Fire or ‘Way to Go!’ Tom Allen?

[ThompsonHoosier 3,414]

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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,623]

 
Are you this consistently negative and depression-inducing when you're not on a message board?
Asking for a friend ;)
 

I’ve been pretty positive about the offense and Penix.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,623]

 
Are you this consistently negative and depression-inducing when you're not on a message board?
Asking for a friend ;)
 

But I do believe good staff around Allen would be best. Apparently defense can’t be played at Indiana, but this DC’s schemes are just as awful as Indiana has had. The special teams is still crap and has been for years. Not sure how we can always find a good kicker but always have bad punters or punt teams. Both lines have been very weak under Allen. Gotta pay some money to the coordinators and you will likely get better results.


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[Alford Bailey 12,356]

3 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

But I do believe good staff around Allen would be best. Apparently defense can’t be played at Indiana, but this DC’s schemes are just as awful as Indiana has had. The special teams is still crap and has been for years. Not sure how we can always find a good kicker but always have bad punters or punt teams. Both lines have been very weak under Allen. Gotta pay some money to the coordinators and you will likely get better results.


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Defense wasnt gonna be a problem any more under Allen......

[Hoosierfan2017 20,931]

7 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Moving forward by starting a fire the coach thread. Unreal haha...

I’ll wait for BC’s admission that Penix is by far and away the better QB and then we can move on.

And yes, I will drive this into the ground and have no limits to my pettiness on this point.


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Indeed, lol.

I've seen enough from Allen at this point. If he was improving on his coaching deficiencies then that would be one thing, but he's still making the exact same mistakes he's been making for 3 years now. The 3 straight runs when we were down 4 points in the 4th quarter were the final blow for me. The quarterback is on fire, having completed 20 some passes in a row at some point, and we decide to take the ball out of his hands and run the ball. We haven't run the ball well all season, and we averaged 2.5 yards per carry yesterday. I'm not putting that on the offensive coordinator because we've seen the same thing from IU during Allen's entire tenure. 

And that's before we get into the problems with the defense. Glass hired Allen because he didn't want to lose his defense, but our defense is terrible now. I know that Allen isn't running the defense now, but he probably should if he wants to keep his job. The DC isn't cutting it. 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Indeed, lol.
I've seen enough from Allen at this point. If he was improving on his coaching deficiencies then that would be one thing, but he's still making the exact same mistakes he's been making for 3 years now. The 3 straight runs when we were down 4 points in the 4th quarter were the final blow for me. The quarterback is on fire, having completed 20 some passes in a row at some point, and we decide to take the ball out of his hands and run the ball. We haven't run the ball well all season, and we averaged 2.5 yards per carry yesterday. I'm not putting that on the offensive coordinator because we've seen the same thing from IU during Allen's entire tenure. 
And that's before we get into the problems with the defense. Glass hired Allen because he didn't want to lose his defense, but our defense is terrible now. I know that Allen isn't running the defense now, but he probably should if he wants to keep his job. The DC isn't cutting it. 

There are definitely problems - I just am not watching that much worse of a product than when Wilson was HC. At least, the results are nearly identical. Bowl games make a big difference in terms of perception, but they’re really just one more win.

I’m fine with Allen’s deficiencies as long as the recruiting continues to trend upwards.


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[Hoosierfan2017 20,931]

10 minutes ago, ThompsonHoosier said:

 

 

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No. Allen can get behind the podium and say whatever he wants. He's all bark and no bite. When it's do or die time in the 4th quarter, he collapses. Every single time. It's laughable to hear him say "we came to win" when his 4th quarter coaching says the complete opposite. He didn't coach like someone who wanted to win. He coached like someone who just wanted to keep the score close. 

[ThompsonHoosier 3,414]

No. Allen can get behind the podium and say whatever he wants. He's all bark and no bite. When it's do or die time in the 4th quarter, he collapses. Every single time. It's laughable to hear him say "we came to win" when his 4th quarter coaching says the complete opposite. He didn't coach like someone who wanted to win. He coached like someone who just wanted to keep the score close. 

So what do you propose we do? Let's hear it...and then get rid of that guy as soon as he has a bad game.

