The Season Is Finally Over, Now Where Does This Program Go?

[Honkyman 1,670]

Moore played several times and didn't look bad. Same with Forrester. They have work to do but both showed promise. More importantly, they played hard, harder than some of the starters. They should do as individuals whatever they feel is in their own best interests as far as staying or transfering. But I wouldn't be so dismissive.  There are no 2019 recruits where we are frontrunners or even more than a long shot. We lose three players and we're down to nine scholarship players (assuming Romero goes pro). Plus we don't know yet whether Hunter will be available. If there are injuries next year, we could have a pretty short bench.

[Hardwood83 4,512]

On 3/27/2019 at 6:52 AM, HoosierDribbler said:

None of us know for sure what has gone on internally with this team. But if rumors are true that there have been issues between players that can explain a lot.  I'm counting on our coaching staff taking the steps necessary to deal with that now that the season is over and believe they will do so.

Could you share? I've read some other mentions of "rumors" but not much detail. I'm curious who this revolves around and agree it MUST be solved among many other on-court issues. 

[Bailey7878 2,506]

Anderson is 2-3 years away from catching up defensively.  If Archie has a heart, he will help the young man find a slower conference to play in.  Moore is in his second year, he isn't ready for the court...he probably should go.  Forrester has this offseason to be ready, hope he takes advantage of it.   Moore was here last year correct?  He was hurt I think....but....he didn't look like he made any use of his down time last year to learn the game/system.
All Freshman should have some good and bad moments......I just can't remember the good from any of these three (Full disclosure: I tuned out mid February for the most part)

I have been saying the same thing about anderson. A mutual parting of ways is best for both parties. He is just not anywhere close to big ten level right now and likely wont be anytime soon.

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[Hardwood83 4,512]

On 3/27/2019 at 8:35 AM, Chris007 said:

When you say light years ahead do you mean he is much older and been doing this for a long time? As others have pointed out his record at Wichita St first three years was not very good in a lesser conference. He also didn't win his conference this year or make the NCAA. But I understand some of your frustrations. But it's funny to me what some of you put on coaching when it has nothing to do with coaching. I wish people could be at practice to see the coaching being done. But I can only go on Crean and Miller's practice. Last night to me didn't have anything to do with coaching, it had more to do with effort and shooting. Playing within yourself and knowing what a good shot is and what a bad shot is. All just my opinion though

You are right to a degree, but ultimately it is all about the coach. Even if we blame the players (believe me, I have called them some unspeakable names this season) at the end of the day it is still Archie's responsibility, he is the constant. The players aren't listening or giving effort, adopted your culture or whatever? That is on him. I am not saying it's easy and it's cliched to say "Do you think Coach X puts up with this $h!t?".....but do you? How does Cal get effort from his soulless mercenaries every season? He may not be brilliant, but those vermin play hard even though they get everything handed to them by the toothless hilljack knob-slobbers down there. Coach the players you got. If they aren't good enough make them better or go get better ones (talent, attitude or both) that is what the coach is for. 

What bothers me most is these are the same excuses we heard under Crean and sometimes they are legit, but at some point it doesn't matter- WIN GAMES. 

[Chris007 42,284]

2 minutes ago, Hardwood83 said:

You are right to a degree, but ultimately it is all about the coach. Even if we blame the players (believe me, I have called them some unspeakable names this season) at the end of the day it is still Archie's responsibility, he is the constant. The players aren't listening or giving effort, adopted your culture or whatever? That is on him. I am not saying it's easy and it's cliched to say "Do you think Coach X puts up with this $h!t?".....but do you? How does Cal get effort from his soulless mercenaries every season? He may not be brilliant, but those vermin play hard even though they get everything handed to them by the toothless hilljack knob-slobbers down there. Coach the players you got. If they aren't good enough make them better or go get better ones (talent, attitude or both) that is what the coach is for. 

What bothers me most is these are the same excuses we heard under Crean and sometimes they are legit, but at some point it doesn't matter- WIN GAMES. 

