Indiana vs Penn State Post Game Thread

[Uspshoosier 54,565]

Smith did have a couple of key rebounds late. But..... what did he do next? He darn near turned it over with 2 bad air head passes! His inability to finish at the rim is unfortunately his trademark. He reminds me of this quote by Bobby Bowden..... "Son, you've got a good engine, but your hands aren't on the steering wheel."

 

 

 

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He was the main defender on all B1G Stevens and held him 10 points under his average. He was averaging 22 pt. Led the team in rebounds last night. Coaches say if your not scoring try to impact the game in other ways. He did that, it just always wasn’t in a positive way. His offensive game is a train wreck right now especially turnovers and finishing through contact. Hopefully the light goes off because for IU to be at their best he needs to figure things out.

 

 

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[Whoozhers 3,781]

Smith 25 minutes. Moore 7 minutes. I don’t recall Moore playing in the second half. Why?


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[NRT137 316]

Smith 25 minutes. Moore 7 minutes. I don’t recall Moore playing in the second half. Why?


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Maybe you’re like Jason Bourne and have amnesia


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[A.j. Nigh 1,000]

6 minutes ago, Whoozhers said:

Smith 25 minutes. Moore 7 minutes. I don’t recall Moore playing in the second half. Why?


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Because as productive as his first 2 minutes were, and it was nice to see, he was then completely lost on defense and missed an easy block out.  Penn State ran a back screen at the ft line against him and he was still looking at the guard who had already passed the ball to his man under the hoop for a bucket.  For all of Smith’s offensive issues, his defense was leaps and bounds better and a key factor last night.

[Brass Cannon 25,478]

12 minutes ago, A.j. Nigh said:

Because as productive as his first 2 minutes were, and it was nice to see, he was then completely lost on defense and missed an easy block out.  Penn State ran a back screen at the ft line against him and he was still looking at the guard who had already passed the ball to his man under the hoop for a bucket.  For all of Smith’s offensive issues, his defense was leaps and bounds better and a key factor last night.

Which considering his D had been a train wreck recently perhaps there is hope

[Whoozhers 3,781]

That was a bad defensive play by Moore. Granted. But, compare his productive 7 minutes vs. Smith’s 25. He packed a lot into his 7 minutes.
I like Smith, it sure would be good to see him play to his potential every game though.


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[Brass Cannon 25,478]

1 minute ago, Whoozhers said:

That was a bad defensive play by Moore. Granted. But, compare his productive 7 minutes vs. Smith’s 25. He packed a lot into his 7 minutes.
I like Smith, it sure would be good to see him play to his potential every game though.


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Moore is like Green. Great for a spark but once the other team realizes who they are playing they adapt. 

 

[Stuhoo 89,878]

 

Our bigs (other than Juwan) present Archie with an interesting conundrum. 

The most intuitive of the 'non-Juwan bigs' on both ends of the floor is DeRon; he is the best screener, runs the offense, has good hands, passes pretty well out of the post, gets into help position on defense...all that. The problem is that his skill set is not a good match for what Archie is trying to do. When he does everything right he is still a split second slow on the defensive end and with his ability to rebound. He can't jump, and he can't close out when hedging all that well.

Justin is a pure plus defender; all the things that Archie is looking for on that end. Lamar Stevens saw it last night. Justin's instincts are quite good on that end of the floor, and because of that his athleticism is unleashed on that end. However, on the offensive end his instinctual reactions are terrible, and therefore his athleticism is never brought into play. I'm guessing that Archie's current take is to have Justin play as much as possible without the ball in his hands and hope that his sense of how to play offense develops. Remember, he is only nine games into his sophomore year. That's the problem with Green; he is nine games into his junior year and has to play with the ball in his hands. If DeVonte can't play with the ball in his hands by now the jury is in.

Fitzner? The guy has Hanner Perea-level bad hands. He did a nice job on-ball against Stevens last night - his length must've bothered him a bit, but his ability to help on defense stinks. Max Bielfeldt he ain't.

