubt if he would have done anything else , he would have been attacked by the left.

He hasn't been perfect, but when Cuomo, Blasio and Newsome "praise" his response, he hasn't been a failure like some of you portray him as.

As I posted above, 2 months ago no one took it very seriously. You can read what the WHO said as late as Jan 15th above and the headlines from across the country in Feb and early March.

Revisionist History is laughable.

 

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I don't fault a travel ban to China after this started, in fact I can't say I wouldn't have done the same thing.  I can say with 100% certainty that I wouldn't have have fired the team that was assembled for situations like this.  There's A LOT of things Trump has done that I wouldn't have, but I can't put that travel ban on the list.

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12 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

It's certainly not the only thing I worry about, but 1000% agree with you on that.  Was happy to see that it looks like Wal-Mart is now limiting the number of customers that can be in the store at one time.

Might be a store by store basis on that.  I went to Walmart this weekend for groceries and they weren't limiting the number of people in the store.  They were sterilizing carts after being used, they closed one of the doors to emergency exit only, they had signs and markers for 6 ft spacing, they sterilized debit card pads after each use.

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It's all Toronto's fault.
1918 - Toronto wins Stanley Cup / 1919 - Stanley Cup canceled
1993 - Toronto wins World Series / 1994 - World Series canceled
2019 - Toronto wins NBA Finals / 2020 - ??
Frickin Canada!

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I don't fault a travel ban to China after this started, in fact I can't say I wouldn't have done the same thing.  I can say with 100% certainty that I wouldn't have have fired the team that was assembled for situations like this.  There's A LOT of things Trump has done that I wouldn't have, but I can't put that travel ban on the list.
Yet many, like Chuck Schumer, did

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Might be a store by store basis on that.  I went to Walmart this weekend for groceries and they weren't limiting the number of people in the store.  They were sterilizing carts after being used, they closed one of the doors to emergency exit only, they had signs and markers for 6 ft spacing, they sterilized debit card pads after each use.
There is a limit at all stores. Just depends on the size of the store. If it's a 200,000 square foot store that's almost a 1000 people so it might not seem like they are limiting. There is someone somewhere keeping track of who is coming and going

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1 hour ago, triple said:

Old Friend, I'm not interested in a purely political debate.  I'm independent and believe strongly that our country is in desperate need of compromise, as we watch our political parties give us nothing but the opposite.  I'm very disappointed in Trump's response to this crisis, and cherry picked facts/defenses won't change that.  I'm also very disappointed in the Democrats, for what it's worth.  You are correct that experts should have advised our leaders to act more quickly.  I believe quite a few did, whether they were government employees or advising from afar via the press.  Moving past that, we need more tests, ICU beds and medical supplies.  We've collectively been painfully slow to secure those things, because we've failed to act with the decisiveness that we've seen work elsewhere (China, S. Korea, Germany).  That's not a political statement.  It's a fact.  Our leaders have not used all of the powers available to them to secure those things.  That is also a fact. 

Help me with cherry picked facts.  Facts....that's your word.  Facts.  Which ones are cherry picked and what did I leave out?

The US wasn't prepared for Katrina.  We weren't necessarily prepared for 9/11.  The easiest and most elementary thing anybody can do is blame the guy in the chair.  I've posted several things above which basically say the same thing....we need unity (not compromise because compromise usually ends up in a sh*tty solution), and we do need to work as a unit rather than two separate parts.

To suggest in retrospect Trump should have acted earlier says his advisers are incompetent and he should have known more than they did.  Facts are facts.   And the ones you suggested late in your post are hardly exclusive to Trump.   The top medical guy in terms of diseases said the threat to the US was low 17 days after Trump acted.   Was Trump supposed to listen to his GP?  YOUR GP?  Some guy with a weird feeling in his belly?

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