I understand what you're saying and agree it's on Archie either gets it done or someone else will try. I was here with Crean, I'm here now, I'm here till my lottery ticket comes in or retirement. But as I said in a previous post those guys at UK are playing hard because they are playing for draft status. They are playing for how much of a contract their going to get next year or endorsements 

[Free Jurkin! 1,496]

Wichita state only missed the tournament this year. I think they had been every year since 2011. No team makes the tournament every year. He's has a very good track record though.

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I guarantee you that if Archie was still at Dayton then they would have made it the last 2 years too. Building a program takes time.


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[Free Jurkin! 1,496]

I do not think he was that far off talking about how the program should be established by now in year two.

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He inherited a team that had lost its best 3 players after losing in the NIT. Then in year 1 he didn't get a chance to bring in his own players and had a missing class. In year 2 he brought in a good class that ended up being crushed by injuries with Thompson, Hunter, and Rob missing significant time.

So he inherited a bad team and didn't have a chance to upgrade the talent in year one. A reasonable expectation would have been for that team to be worse than the team the year before. He upgraded the talent in this recruiting class, but between injuries and the fact that freshmen generally aren't counted on to be impact players, they didn't turn the team around. Also not that surprising... Don't get me wrong, I think this year should have gone better. But it's not like Archie is working with a veteran roster that he's had a chance to mold. His veterans are largely middling, and the young guys lack experience


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[Bailey7878 2,506]

He inherited a team that had lost its best 3 players after losing in the NIT. Then in year 1 he didn't get a chance to bring in his own players and had a missing class. In year 2 he brought in a good class that ended up being crushed by injuries with Thompson, Hunter, and Rob missing significant time.

So he inherited a bad team and didn't have a chance to upgrade the talent in year one. A reasonable expectation would have been for that team to be worse than the team the year before. He upgraded the talent in this recruiting class, but between injuries and the fact that freshmen generally aren't counted on to be impact players, they didn't turn the team around. Also not that surprising... Don't get me wrong, I think this year should have gone better. But it's not like Archie is working with a veteran roster that he's had a chance to mold. His veterans are largely middling, and the young guys lack experience


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The jury is out onif he upgraded talent alot. Romeo and Rob played but anderson, moore, and jake could not even get off the bench. Archie needs to produce next year period. Why do it feel like the twilight zone and we are having another crean honeymoon???

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[Free Jurkin! 1,496]

The jury is out onif he upgraded talent alot. Romeo and Rob played but anderson, moore, and jake could not even get off the bench. Archie needs to produce next year period. Why do it feel like the twilight zone and we are having another crean honeymoon???

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He's not responsible for Moore. He was a Crean recruit. Jake was never expected to contribute this year. We can only go off recruiting rankings, but i expect Hunter and Race to be good players too. Archie has signed a total of 8 recruits. 6 were top 100 and 2 were McD AAs. He's getting players. Let's see what he can do with them before judging his coaching ability off of the prior coach's recruits.

Excluding the freshmen, this year's team had 2 top 100 recruits (Smith and Davis), and Davis couldn't play like one because of his injury. This team just didn't have a lot of talent.


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[Chris007 42,284]

18 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

The jury is out onif he upgraded talent alot. Romeo and Rob played but anderson, moore, and jake could not even get off the bench. Archie needs to produce next year period. Why do it feel like the twilight zone and we are having another crean honeymoon???

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He didn't bring in Moore. Also Moore's family said he couldn't redshirt him. 

[Bailey7878 2,506]

He's not responsible for Moore. He was a Crean recruit. Jake was never expected to contribute this year. We can only go off recruiting rankings, but i expect Hunter and Race to be good players too. Archie has signed a total of 8 recruits. 6 were top 100 and 2 were McD AAs. He's getting players. Let's see what he can do with them before judging his coaching ability off of the prior coach's recruits.

