Cody’s freshman yr vs this year

[8bucks]

I saw where Rabjohns was suggesting that no one who knew anything felt this years IU team was going to be a strong team. He points out that the BT was really strong this year and the roster was not constructed well.

 

Flashback to Cody’s freshman year. I cannot recall the BT strength in 2011-12 but the following year IU, Mich and OSU spent time as #1. I am assuming the conference was strong in Cody’s freshman year too.

 

That year we finished very strong and had a nice run in the tournament.

 

Going into the year we hoped for a big year from Cody but we did not have a strong roster then either. Mo Creek had been lost I think the year before and his absence was a huge hole. Vic was good but not great like he was in 12-13.

 

So why did we do well then vs now? I would argue our roster now is better than then, on paper. My guess is that paper is just a poor way to value a team.

 

Maybe those guys fit the Crean system better than our guys now do Archie’s. I am hoping that is the case. Next year, on paper, we look weaker than this year. But, maybe we are better positioned with Archie guys to do better.

 

Not ordinarily a Pollyanna guy, but when considering Purdue before the year most of us laughed at their chances. On paper they looked terrible. But as a team they are excelling

 

 

 

 

 

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[mdn82]

In Cody’s freshman year we had a top ten class that was balanced become Juniors. They had massive game experience despite not being ready the previous two years. We also had Sheehey and Oladipo who were making the sophomore jump and motivated. Both spent massive time in the gym. What they were missing was a pg/big as well as a primary player. Cody provided that but we didn’t need Cody to go out and average 20+ like we do Romeo. That team could shoot. That is truly the main difference. But beyond that we had 3 classes that produced. The Juniors and Sophomores were huge and Cody was what we needed as icing not the main piece. If Romeo wasn’t asked to be the man, we would be better. If we had shooters that could hit, it would clear lanes for him to drive.

 

 

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[HoosierAloha]

I saw where Rabjohns was suggesting that no one who knew anything felt this years IU team was going to be a strong team. He points out that the BT was really strong this year and the roster was not constructed well.
 
Flashback to Cody’s freshman year. I cannot recall the BT strength in 2011-12 but the following year IU, Mich and OSU spent time as #1. I am assuming the conference was strong in Cody’s freshman year too.
 
That year we finished very strong and had a nice run in the tournament.
 
Going into the year we hoped for a big year from Cody but we did not have a strong roster then either. Mo Creek had been lost I think the year before and his absence was a huge hole. Vic was good but not great like he was in 12-13.
 
So why did we do well then vs now? I would argue our roster now is better than then, on paper. My guess is that paper is just a poor way to value a team.
 
Maybe those guys fit the Crean system better than our guys now do Archie’s. I am hoping that is the case. Next year, on paper, we look weaker than this year. But, maybe we are better positioned with Archie guys to do better.
 
Not ordinarily a Pollyanna guy, but when considering Purdue before the year most of us laughed at their chances. On paper they looked terrible. But as a team they are excelling
 
 
 
 
 
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That team (12-13j was led by upperclassman who had been through a lot of losing and took it upon themselves to get better, individually and as a team. Hulls and Oladipo were gym rats. Zeller knew the game of basketball. Watford knew and played their role well. There was size with Zeller and Watford at the 4. They had outstanding shooting with Hulls, Watford, and Oladipo. The most important factors were upperclassmen leadership and chemistry.

Looking towards next season we’ll have Davis and Green as seniors and Smith, Durham, and Moore as juniors. For several reasons; on court production, off court decision, and availability among others, I don’t see much leadership from that group. I don’t see shooters either. As for the team chemistry, only time will tell.


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[Alford Bailey]

For one the whole roster wasnt injured in 11-12. Also 11-12 team had 4-5 guys who could score and they gave effort every game. For perspective Morgan would come off the bench on that team.

[mark1981]

We could really use a Watford this year

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[Alford Bailey]

As far as Purdue goes does Painter have a bunch of guys on his roster another guy recruited? He is a pretty good coach and he has a few shooters.

