Purdoodoo toiletmakers vs. THE Indiana Hoosiers (2/8 at 2:00 on ESPN)

[Brass Cannon]

Archie has brought in what 13 players so far counting grad transfers? Maybe more. Yet only 1 was a ball handler. I’m sorry but that’s a huge wtf you don’t have to bring in a ball handler every year if they are 4 year guys but there should be 2 or 3 on the roster at all times. 

[HoosierTrav]

On 2/8/2020 at 3:37 PM, Hovadipo said:

I’ll blame Crean for one thing. Taking Grant ******* Gelon instead of Sasha Stefanovic. 

Talk about Jekyll and Hyde from a talent evaluation standpoint. 

[RaceToTheTop]

45 minutes ago, HoosierTrav said:

Talk about Jekyll and Hyde from a talent evaluation standpoint. 

They were a year apart, so it wasn't an either/or thing.  Gelon was the typical Crean had an open scholarship (or sometimes not) so throw it out on a whim of a guy playing a couple of good games.  Lots of guys he did that with which is how we got stuck with Priller.

I saw Gelon and Stefanovic play in high school and it was clear that Gelon wasn't a D1 talent, much less a Big Ten player.

[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Archie has brought in what 13 players so far counting grad transfers? Maybe more. Yet only 1 was a ball handler. I’m sorry but that’s a huge wtf you don’t have to bring in a ball handler every year if they are 4 year guys but there should be 2 or 3 on the roster at all times. 

Seems like he has focused (and whiffed) on some high end guys and the back up plans were never put in place.  Gotta learn that you can't put all your eggs in one basket.  Keion Brooks killed his recruiting last year because he didn't have a plan B.

[Brass Cannon]

5 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

Seems like he has focused (and whiffed) on some high end guys and the back up plans were never put in place.  Gotta learn that you can't put all your eggs in one basket.  Keion Brooks killed his recruiting last year because he didn't have a plan B.

Would Brooks have even helped?  His skill set isn’t what this team is missing. I guess if he came in eager to play every night that might help but we need guards engaged and ready to play. 
 

I will once again say there’s no reason for a talented guard to come play in this junk system. Where one player is allowed to ball hog without repercussion 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Would Brooks have even helped?  His skill set isn’t what this team is missing. I guess if he came in eager to play every night that might help but we need guards engaged and ready to play. 
 
I will once again say there’s no reason for a talented guard to come play in this junk system. Where one player is allowed to ball hog without repercussion 

I mean talent is always helpful. But I don’t think Archie would know how to use him.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

I’ll say a big part of it revolves around Rob Phinisee. It started with recruiting. Garland was the dream target. Archie seemed a little undecided about Rob imo. Recruited a few other PGs. Anyway, injuries or otherwise Rob isn’t living up to what is needed as a star B1G level PG. Sadly, he’s still maybe our best guard because Durham is what he has always been even as a recruit who was an erratic shooter. Franklin is too young to judge, but clearly isn’t ready and should have probably been a redshirt at a school like Indiana or never even made the team. Green, what can I say that hasn’t been said.

 

Archie tried to get PGs and SGs above or in addition to Franklin. Strikes out over and over and we enter year with 2 open scholarships.

 

Now all our guards are what they’ve always been. We don’t have any answers and they are all scared shitless.

 

At this point I wouldn’t be shocked if Leal and Galloway deserve playing time on this team. But that’s not a good thing. They arent ready to be contributors on a good team. But our talent and confidence is so weak.

 

Same for this years team. We have a low end 5 star Freshman who is head and shoulders our best player. We won’t be a good team in that scenario. We need 2 other guys of his caliber to be what we want to be.

 

Just like college sports, it all goes back to recruiting, as it always does and that is where I’m shocked that Archie can’t get it done.

 

 

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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

I’ll say a big part of it revolves around Rob Phinisee. It started with recruiting. Garland was the dream target. Archie seemed a little undecided about Rob imo. Recruited a few other PGs. Anyway, injuries or otherwise Rob isn’t living up to what is needed as a star B1G level PG. Sadly, he’s still maybe our best guard because Durham is what he has always been even as a recruit who was an erratic shooter. Franklin is too young to judge, but clearly isn’t ready and should have probably been a redshirt at a school like Indiana or never even made the team. Green, what can I say that hasn’t been said.
 