Excluding the freshmen, this year's team had 2 top 100 recruits (Smith and Davis), and Davis couldn't play like one because of his injury. This team just didn't have a lot of talent.


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Huh?? He took moore just like he took al and justin. Is he not responsible for them either??

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[Bailey7878 2,506]

He didn't bring in Moore. Also Moore's family said he couldn't redshirt him. 

Then he should of cut moore lose. He is his player now.

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[Honkyman 1,670]

The coach is responsible for everyone on the team whether he recruited them or not. Its his team. Miller pushed one player out when he came aboard and he could have pushed Moore out as well if he didn't think he had the potential to help the team. As for talent this year, this year's team had a top ten recruit,  an all Big Ten player, two top 100 players and several players ranked just on the other side of the top 100. IU had more talent than several of the teams that defeated them. This year's team had enough talent to make the NCAA tournament (and should have) as evidenced by some of the teams they beat, including crushing Marquette and defeating Michigan State twice. Teams without talent don't beat the teams they beat.

[Bailey7878 2,506]

The coach is responsible for everyone on the team whether he recruited them or not. Its his team. Miller pushed one player out when he came aboard and he could have pushed Moore out as well if he didn't think he had the potential to help the team. As for talent this year, this year's team had a top ten recruit,  an all Big Ten player, two top 100 players and several players ranked just on the other side of the top 100. IU had more talent than several of the teams that defeated them. This year's team had enough talent to make the NCAA tournament (and should have) as evidenced by some of the teams they beat, including crushing Marquette and defeating Michigan State twice. Teams without talent don't beat the teams they beat.

Yep in fact he could have pushed all three out and brought in mckinely wright, etc. I want him to succeed but i am not giving him an excuse on players he chose to keep. Im sick of coaching searches but archie needs to produce next year.

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[southsidehoosier 4,799]

Yep in fact he could have pushed all three out and brought in mckinely wright, etc. I want him to succeed but i am not giving him an excuse on players he chose to keep. Im sick of coaching searches but archie needs to produce next year.

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Wouldn’t pushing them out have affected our APR?


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[RaceToTheTop 23,785]

FWIW, Archie did let one of Crean's players know that he was better off going elsewhere (Gelon Grant).  I'm not a big fan of a coach coming and just cleaning the roster out.  If guys leave, fine.  But telling three guys to 'hit the highway' isn't sending a good message.

In case anyone is interested, Gelon Grant played a semester of junior college ball, signed at SW Misdouri State...they fired their coach, he decommitted and got Ouf of basketball altogether for a year.  Believe he is playing NAIA ball next year at Bellarmine.

[Bailey7878 2,506]

Wouldn’t pushing them out have affected our APR?


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Not sure but they had not taken classes here yet plus during a coaching change you usually get to leave without sitting out a year. So I am not sure how it would have affected it.

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[Bailey7878 2,506]

FWIW, Archie did let one of Archie's players know that he was better off going elsewhere (Gelon Grant).  I'm not a big fan of a coach coming and just cleaning the roster out.  If guys leave, fine.  But telling three guys to 'hit the highway' isn't sending a good message.

You can say you dont fit my system. They can take a hint. Four alabama players are already transferring due to the change. Its not uncommon.

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[Honkyman 1,670]

How could it impact the APR? Those three recruits were not yet enrolled at IU. The point is Miller could have pushed one or more additional recruits out (in addition to Grant Gelon) and brought in players he recruited himself. But he chose to keep those three and who can blame him? All three have talent. He was familiar with Al and Justin having seen them play on the recruiting trail. And, Al and Justin have been regular contributors. It is only Moore who has sat on the bench although this past year he didn't look too bad when he played and played hard.

[RaceToTheTop 23,785]

2 minutes ago, Bailey7878 said:

You can say you dont fit my system. They can take a hint. Four alabama players are already transferring due to the change. Its not uncommon.

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They haven't been told they don't fit the system.  No coach is in place.  And no coach coming in would tell Kira Lewis that.