[LamarCheeks]

47 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

That team (12-13j was led by upperclassman who had been through a lot of losing and took it upon themselves to get better, individually and as a team. Hulls and Oladipo were gym rats. Zeller knew the game of basketball. Watford knew and played their role well. There was size with Zeller and Watford at the 4. They had outstanding shooting with Hulls, Watford, and Oladipo. The most important factors were upperclassmen leadership and chemistry.

Looking towards next season we’ll have Davis and Green as seniors and Smith, Durham, and Moore as juniors. For several reasons; on court production, off court decision, and availability among others, I don’t see much leadership from that group. I don’t see shooters either. As for the team chemistry, only time will tell.


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I wish Justin would look at tapes to see the difference between Victor the sophomore and Victor the junior. 

Victor the sophomore was a great athlete who couldn't throw the ball into the ocean, but he busted his a$$ after the season and over the summer and became a really good shooter and superstar his junior season -- and ended up as the No. 2 draft pick. 

Justin can't ever be as good as Victor, but he could make a similar type improvement during the offseason. I'm just not sure he cares enough to try to do so. The one thing about Victor was that he pretty much gave 100 percent effort 100 percent of the time. 

Justin seems to give 100 percent effort about 5 percent of the time. That's what is so frustrating watching him: so much ability, but -- and maybe I'm wrong; I wish I were -- it seems like he just doesn't care. 

[LamarCheeks]

7 minutes ago, mark1981 said:

We could really use a Watford this year

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And an Oladipo. And a Zeller. And a Hulls. And a Yogi. And a Sheehey. 

[HoosierAloha]

I wish Justin would look at tapes to see the difference between Victor the sophomore and Victor the junior. 

Victor the sophomore was a great athlete who couldn't throw the ball into the ocean, but he busted his a$$ after the season and over the summer and became a superstar his junior season -- and the No. 2 draft pick. 

I don't think Justin can ever be as good as Victor, but he could make a similar type improvement during the offseason. I'm just not sure he cares enough to do try to do so. The one thing about Victor was that he pretty much gave 100 percent effort 100 percent of the time. 
Justin seems to give 100 percent effort about 5 percent of the time. That's what is so frustrating watching him: so much ability, but -- and maybe I'm wrong; I wish I were -- it seems like he just doesn't care. 

That’s the biggest thing. I see Smith as an athlete that plays basketball. Vic was an athlete that lived basketball to become a basketball player. I honestly don’t see it in Smith to ever put forth the effort to become a basketball player.


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[8bucks]

Here is a season preview for that 2011-12 team. While there was hope, there was also a lot of doubt.

I had forgotten but Watford was often a mismatch his first 2 years and had not lived up to his ranking.

https://www.btpowerhouse.com/platform/amp/2011/10/27/2514228/2011-12-indiana-preview


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[mdn82]

Here is a season preview for that 2011-12 team. While there was hope, there was also a lot of doubt.

I had forgotten but Watford was often a mismatch his first 2 years and had not lived up to his ranking.

https://www.btpowerhouse.com/platform/amp/2011/10/27/2514228/2011-12-indiana-preview


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That’s the thing. Most top 50ish guys are not instant impact 30 mpg. Especially as the first option. That 2009 class was pretty similar to this 2018 class, in that there are a couple of guys that could play early, but weren’t immediate impact players. Most people how good that class was. It just clicked when the foundation settled. Now the main difference in that class and this current freshmen class is the shooters.


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[MikeRoberts]

For one the whole roster wasnt injured in 11-12. Also 11-12 team had 4-5 guys who could score and they gave effort every game. For perspective Morgan would come off the bench on that team.

Morgan isn’t coming off the bench on that team nor most good teams. He is an all-bigten player


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[HoosierAloha]

Morgan isn’t coming off the bench on that team nor most good teams. He is an all-bigten player


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Who is he starting over?