Archie tried to get PGs and SGs above or in addition to Franklin. Strikes out over and over and we enter year with 2 open scholarships.
 
Now all our guards are what they’ve always been. We don’t have any answers and they are all scared shitless.
 
At this point I wouldn’t be shocked if Leal and Galloway deserve playing time on this team. But that’s not a good thing. They are ready to be contributors on a good team. But our talent and confidence is so weak.
 
Same for this years team. We have a low end 5 star Freshman who is head and shoulders our best player. We won’t be a good team in that scenario. We need 2 other guys of his caliber to be what we want to be.
 
Just like college sports, it all goes back to recruiting, as it always does and that is where I’m shocked that Archie can’t get it done.
 
 
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Leal will walk in as our highest ranked guard out of HS. Think about that.

But I do believe he will have a good shot at starting. Unless Franklin can get his shooting down.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

Leal will walk in as our highest ranked guard out of HS. Think about that.

But I do believe he will have a good shot at starting. Unless Franklin can get his shooting down.


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Few want to come to Indiana. Gleam from that what we want? I thought Archie could overcome the recruiting obstacles but I’ve learned and I think he learned he has to try to build and win with more middling talent.

Sean and Archie don’t excel with middling talent. Few coaches do, but definitely not the Millers.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

They were a year apart, so it wasn't an either/or thing.  Gelon was the typical Crean had an open scholarship (or sometimes not) so throw it out on a whim of a guy playing a couple of good games.  Lots of guys he did that with which is how we got stuck with Priller.
I saw Gelon and Stefanovic play in high school and it was clear that Gelon wasn't a D1 talent, much less a Big Ten player.

Hell, OF remembers me making this argument ad nauseum that Sasha was the better player. Didn’t take a genius. Well, or did it?


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[MoyeNeeded]

7 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

I’ll say a big part of it revolves around Rob Phinisee. It started with recruiting. Garland was the dream target. Archie seemed a little undecided about Rob imo. Recruited a few other PGs. Anyway, injuries or otherwise Rob isn’t living up to what is needed as a star B1G level PG. Sadly, he’s still maybe our best guard because Durham is what he has always been even as a recruit who was an erratic shooter. Franklin is too young to judge, but clearly isn’t ready and should have probably been a redshirt at a school like Indiana or never even made the team. Green, what can I say that hasn’t been said.

 

Archie tried to get PGs and SGs above or in addition to Franklin. Strikes out over and over and we enter year with 2 open scholarships.

 

Now all our guards are what they’ve always been. We don’t have any answers and they are all scared shitless.

 

At this point I wouldn’t be shocked if Leal and Galloway deserve playing time on this team. But that’s not a good thing. They arent ready to be contributors on a good team. But our talent and confidence is so weak.

 

Same for this years team. We have a low end 5 star Freshman who is head and shoulders our best player. We won’t be a good team in that scenario. We need 2 other guys of his caliber to be what we want to be.

 

Just like college sports, it all goes back to recruiting, as it always does and that is where I’m shocked that Archie can’t get it done.

 

 

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Agree about Franklin but his playing time this season far outweighs redshirting at this juncture and will be beneficial come next season. Also, there are not a whole lot of teams in the Big10 with 3 or 4 low rated 5* on their team. Yes, it would be nice but you can compete or even win in this league without them. Case in point...Crean.

[MoyeNeeded]

5 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Few want to come to Indiana. Gleam from that what we want? I thought Archie could overcome the recruiting obstacles but I’ve learned and I think he learned he has to try to build and win with more middling talent.

Sean and Archie don’t excel with middling talent. Few coaches do, but definitely not the Millers.


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Few coaches? The top 25 is full of them. Not many teams boast more than 3 or 4 5* players unless you are named UK, Duke, or Kansas.

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, MoyeNeeded said:

Agree about Franklin but his playing time this season far outweighs redshirting at this juncture and will be beneficial come next season. Also, there are not a whole lot of teams in the Big10 with 3 or 4 low rated 5* on their team. Yes, it would be nice but you can compete or even win in this league without them. Case in point...Crean.

Crean had at least Two five stars on both his Big Ten winners. One being a senior 5 star. 
 

Phinisee really is the key. If he could be what we have seen glimpses of there’s a chance next year. But really that’s too late. Recruiting will stall this year. And even if we have a decent year next year the hindered recruiting will kill any momentum. 