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[Hoosierfan2017 20,931]

Just now, ThompsonHoosier said:

So what do you propose we do? Let's hear it...and then get rid of that guy as soon as he has a bad game.

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Don't pretend that this reaction is because of one game. We have seen the exact same thing from him over and over again. Enough is enough. North Carolina lost to Clemson yesterday because they went for two instead of kicking the extra point. I can live with losing that way. I can't live with losing because your coach gets scared and doesn't play to win the game.

What would I do if I was Fred Glass? Well, I never would've hired Allen in the first place, but that's another story. I would tell Tom Allen he has until the end of the season to turn it around or he is gone. At some point you have to actually "break through" instead of just talking about it. And then, I would actually conduct a coaching search. The players aren't the problem. They weren't outmatched by Michigan State yesterday. The coaching staff was the problem. The OC is fine, but Allen and the DC are not. 

[Alford Bailey 12,356]

25 minutes ago, ThompsonHoosier said:

 

 

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OMG! He completely cracked when the pressure was on.

[Alford Bailey 12,356]

8 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Don't pretend that this reaction is because of one game. We have seen the exact same thing from him over and over again. Enough is enough. North Carolina lost to Clemson yesterday because they went for two instead of kicking the extra point. I can live with losing that way. I can't live with losing because your coach gets scared and doesn't play to win the game.

What would I do if I was Fred Glass? Well, I never would've hired Allen in the first place, but that's another story. I would tell Tom Allen he has until the end of the season to turn it around or he is gone. At some point you have to actually "break through" instead of just talking about it. And then, I would actually conduct a coaching search. The players aren't the problem. They weren't outmatched by Michigan State yesterday. The coaching staff was the problem. The OC is fine, but Allen and the DC are not. 

Gotta quit hiring losers. Need to change the midset. 5-7 is not ok and 6-6 is no longer good.

[8bucks 6,353]

Best I can tell we have a few more games before we know how this year turns out. I may not be convinced he is the guy but I tend to think our remaining games will have an impact on my thoughts on him as the coach.

Let it play out.


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[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,623]

Out of Rutgers, Maryland, Nebraska, Northwestern, Purdue we should go 3-2. No reason we can’t go 4-1. And even a chance we go 5-0 with some hella good luck.


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[Aeggie 206]

This thread is just crazy. Allen has this program moving in the right direction and hasn't even finished his third season. I'd like some of the folks suggesting we fire him to actually name some potential replacements for him. Who is going to come to Indiana and get less than three seasons to rebuild the roster even?

Allen is bringing more talent to Indiana than we've ever had and this is his first season with a quarterback that can actually compete in this league. Let him and Penix grow together with guys like Mullen and the other talented underclassmen we have on the field. It's too early to judge Allen and a program like ours needs to exercise more patience. No one is going to be able to flip the roster in two recruiting classes here.

I don't understand getting angsty because our young team played a good Michigan State squad tough at their place. We looked like we belonged all afternoon. We didn't need fluke plays or turnovers to sustain us or stay in the game. We slipped up late but if we play that well at Nebraska we have a good shot. We'll have a good shot in a lot of games this season. It doesn't make sense to write off this team, this coach, or the positive steps this program has taken. The Big Ten is playing nine conference games now, not eight, and this program did not backslide. A 5-7 finish now means more than it did under Wilson. It's a small step, and not enough, but unless you want to just ignore Indiana's long football history even small steps mean something. This team has a good shot at making a bowl this year so I don't get the doom and gloom. Penix makes this team a lot different.

I think Allen should get at least five seasons unless the team craters and wins three games one year.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Gotta quit hiring losers. Need to change the midset. 5-7 is not ok and 6-6 is no longer good.

Okay, but you aren’t going to make a hire that is suddenly going to make us a 7-9 win team every year. That would take multiple wins (and road wins) over MSU, PSU, OSU, and Michigan.

 

There is no coach in existence that can suddenly make that happen. You can hire a winner, but it’s a team of 100+ athletes that play the game. The program’s talent level needs to be elevated and developed with consistency for who knows how long. Safe to say two years isn’t enough.

 

Before anyone says Brohm and Purdue - he really only added a few wins in a worse division. Since 2000, they only missed a bowl game 8 times. Before Hazell, they were a far far better program with far more consistency than Indiana.

