Fred Glass Retiring

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

I really disagree that "it's looking bad."  I think that's way too dramatic and way too short sighted.   How exactly does Archie sit in the 3rd position?   Results?  Both Mack and Holtmann walked into more experienced and better balanced teams, and neither completely changed the system like Miller did.   Crean's teams couldn't guard.   Miller's system is largely based on defense.
Based on what is it "quite possible" Hoiberg is better???   What?  Are you really ready to jump off a building enough to worry about Nebraska?   The sky falling?   Hoiberg wasn't ever a candidate for IU.  Where are you getting your information?
Why are you assuming the worst and also that every shiny thing is better than what we have?   There is no evidence to that at all.   Glass has made perhaps ONE poor hiring decision, and I just laid out for you a reason why he made it.   You make it sound as though he has been a comedy of errors and that's just not accurate.   His hiring of Archie Miller can't come close to being evaluated yet, and objectively, I would say things there are FAR better than the picture you paint.  He's hired baseball, women's basketball, and other coaches who have developed programs at IU and/or improved them.  What "hiring decisions" do you disagree with....stepping back from the ledge and looking logically?  Other than Allen, and I think even someone as biased as you are can see the reason in it.
How exactly....seriously...is anything "looking bad???"   I couldn't disagree more unless you think Rome can be  built in a day and everything on which you're judging is based on results from basically year one of even a single of his recruits playing a minute at Indiana.   Did Phinsee's injury matter?  Did Morgan's?  Did Romeo's?   Good grief.....at least let it play out before you judge.
At the end of the day, I don't have any patience for fabricated or imagined negativity.    If it plays out that Allen and Archie need to go, they will.   As much as you're upset with Glass, you have to acknowledge he's let coaches go when it's been time to do so.  And Archie was largely applauded when he was hired.  Amazing to me how many turn on him, despite the realities of his teams.

Mack did walk into a shiz show left by Pitino. A program that was ready to crumble. UofL is now considered a Top 5 team going into his 2nd season. That’s pretty good for a new hire. Ohio State is considered a Top 15 in his 3rd season and it’s mainly with his guys as he’s recruited pretty well. This is a big year for Archie whether people like that or not. They can say Smith and Durham aren’t his recruits, but they’ve only been coached by Archie. So Archie should get plenty of blame for their shortcomings. Green is about to play his 3rd year under Archie. He’s basically an Archie guy now. We should see the improvement from those 3.


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[RatpigHoosier]

We hope to be eating crow by 2021, as of now that doesn’t look to be the case as we are projected to miss the tourney this coming season and possibly the season after depending on departures.

 

 

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Well, I was projected to win the powerball jackpot this week and it didn’t happen. Why on earth would anyone base their opinions on preseason projections?

 

 

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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Well, I was projected to win the powerball jackpot this week and it didn’t happen. Why on earth would anyone base their opinions on preseason projections?
 
 
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Because they do mean something. Sure they can be proven wrong but people get pretty close. Hopefully Indiana is a surprise. TJD isn’t Cody Zeller but maybe he’s exactly what we needed.


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[Uspshoosier]

Again this is something board members would be easily capable of evaluating Archie If we all had inside knowledge of the inner workings of the program. Since we don’t, only time will tell who’s the best hire of the 3. At this point in time, our current coach sits in third position. It’s also quite possible that Hoidberg, who also was a candidate at the time of Archie’s hire is above Archie as well. Judging the hire based on Glass’ prior hiring decisions (including extensions) we will likely end up with the worst coach of the bunch. Again I could be totally wrong and we could be ranked next year and make the tourney, but as of today, it’s looking bad. I do think we’ll be better than the last three years, but we just as easily could show no improvement YOY.


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At this point there really isn’t much difference between being in 1st position and 3rd position at this point with those 3 coaches. None have set the world on fire yet that would separate themselves from each other. It’s still way early in their respective times at their college so a lot can change. If Archie is in 3rd position the bar set by the 2 others ahead of him would be the round of 32. I think all 3 coaches are really good coaches but this thought that the other 2 have separated themselves is interesting. Holtmann has made the sweet 16 once (beat a 12 and 13 seed to get there). Last year all people remember is that they made the ncaa tournament and nothing else matters. They had a stretch where they lost 6 of 7 and they ended the year losing 8 of 12. They also had 0 wins against the top 5 B1G teams and only beat 3 tournament quality teams. What sticks out for many I’m sure is the head to head. IU had a real good chance in 2 of those matchups and ran into IU killer CJ Jackson. Not sure which one will end up better but as of now none have won a conference title, conference tournament title or coached in a sweet 16 game with their current teams.