[MoyeNeeded]

6 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Crean had at least Two five stars on both his Big Ten winners. One being a senior 5 star. 
 

Phinisee really is the key. If he could be what we have seen glimpses of there’s a chance next year. But really that’s too late. Recruiting will stall this year. And even if we have a decent year next year the hindered recruiting will kill any momentum. 

Just can't figure Phinesee out. I understand injuries and all, but most of this latter half of the season he just doesn't look right. Was last season before his concussion just a fluke? SMH

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Agree about Franklin but his playing time this season far outweighs redshirting at this juncture and will be beneficial come next season. Also, there are not a whole lot of teams in the Big10 with 3 or 4 low rated 5* on their team. Yes, it would be nice but you can compete or even win in this league without them. Case in point...Crean.

But Crean still had to have multiple 5*’s to win Big Ten titles. Zeller was #10 in his class and Yogi was #21. Then in 2016 it was Yogi and then Bryant was #20.

What is our team comprised of now?
DeRon Davis- #40(2016)
Joey Brunk- #107(2016)
DeVonte Green- #197(2016)
Justin Smith- #78(2017)
Race Thompson- #134(2017)
Al Durham- #230(2017)
Jerome Hunter- #59(2018)
Damezi Anderson- #124(2018)
Rob Phinisee- #135(2018)
Trayce Jackson-Davis- #30(2019)
Armaan Franklin- #151(2019)

Trayce is clearly our best player. I know people really like Brunk, but if he’s considered our 2nd best player, is it really a surprise we suck? We aren’t getting any better next season. Archie just continues to strike out.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Just can't figure Phinesee out. I understand injuries and all, but most of this latter half of the season he just doesn't look right. Was last season before his concussion just a fluke? SMH

He’s just playing to his true talent. There’s a reason he was ranked where he was. That and the system doesn’t help him any.


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[Bobman1]

Few coaches? The top 25 is full of them. Not many teams boast more than 3 or 4 5* players unless you are named UK, Duke, or Kansas.

Doesn’t have to be 5 stars. Top 100 players generally pan out and teams can win with a bunch of em. We have: DeRon, a player who has suffered serious injuries and isn’t quite the player people hoped for, Justin, inconsistent player and hasn’t improved very much since he has been here, Jerome who is coming off a serious injury and still technically a freshman, and Trayce who is a solid player and would start for nearly all other Big Ten programs.

There just isn’t any talent on this team and Archie’s not a good enough coach to win consistently without talent.


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[Bobman1]

Doesn’t have to be 5 stars. Top 100 players generally pan out and teams can win with a bunch of em. We have: DeRon, a player who has suffered serious injuries and isn’t quite the player people hoped for, Justin, inconsistent player and hasn’t improved very much since he has been here, Jerome who is coming off a serious injury and still technically a freshman, and Trayce who is a solid player and would start for nearly all other Big Ten programs.

On the contrary: Michigan next year will have a senior Livers, sophomore Franz Wagner, upperclassmen and experienced guards Brooks and DeJulius, junior Brandon Johns (#70 as a recruit), and highly touted freshmen five stars Zay Todd, Josh Christopher (probably), and 7’2” 4 star Hunter Dickinson. That’s just Michigan too. Will be ugly next year.

There just isn’t any talent on this team and Archie’s not a good enough coach to win consistently without talent.


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[Uspshoosier]

Hell, OF remembers me making this argument ad nauseum that Sasha was the better player. Didn’t take a genius. Well, or did it?

 

 

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I’ll never forget going and watching Gelon play at the tip-off classic after he signed and him scoring 0 FG while some other kid scored 20 and the team ran a play for him for the last shot Lol. Kid turned out to be a junior named Sasha.

Sasha would of been hard to get out of Purdue country I think

 

 

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[Josh]

8 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

 

Same for this years team. We have a low end 5 star Freshman who is head and shoulders our best player. We won’t be a good team in that scenario. We need 2 other guys of his caliber to be what we want to be.

 

Just like college sports, it all goes back to recruiting, as it always does and that is where I’m shocked that Archie can’t get it done.

It's much more than just recruiting.  It's coaching.  Yes our talent isn't where it needs to be, but it's good enough to win games we've lost.

San Diego St, Dayton, Seton Hall, Butler, Creighton....they don't have more talent than us, but they're much better teams than us.  It all comes back to coaching imo.  Archie ain't good enough.  In fact, he's pretty terrible at it.