Zeller and Oladipo were All-Americans, Watford was a mismatch for most other 4s and over 40% from deep, Hulls was a lights out shooter, Yoginwas guaranteed a starting spot to play at IU.


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[8bucks]

That’s the thing. Most top 50ish guys are not instant impact 30 mpg. Especially as the first option. That 2009 class was pretty similar to this 2018 class, in that there are a couple of guys that could play early, but weren’t immediate impact players. Most people how good that class was. It just clicked when the foundation settled. Now the main difference in that class and this current freshmen class is the shooters.


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I agree. Most of this exercise for me in this thread has been cathartic. I was pretty discouraged with what we have on paper after Romeo and JoMo leave but if those 4star guys develop, and buy in to Archie, then next year is not necessarily going to be worse.




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[DChoosier]

1 hour ago, LamarCheeks said:

Justin can't ever be as good as Victor, but he could make a similar type improvement during the offseason. I'm just not sure he cares enough to try to do so. The one thing about Victor was that he pretty much gave 100 percent effort 100 percent of the time. 

Justin seems to give 100 percent effort about 5 percent of the time. That's what is so frustrating watching him: 

Bingo. Consistent effort is not there.

VO had unbelievable drive. I’m not saying that to disparage Smith but VO had/has a will to improve that most people do not possess. Can Smith turn it around? Maybe, but unlikely. Fellow dinosaurs will remember how Landon Turner decided to focus rather than “enjoying” the college life. His turnaround was key to us winning a banner but many kids do not change their “make-up”.

[MikeRoberts]

Who is he starting over?

Zeller and Oladipo were All-Americans, Watford was a mismatch for most other 4s and over 40% from deep, Hulls was a lights out shooter, Yoginwas guaranteed a starting spot to play at IU.


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This is Cody’s freshman year. Victor and Cody weren’t all-Americans that year, Watford was starting to figure it out, as was hulls but none of them were the players they were in in 12/13.

Yogi was not there then either so that leaves verdell and he is in no way in Morgan’s league. We would have started or at least given the most minutes to hulls, oladipo, Morgan, Watford, zeller. That would be the most talented 5 with all five being able to score


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[8bucks]

This is Cody’s freshman year. Victor and Cody weren’t all-Americans that year, Watford was starting to figure it out, as was hulls but none of them were the players they were in in 12/13.

Yogi was not there then either so that leaves verdell and he is in no way in Morgan’s league. We would have started or at least given the most minutes to hulls, oladipo, Morgan, Watford, zeller. That would be the most talented 5 with all five being able to score


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I agree. Today’s Morgan would have been a starter (Crean recruited him ha). Morgan at the beginning of last year may not have been

Morgan is a great #2 or #3 guy on a strong team. But he is not a strong #1 guy. But on that team, he would have started or got starter minutes.


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[HoosierAloha]

23 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

This is Cody’s freshman year. Victor and Cody weren’t all-Americans that year, Watford was starting to figure it out, as was hulls but none of them were the players they were in in 12/13.

Yogi was not there then either so that leaves verdell and he is in no way in Morgan’s league. We would have started or at least given the most minutes to hulls, oladipo, Morgan, Watford, zeller. That would be the most talented 5 with all five being able to score


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My bad, I completely missed that.  I was comparing Cody's freshman year going into his sophomore year to this season going into next season. 

[Walking Boot of Doom]

That roster had, what? Five 1,000 point career guys? Experience man. They also had the immeasurable pride of bringing Indiana back from the bottom. Crean was recruiting guys with a chip on their shoulder back then. We got good and he got cute with recruiting. My two cents...


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[Brass Cannon]

5 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

That roster had, what? Five 1,000 point career guys? Experience man. They also had the immeasurable pride of bringing Indiana back from the bottom. Crean was recruiting guys with a chip on their shoulder back then. We got good and he got cute with recruiting. My two cents...


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Six I believe

Jones, Cody, Watford, Hulls, Sheehey Oladipo