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[southernindianahoosier2]

1 hour ago, Old Friend said:

I really disagree that "it's looking bad."  I think that's way too dramatic and way too short sighted.   How exactly does Archie sit in the 3rd position?   Results?  Both Mack and Holtmann walked into more experienced and better balanced teams, and neither completely changed the system like Miller did.   Crean's teams couldn't guard.   Miller's system is largely based on defense.

Based on what is it "quite possible" Hoiberg is better???   What?  Are you really ready to jump off a building enough to worry about Nebraska?   The sky falling?   Hoiberg wasn't ever a candidate for IU.  Where are you getting your information?

Why are you assuming the worst and also that every shiny thing is better than what we have?   There is no evidence to that at all.   Glass has made perhaps ONE poor hiring decision, and I just laid out for you a reason why he made it.   You make it sound as though he has been a comedy of errors and that's just not accurate.   His hiring of Archie Miller can't come close to being evaluated yet, and objectively, I would say things there are FAR better than the picture you paint.  He's hired baseball, women's basketball, and other coaches who have developed programs at IU and/or improved them.  What "hiring decisions" do you disagree with....stepping back from the ledge and looking logically?  Other than Allen, and I think even someone as biased as you are can see the reason in it.

How exactly....seriously...is anything "looking bad???"   I couldn't disagree more unless you think Rome can be  built in a day and everything on which you're judging is based on results from basically year one of even a single of his recruits playing a minute at Indiana.   Did Phinsee's injury matter?  Did Morgan's?  Did Romeo's?   Good grief.....at least let it play out before you judge.

At the end of the day, I don't have any patience for fabricated or imagined negativity.    If it plays out that Allen and Archie need to go, they will.   As much as you're upset with Glass, you have to acknowledge he's let coaches go when it's been time to do so.  And Archie was largely applauded when he was hired.  Amazing to me how many turn on him, despite the realities of his teams.

I'm saying in the pool of candidates IU considered, Fred Hoidberg, although probably very far down the list had to have been considered. He was considered as a replacement on multiple boards, including ITH. Was it realistic? no, but his time in Chicago was clearly coming to a close around the same time IU needed a new coach. He along with a plethora of other candidates including Mick Cronin were definitely in the candidate pool in the begining. Again i'm assuming a top down approach of every coach IU could get at the time of Archie's hire. Apparently Billy Donavan was also in the candidate pool. As the pool and search became smaller and smaller, those guys clearly didn't make the cut. So what i'm saying is if Mick Cronin, Fred Hoidberg, Chris Mack, and Chris Holtmann all end up in better positions after lets say 5 years, then ya, Fred Glass made an absolutely terrible hire. 

 

We lost our 2 best players from last year and have not recruited any shooters.And its highly likely that we lost Keon Brooks because of last years performance.  I have concerns at this point, but i'm not writing off the season or Archie as a coach. What I'm saying is Archie is outside the treehouse of trust for me, and he needs to start winning tournament games this year and next for me to regain his trust.  

As far as bad hires. I consider Creans extension before the 2012-2013 season a terrible decision that should have been made at the end of the year. I said it at the time when I was a student even surrounded by all the hype and energy. The second poor decision would be to retain Crean anytime after 2015. the third was the Allen hire. 

[Uspshoosier]

Holtmann is 4-0 against Archie head-to-head, made two NCAA tournaments to Archie’s zero, and won two NCAA tournament games.

I know the numbers I’m just not concerned with them before these coaches have coached in their 3rd years yet. I’ve also seen that he hasn’t made it past the second yet. Plenty of time for both to get their respective teams past the second round in their current coaching jobs

 

 

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[RatpigHoosier]

So if we face OSU three times this year and win one, is CAM still a dismal failure and a terrible hire comparatively because he is still sub-.500 against Holtmann? At what point does the scale tip in favor of CAM? Can it ever tip in his favor in some posters’ minds because they are just dead set convinced he’s a hoops doofus and can never overcome that stigma? I normally don’t get too invested in these arguments but the negativity is getting to me tonight....and I can’t drink.....because I’m working.....adulting sucks.


