Do we have any good guards?

[Aeggie]

I think our problems are all rooted in how badly our guards are playing. They can't shoot so defenses can collapse in the paint without penalty. They also struggle to enter the ball into the post which rewards defenses for collapsing in the paint because that forces our bad shooters to shoot the ball. Al and Armaan in particular, and Devonte and Rob at times, get beat off the dribble at the point of attack often and constantly get our defense into rotation which leads to breakdowns and open shots. Our guards don't beat defenses down the floor, they don't finish well in the paint, they're not creating much for teammates, they're telegraphing their passes and allowing the defense to anticipate and intercept them, they're turning the ball over by throwing it to the opponent and into the stands... what do these guys do well?

Devonte Green is our only guard that's a scoring threat and he's not a consistent performer. Al Durham is not a consistent performer. Rob Phinisee is not a consistent performer right now. Armaan Franklin, understandably, is not a consistent performer quite yet.

I'm not sure how this team can fix this without any reliable guards. Without any perimeter scoring, why would defenses do anything other than pack the paint?

Further, does this get better next year? Is the Phinisee we saw last year or the Phinisee we're seeing this year more what we should expect going forward? Have we seen any guards take big steps forward under Archie so far?

[Alford Bailey]

Recruit rankings are pretty accurate at the end of the day.

[pumpfake]

10 hours ago, Aeggie said:

I think our problems are all rooted in how badly our guards are playing. They can't shoot so defenses can collapse in the paint without penalty. They also struggle to enter the ball into the post which rewards defenses for collapsing in the paint because that forces our bad shooters to shoot the ball. Al and Armaan in particular, and Devonte and Rob at times, get beat off the dribble at the point of attack often and constantly get our defense into rotation which leads to breakdowns and open shots. Our guards don't beat defenses down the floor, they don't finish well in the paint, they're not creating much for teammates, they're telegraphing their passes and allowing the defense to anticipate and intercept them, they're turning the ball over by throwing it to the opponent and into the stands... what do these guys do well?

Devonte Green is our only guard that's a scoring threat and he's not a consistent performer. Al Durham is not a consistent performer. Rob Phinisee is not a consistent performer right now. Armaan Franklin, understandably, is not a consistent performer quite yet.

I'm not sure how this team can fix this without any reliable guards. Without any perimeter scoring, why would defenses do anything other than pack the paint?

Further, does this get better next year? Is the Phinisee we saw last year or the Phinisee we're seeing this year more what we should expect going forward? Have we seen any guards take big steps forward under Archie so far?

Pretty comprehensive assessment of our predicament, IMO. 

We've yet to see a player make a big improvement from one season to the next, especially in the area of shooting accuracy.  I'm not at all content to rely on player development alone to cure our play.  I also don't see "addition by subtraction" as being enough to make a massive improvement.

We have a nice 2020 class coming in, but unspectacular.  It's hard to envision them all being immediate contributors.

Our track record with transfers had been dismal under CAM, until Brunk.  Right now it looks like the only near-term avenue for improved guard play (shooting).

Fingers crossed, but each week it gets harder to remain optimistic.

[BottomLine]

Best 3-point shooter is anchored to the bench.  Not saying he is an answer but there are times that you need to bring someone in off the bench for a couple of minutes that can shoot the 3 and open up the offense a bit.  Cooper Bybee JUCO numbers have him 54-129 from 3 for a 41.9%.  He shot 93.8% from the free throw line and has a 1.8 assist to turnover ratio.  Miller brought in a shooting specialist and is afraid to use him.

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

Timely that BottomLine brought up Cooper Bybee's name.  Really encourage everyone to read Kent Sterling's tongue-in-cheek Archie Miller - Bob Knight conversation.  Sterling really hits the nail on the head and Bybee's name is brought up by Knight in their fictional conversation.

http://kentsterling.com/2020/01/06/if-archie-miller-needs-advice-bob-knight-lives-three-miles-away-heres-their-conversation-iubb/

[Stuhoo]

12 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Timely that BottomLine brought up Cooper Bybee's name.  Really encourage everyone to read Kent Sterling's tongue-in-cheek Archie Miller - Bob Knight conversation.  Sterling really hits the nail on the head and Bybee's name is brought up by Knight in their fictional conversation.

http://kentsterling.com/2020/01/06/if-archie-miller-needs-advice-bob-knight-lives-three-miles-away-heres-their-conversation-iubb/

 

"Put that Bieber kid in." lol

That's a strong article by Sterling.

