Penix and Ramsey, a perspective

[Chris007]

Here is the difference that was shown to me in practice. Pass play from the hash marks to the far sideline. Ramsey made the pass 3 times, once was an INT,  the other two were incomplete. Penix on the first throw with a flick of the wrist has the ball there for the receiver to catch and get a foot down before going out of bounds. Its throws like this thas Penix can make that Peyton just can't. If Penix is out for the rest of the season, we will have a good gameplan with Ramsey and still put up plenty of points. 

[KzooHoosier82]

7 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

Defensively they are giving up a grand total  of two more plays per game than we as are.  I see the forest just fine.....you were the one trying to compare Ohio St and Michigan State’s defenses.

How many times do I have to articulate that MSU’s defense isn’t the same as OSU, rather it’s just the second best we’ve seen all season and the only comparable we have? Because I’ve literally made that caveat three times now. But continue with your asinine theory that because IU’s defensive stats per game are currently in line with MSUs then come see me in December after their stretch against the conferences worst teams plus arch rival Michigan. Never mind the talent disparity in pre the conference scheduling. 

Back to Penix the only point I was making is that he can make the sideline and downfield throws against athletic defenses that Ramsey can’t due to arm strength. So while there are teams Ramsey can beat there are others he cannot. Penix doesn’t put our team in that position.  End of point. 

[Walking Boot of Doom]

16 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Here is the difference that was shown to me in practice. Pass play from the hash marks to the far sideline. Ramsey made the pass 3 times, once was an INT,  the other two were incomplete. Penix on the first throw with a flick of the wrist has the ball there for the receiver to catch and get a foot down before going out of bounds. Its throws like this thas Penix can make that Peyton just can't. If Penix is out for the rest of the season, we will have a good gameplan with Ramsey and still put up plenty of points. 

I'm the last guy to be holding up an argument for "the eye test", but this is just simple fact. There are passes that Penix can make and Ramsey cannot. There really isn't anything (besides staying healthy at this point) Ramsey can do that Penix cannot do (and in many cases do better).

[Brass Cannon]

17 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Here is the difference that was shown to me in practice. Pass play from the hash marks to the far sideline. Ramsey made the pass 3 times, once was an INT,  the other two were incomplete. Penix on the first throw with a flick of the wrist has the ball there for the receiver to catch and get a foot down before going out of bounds. Its throws like this thas Penix can make that Peyton just can't. If Penix is out for the rest of the season, we will have a good gameplan with Ramsey and still put up plenty of points. 

This kinda strikes as the the reverse Fitzner argument he kept getting PT based on his practice. 
 

Maybe Penix was more accurate with fewer interceptions in practice. But have the actual games borne that out? Ramsey is more accurate with fewer interceptions.  Playing generally tougher opposition  

And also at this point in the season you can’t discount experience.  Penix has played in one meaningful 4th quarter that had the highest of highs and lowest of lows 

I think the play calling with Penix last game was much more Conducive to team success. There seemed to be more of an effort to spare the defense. If that continued he’d probably be my pick. But we need continuity and experience. 
 

And frankly I wouldn’t blame Ramsey for leaving after this year. If he’s got no chance to win the starting job. Then he should look elsewhere.  If my company told me I had no chance to ever move up. I would leave and nobody would blame me. 

[JSHoosier]

20 hours ago, KzooHoosier82 said:

MSU’s record is way more to do with their inability to sustain drives and score points. They have one of the best defenses in the country. I’m not arguing Ramsey hasn’t played really well this year but his ceiling is Penix’s floor, which should be obvious to anyone watching the two this year. 

The bolded is just false.  Penix is injury prone, Ramsey isn't; so Penix's floor is fans wondering 'what if' as another player with potential is buried.

[Brass Cannon]

To say one guys ceiling is another guys floor is extremely bold when their stats are almost even. 
 

In this situation that would mean that Penix is playing at his floor. Which is why people are accusing Penix supporters of overrating him. 

[Alford Bailey]

Ant updates on the Penix injury?

[KzooHoosier82]

13 minutes ago, JSHoosier said:

The bolded is just false.  Penix is injury prone, Ramsey isn't; so Penix's floor is fans wondering 'what if' as another player with potential is buried.

Penix is a freshmen playing better than Ramsey as a Junior (who’s playing his best football of his career) so my point was: Penix, from a talent perspective, is starting off his college career playing better than Ramsey at presumably the top of his potential. Freshmen QBs who are asked to run the ball are going to get injured. Ramsey also got hurt his freshmen year. But being injury prone was not nor should have been considered in my analysis of their talent

[Brass Cannon]

Just now, KzooHoosier82 said:

Penix is a freshmen playing better than Ramsey as a Junior (who’s playing his best football of his career) so my point was: Penix, from a talent perspective, is starting off his college career playing better than Ramsey at presumably the top of his potential. Freshmen QBs who are asked to run the ball are going to get injured. Ramsey also got hurt his freshmen year. But being injury prone was not nor should have been considered in my analysis of their talent

Outplaying him in some respects. 
 