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[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, RatpigHoosier said:

So if we face OSU three times this year and win one, is CAM still a dismal failure and a terrible hire comparatively because he is still sub-.500 against Holtmann? At what point does the scale tip in favor of CAM? Can it ever tip in his favor in some posters’ minds because they are just dead set convinced he’s a hoops doofus and can never overcome that stigma? I normally don’t get too invested in these arguments but the negativity is getting to me tonight....and I can’t drink.....because I’m working.....adulting sucks.


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You think winning one of three should be proof of being a better coach?

[Uspshoosier]

You think winning one of three should be proof of being a better coach?

Nope just like being 4-0 in 2 years isn’t proof on who’s a better coach


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[Old Friend]

32 minutes ago, southernindianahoosier2 said:

I'm saying in the pool of candidates IU considered, Fred Hoidberg, although probably very far down the list had to have been considered. He was considered as a replacement on multiple boards, including ITH. Was it realistic? no, but his time in Chicago was clearly coming to a close around the same time IU needed a new coach. He along with a plethora of other candidates including Mick Cronin were definitely in the candidate pool in the begining. Again i'm assuming a top down approach of every coach IU could get at the time of Archie's hire. Apparently Billy Donavan was also in the candidate pool. As the pool and search became smaller and smaller, those guys clearly didn't make the cut. So what i'm saying is if Mick Cronin, Fred Hoidberg, Chris Mack, and Chris Holtmann all end up in better positions after lets say 5 years, then ya, Fred Glass made an absolutely terrible hire. 

 

We lost our 2 best players from last year and have not recruited any shooters.And its highly likely that we lost Keon Brooks because of last years performance.  I have concerns at this point, but i'm not writing off the season or Archie as a coach. What I'm saying is Archie is outside the treehouse of trust for me, and he needs to start winning tournament games this year and next for me to regain his trust.  

As far as bad hires. I consider Creans extension before the 2012-2013 season a terrible decision that should have been made at the end of the year. I said it at the time when I was a student even surrounded by all the hype and energy. The second poor decision would be to retain Crean anytime after 2015. the third was the Allen hire. 

I think Archie was a good hire and will be just fine.    Find me in 3 years.  One of us will be wrong.

Franklin can shoot just fine.  So can Hunter....who was recruited last year.    Again, I'm not into fabricated negativity.    Saying he didn't recruit shooters isn't accurate and we have 2 coming next season.

 

[Brass Cannon]

10 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Nope just like being 4-0 in 2 years isn’t proof on who’s a better coach


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While certainly true. It also certainly not a good sign 

[RatpigHoosier]

You think winning one of three should be proof of being a better coach?

I mistyped that. I meant if CAM wins 2/3. My bad.

 

 

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[Uspshoosier]

While certainly true. It also certainly not a good sign 

Izzo was 1-11 against Coach K before he beat him last year to go to the final 4. Izzo is doing just fine with that 2-11 record. I don’t get bent out of shape about head to head record between coaches. 2 of the games against Ohio St were toss up games that could of gone either way. Archie drew up a good play for Morgan to take the lead in the 2OT game. Holtmann just coached better when CJ Jackson tossed in a 30 footer


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[Brass Cannon]

4 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Izzo was 1-11 against Coach K before he beat him last year to go to the final 4. Izzo is doing just fine with that 2-11 record. I don’t get bent out of shape about head to head record between coaches. 2 of the games against Ohio St were toss up games that could of gone either way. Archie drew up a good play for Morgan to take the lead in the 2OT game. Holtmann just coached better when CJ Jackson tossed in a 30 footer


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Kind of a bad example there though because K is probably a better coach and better human being. 

[Uspshoosier]

Kind of a bad example there though because K is probably a better coach and better human being. 

Mike Brey had a stretch where he was 5-1 against coach K a couple years ago meaning coach K was 1-5 against Brey


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[Brass Cannon]

12 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Mike Brey had a stretch where he was 5-1 against coach K a couple years ago meaning coach K was 1-5 against Brey


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What’s their record now?

[Uspshoosier]

What’s their record now?

I’m guessing coach K has the advantage


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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

What’s their record now?

That's his point. Using a 2 or 3yr period is too small a sample size.

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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

Fred likely saved himself another 5 years by putting names back on football uniforms. That may have been his dumbest decision.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

This thread..... can’t wait until we have bad losses to complain about..... oh wait......

Let’s just have a season we outperform expectations and play well for a damn change.


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