 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

It seems like other coaches will go with a kid who is deep in the rotation at times. Archie played McRoberts who have us nothing all last season but this year won’t go that deep. Sometimes you just throw a kid in there instead of Green or Durham and send them a message.


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[BottomLine]

14 hours ago, Aeggie said:

I think our problems are all rooted in how badly our guards are playing. They can't shoot so defenses can collapse in the paint without penalty. They also struggle to enter the ball into the post which rewards defenses for collapsing in the paint because that forces our bad shooters to shoot the ball. Al and Armaan in particular, and Devonte and Rob at times, get beat off the dribble at the point of attack often and constantly get our defense into rotation which leads to breakdowns and open shots. Our guards don't beat defenses down the floor, they don't finish well in the paint, they're not creating much for teammates, they're telegraphing their passes and allowing the defense to anticipate and intercept them, they're turning the ball over by throwing it to the opponent and into the stands... what do these guys do well?

Devonte Green is our only guard that's a scoring threat and he's not a consistent performer. Al Durham is not a consistent performer. Rob Phinisee is not a consistent performer right now. Armaan Franklin, understandably, is not a consistent performer quite yet.

I'm not sure how this team can fix this without any reliable guards. Without any perimeter scoring, why would defenses do anything other than pack the paint?

Further, does this get better next year? Is the Phinisee we saw last year or the Phinisee we're seeing this year more what we should expect going forward? Have we seen any guards take big steps forward under Archie so far?

3 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Timely that BottomLine brought up Cooper Bybee's name.  Really encourage everyone to read Kent Sterling's tongue-in-cheek Archie Miller - Bob Knight conversation.  Sterling really hits the nail on the head and Bybee's name is brought up by Knight in their fictional conversation.

http://kentsterling.com/2020/01/06/if-archie-miller-needs-advice-bob-knight-lives-three-miles-away-heres-their-conversation-iubb/

Sometimes things are just too obvious.

 

[Golfman25]

3 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Timely that BottomLine brought up Cooper Bybee's name.  Really encourage everyone to read Kent Sterling's tongue-in-cheek Archie Miller - Bob Knight conversation.  Sterling really hits the nail on the head and Bybee's name is brought up by Knight in their fictional conversation.

http://kentsterling.com/2020/01/06/if-archie-miller-needs-advice-bob-knight-lives-three-miles-away-heres-their-conversation-iubb/

OMG.  That is dead nuts on.  Thing is, those of us around in Knights time saw guys like Bieber play when the others wouldn't.  

[BottomLine]

On the contrary I don't think our guards are that bad.  Our offense is bad and our player selection is bad.  The problem isn't that we have no guards.  The problem is that we don't has a 3.  When you play them together Brunk and Jackson-Davis clog up the middle and take away any chance to drive by our guards.  The odd man out here is Smith.  I like many of the things that he does but he isn't a shooter or a good ball handler but he is our 3 by default.  Brunk and Jackson-Davis aren't going to go outside and shoot the ball.  Smith can't shoot consistently from the outside.  He doesn't drive well and there isn't any room for him inside.  In short he is a duck out of water.  The natural person to play the position should have been Jerome Hunter but he hasn't gotten his act back together.  Anderson is also more of a 3 than anything.  He certainly isn't a guard.  Do you think that you would trust him to hang outside and shoot the 3 when the ball is kicked back outside?  Me neither.  With the current squad Durham is the guy that should be playing the 3.  He is much much better shooting the spot up 3 than shooting off the dribble.  However, with Phinisee still doing who knows what, Al has been forced to play the point, when Green will allow him to have the ball.  That gives us another player playing out of position in Durham, and if you put the ball into Green's hands at the point then you have three players playing out of position.  No wonder this offense is a mess.  Archie keeps putting his players in positions where they can fail.  When the defense clogs up the middle and keeps the ball out of the hands of the big guys and we don't have a wing that can shoot or drive, what option does that give our guards?  Dribble around and chuck up a 3, right?  Or, perhaps just turn the ball over so the other team can have a run-out.  Does anyone think that the coaching staffs at the other Big 10 schools can't see this?  Personally I like the idea of two bigs, but we don't have the personnel to play the other three positions.  If I were sitting in Archie's spot on the bench I'd move Smith back inside and rotate Brunk, Jackson-Davis, Smith and Thompson with Jackson-Davis getting the biggest chunk of minutes.  I'd play Durham and Franklin at the 3 and give some time to Anderson and Hunter and hope that one of the other develops.   Our guards might look a lot better if they had someone to pass the ball to.