 

Jeff Brohm’s current record at Purdue? 14-16.

Tom Allen’s current record at Indiana? 13-16*

*13-17 if you count his interim bowl game debut

 

So Purdue went and hired a “winner” to win in a worse division. The only real differences in results is that 1) they won a bowl game 2) they won one more game to go to another bowl and 3) they beat OSU once.

 

Recruiting? We’re about even. (Overall team ranking per 247Sports)

 

2019

Indiana - 36

Purdue 25

 

2018

Indiana - 50

Purdue - 52

 

2017

Indiana - 62

Purdue - 72

 

Oh, and Purdue is currently 1-3 including loses to Nevada and at home against TCU and Minnesota, but why discuss this year when it’s not over yet...

 

Tom Allen and his coordinators have some decision making immaturities they need to address. They have definite learnings to make as a coaching staff.

 

They also have this program headed in the right direction. There has maybe never been this much excitement in recruiting for IUFB ever. We’re not stealing guys from MAC teams anymore - Tom Allen is going head to head with the big guys and winning high caliber talent. There appears to be a great culture developing within the program - that is absolutely not something to be taken for granted.

 

Everyone hold on to your butts until the season runs it’s course, and stop fawning over Brohm, a “winner”, while he continues to barely achieve anything more than Tom Allen while playing in a division where Nebraska is supposed to be the other powerhouse to Wisconsin.

 

 

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[Certified Sunshine Pumper 8,934]

Embarrassing thread

[Hoosierfan2017 20,931]

35 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Embarrassing thread

I'll make sure to check in with you first next time. 

[bigrod 2,848]

8 hours ago, Aeggie said:

This thread is just crazy. Allen has this program moving in the right direction and hasn't even finished his third season. I'd like some of the folks suggesting we fire him to actually name some potential replacements for him. Who is going to come to Indiana and get less than three seasons to rebuild the roster even?

Allen is bringing more talent to Indiana than we've ever had and this is his first season with a quarterback that can actually compete in this league. Let him and Penix grow together with guys like Mullen and the other talented underclassmen we have on the field. It's too early to judge Allen and a program like ours needs to exercise more patience. No one is going to be able to flip the roster in two recruiting classes here.

I don't understand getting angsty because our young team played a good Michigan State squad tough at their place. We looked like we belonged all afternoon. We didn't need fluke plays or turnovers to sustain us or stay in the game. We slipped up late but if we play that well at Nebraska we have a good shot. We'll have a good shot in a lot of games this season. It doesn't make sense to write off this team, this coach, or the positive steps this program has taken. The Big Ten is playing nine conference games now, not eight, and this program did not backslide. A 5-7 finish now means more than it did under Wilson. It's a small step, and not enough, but unless you want to just ignore Indiana's long football history even small steps mean something. This team has a good shot at making a bowl this year so I don't get the doom and gloom. Penix makes this team a lot different.

I think Allen should get at least five seasons unless the team craters and wins three games one year.

As frustrated as I was watching the game on Saturday, I have to mostly agree with this. Every time they almost intercepted a pass, or almost broke a big play, I was just thinking that those are the things that separate us from the winners. They are putting themselves in position to make the plays, now they just have to get out of their own heads and do it.

I think the best we are going to do for a coach is to get someone like Allen and let him make mistakes and grow into the position. This is just not an attractive job in the division we are in. We are not going to pull a great coach away from another school, and not many "upward trajectory" coaches are going to be willing to take a chance that they can turn things around here.

This may be personal "old school" preference, but I'm not a big fan of Allen "the cheerleader" on the sidelines. You can encourage your team without the theatrics.

I know we've been turning the longest corner ever for the last few years, but they really seem like they are ready to break through.

[Magnanimous 4,507]

Our next four games are very winnable. Let’s see how this stretch of games goes.

[IUc2016 7,121]

6 minutes ago, Magnanimous said:

Our next four games are very winnable. Let’s see how this stretch of games goes.

Agreed. Anything less than 2-3 wins and there will be some valid concerns. Until then, this team is exactly where we thought it would be at this point in the season, 3-2.