Not completion percentage or TD/INT. Those are important stats to judge a QB based on. 

[Alford Bailey]

Lets hope Ramsey doesnt decide to transfer. Id hate to have to count on Penix.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

Why would Ramsey transfer? Where is he going to go be a starter if he isn’t the starter at Indiana? Doesn’t seem like a guy who will enjoy losing nor does he seem destined for the NFL. I bet he’s quite happy with the situation at Indiana.


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[Brass Cannon]

Just now, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Why would Ramsey transfer? Where is he going to go be a starter if he isn’t the starter at Indiana? Doesn’t seem like a guy who will enjoy losing nor does he seem destined for the NFL. I bet he’s quite happy with the situation at Indiana.


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Wow with fans so disrespectful about his abilities I bet he’s ecstatic to ride the pint and get insulted. He’s delivered us our best season in 26 years but he sucks and wouldn’t start anywhere.  
 

 If he’s got any competitive fire he’s not happy about not being the starter. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

Both sides are right. Penix has the better physical attributes, so he has more potential. He has a higher ceiling. But, their statistics are virtually identical, so despite the physical differences there haven't really been any differences in their outputs. Penix passes the eye test, he looks "better" putting up his numbers, but his numbers are only a hair better than Ramsey's. 

And I don't think there is any doubt that Penix is injury prone. In 9 games this year he has been knocked out of 3 games and missed 3 others completely. We're 3/4 through the season and he's completed only 1/3 of the games despite being the starter.

As for Michigan State, they are 4-4 this season. They have wins against IU, Tulsa, Western Michigan, and Northwestern. They put up little resistance against Penn State, Ohio State, and Wisconsin. They aren't very good. They're a whole lot closer to us than they are Ohio State. Comparing Ramsey's performance against Ohio State to Penix's performance against Michigan State is like comparing apples to oranges. There are miles separating those two teams.

[rcbowla]

Reading posts on this argument is like watching a sack of horse crap being burned. You know you shouldn't and you definitely know you'll regret it but you still look anyhow.

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[JSHoosier]

55 minutes ago, KzooHoosier82 said:

Penix is a freshmen playing better than Ramsey as a Junior (who’s playing his best football of his career) so my point was: Penix, from a talent perspective, is starting off his college career playing better than Ramsey at presumably the top of his potential. Freshmen QBs who are asked to run the ball are going to get injured. Ramsey also got hurt his freshmen year. But being injury prone was not nor should have been considered in my analysis of their talent

The stats are nearly the same, so only outplaying Ramsey in some ways.  Availability is a pretty important ability and absolutely has an effect on Penix's floor.

He's a redshirt freshman, redshirted because he got injured like multiple times this year.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

Wow with fans so disrespectful about his abilities I bet he’s ecstatic to ride the pint and get insulted. He’s delivered us our best season in 26 years but he sucks and wouldn’t start anywhere.  
 
 If he’s got any competitive fire he’s not happy about not being the starter. 

Give an example as to where you think he’d be a starter. Your post is complete incendiary trash without any substance.

There’s zero disrespect in there - just reality. He lost the starter job at Indiana. So if he wanted to transfer to be a starter, where are you suggesting he would go? Evidence would indicate that he may not be able to start anywhere better than a low-tier P5 school.


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[Brass Cannon]

3 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Give an example as to where you think he’d be a starter. Your post is complete incendiary trash without any substance.

There’s zero disrespect in there - just reality. He lost the starter job at Indiana. So if he wanted to transfer to be a starter, where are you suggesting he would go? Evidence would indicate that he may not be able to start anywhere better than a low-tier P5 school.


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Maybe one of those schools worse than Indiana?  Your talking like IU is still a bottom feeder. 
 

I don’t like QBR but he’s got the 24th in the country. I’m sure somebody would take him to replace a senior while their redshirt QB holds a clipboard. 

[Chris007]

34 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Wow with fans so disrespectful about his abilities I bet he’s ecstatic to ride the pint and get insulted. He’s delivered us our best season in 26 years but he sucks and wouldn’t start anywhere.  
 

 If he’s got any competitive fire he’s not happy about not being the starter. 

No I hope he does transfer. I think he could take a mac school to a bowl next year. Also, I think there is a chance he gets passed up by Tuttle for 2nd in the depth chart this summer when Tuttle fully understands the play book. 

[Brass Cannon]

Just now, Chris007 said:

No I hope he does transfer. I think he could take a mac school to a bowl next year. Also, I think there is a chance he gets passed up by Tuttle for 2nd in the depth chart this summer when Tuttle fully understands the play book. 

If so Allen better hope that Tuttle can handle it. If Ramsey takes a team to a bowl next year and we have a down year because of QB play that’s all on him. 

[Chris007]

3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

If so Allen better hope that Tuttle can handle it. If Ramsey takes a team to a bowl next year and we have a down year because of QB play that’s all on him. 

What if Allen is at FSU?