[Golfman25]

4 hours ago, BottomLine said:

Best 3-point shooter is anchored to the bench.  Not saying he is an answer but there are times that you need to bring someone in off the bench for a couple of minutes that can shoot the 3 and open up the offense a bit.  Cooper Bybee JUCO numbers have him 54-129 from 3 for a 41.9%.  He shot 93.8% from the free throw line and has a 1.8 assist to turnover ratio.  Miller brought in a shooting specialist and is afraid to use him.

That pisses me off.  Those kids are invaluable.  They sit there until down by 12.  Then put them in to hit 2 or 3 shots and keep the game within reach.  Otherwise your down by 20 and have no chance.  

[Alford Bailey]

At this point why not try Bybee. Can’t hurt.

[Hovadipo]

Grad transfer Dylan Powell is pretty solid, and Coy Cronk will likely move to guard if he comes back. 
 

So, the answer to this thread’s question is yes, imo. 

[Alford Bailey]

McBob played a bunch and was a total liability on offense. Maybe the opposite with Bybee?

[coonhounds]

Never thought this season would turn into this but put bybee in baby seems to be where its going

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[VO5]

Bybee seeing the court would get archie fired much faster and I don’t think he wants that to happen. Our guys right now have a hard enough time on offense to get open and they’re much quicker/faster. In watching the little time during the early season blowouts, Bybee is extremely slow. Who would he guard? How would he get open in our offense? Other teams would isolate him and score all day or make our defensive rotations extremely slow, and they’re already not great. I see zero value in essentially handicapping our team further to potentially struggle to get a walk on shots. I hope these posts pining for him are TIC..

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Bybee seeing the court would get archie fired much faster and I don’t think he wants that to happen. Our guys right now have a hard enough time on offense to get open and they’re much quicker/faster. In watching the little time during the early season blowouts, Bybee is extremely slow. Who would he guard? How would he get open in our offense? Other teams would isolate him and score all day or make our defensive rotations extremely slow, and they’re already not great. I see zero value in essentially handicapping our team further to potentially struggle to get a walk on shots. I hope these posts pining for him are TIC..

Losing will get him fired even quicker.


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[Golfman25]

1 hour ago, VO5 said:

Bybee seeing the court would get archie fired much faster and I don’t think he wants that to happen. Our guys right now have a hard enough time on offense to get open and they’re much quicker/faster. In watching the little time during the early season blowouts, Bybee is extremely slow. Who would he guard? How would he get open in our offense? Other teams would isolate him and score all day or make our defensive rotations extremely slow, and they’re already not great. I see zero value in essentially handicapping our team further to potentially struggle to get a walk on shots. I hope these posts pining for him are TIC..

Not talking about starting the kid and playing him for 30 mins.  If your're down by 15, put him in to take a few shots.   If he can't hit a couple of 3s, we at least keep the game close.  If he doesn't, we are still getting blown out of the gym.  It's zero risk and high reward. 

[RaceToTheTop]

Might as well put in Gelon.

[HoosierTrav]

May get killed for this but....... Al Durham has no business playing at Indiana. He’s serviceable when we are playing at home against a team in the 200’s of the KenPom ratings but once he hits mid to high major competition, he is an absolute liability about 99% of the time. Love his attitude and his love for Indiana but he’s simply not good enough. Each time I watch him play, I try extremely hard to find reasons why he should be on the court and I cannot find one.