Moore intrigues me. First; it is a given that he very much still needs to gain 15 pounds. But his timing defensively and rebounding is naturally so, so good; the 'Moore comes in and alters/blocks shots' thing is real. He looks confused on both ends of the floor but he's barely played - maybe he gets some real run after the Butler/Louisville games during our December cupcake stretch. Wouldn't be shocked if they give him a real look to see if he can supplant Fitzner; he has a lot more potential. If he can learn to hedge hard on screens, screen and pop with authority instead of chasing the ball to screen, and improve his defensive vision we may have another useful piece.

 

 

[SlamaJamaSisley 3,625]

34 minutes ago, A.j. Nigh said:

Because as productive as his first 2 minutes were, and it was nice to see, he was then completely lost on defense and missed an easy block out.  Penn State ran a back screen at the ft line against him and he was still looking at the guard who had already passed the ball to his man under the hoop for a bucket.  For all of Smith’s offensive issues, his defense was leaps and bounds better and a key factor last night.

I agree with you for the most part.  I won't claim to be an expert on pack line but Al had to hold up Moore's guy at least a little on that back screen, right?  Now, whether Moore is engaged enough to recover (likely not) is another story.  I just bet Archie gets on to Al just as much as Moore.

[Brass Cannon 25,478]

7 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Our bigs (other than Juwan) present Archie with an interesting conundrum. 

The most intuitive of the 'non-Juwan bigs' on both ends of the floor is DeRon; he is the best screener, runs, the offense, has good hands, passes pretty well out of the post, gets into help position on defense...all that. The problem is that his skill set is not a good match for what Archie is trying to do. When he does everything right he is still a split second slow on the defensive end and with his ability to rebound. He can't jump, and he can't close out when hedging all that well.

Justin is a pure plus defender; all the things that Archie is looking for on that end. Lamar Stevens saw it last night. Justin's instincts are quite good on that end of the floor, and because of that his athleticism is unleashed on that end. However, on the offensive end his instinctual reactions are terrible, and therefore his athleticism is never brought into play. I'm guessing that Archie's current take is to have Justin play as much as possible without the ball in his his hands ds and hope that his sense of how to play offense develops. Remember, he is only nine games into his sophomore year. That's the problem with Green; he is nine games into his junior year and has to play with the ball in his hands. If DeVonte can't play with the ball in his hands by now the jury is in.

Fitzner? The guy has Hanner Perea-level bad hands. He did a nice job on-ball against Stevens last night - his length must've bothered him a bit, but his ability to help on defense stinks. Max Bielfeldt he ain't.

Moore intrigues me. First; it is a given that he very much still needs to gain 15 pounds. But his timing defensively and rebounding is naturally so, so good; the 'Moore comes in and alters/blocks shots' thing is real. He looks confused on both ends of the floor but he's barely played - maybe he gets some real run after the Butler/Louisville games during our December cupcake stretch. Wouldn't be shocked if they give him a real look to see if he can supplant Fitzner; he has a lot more potential. If he can learn to hedge hard on screens, screen and pop with authority instead of chasing the ball to screen, and improve his defensive vision we may have another useful piece.

 

 

Romeo should get all of Smiths possessions

[Stuhoo 89,878]

21 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Romeo should get all of Smiths possessions

 

Sure (in theory), but it's just not that simple. 

I'm certainly no college-level coach but I've coached a little, and it is very, very difficult (and throws everything out of whack) when you have to try to 'hide' a player on either end of the court. I know you're using hyperbole, but can you imagine Archie telling Smith and Romeo that "Smith should give Romeo his possessions?" One of the great things about Romeo is that he doesn't mindlessly 'hunt shots' (okay, last night he took one NBA distance heat-check three pointer).  Romeo is new at this, but his already getting a great sense of when it's in the team's best interest for him to take over. The last 3:30 of the NW game and a few times last night when the shot clock was running down are proof positive. Romeo's usage rate is already plenty high.

 

BY THE WAY; as much as I try to be a jolly good time around here, I LOVE it when the board talks real basketball. Huge kudos to pap, usps, Old Friend and others for prompting this conversation!

 

[Brass Cannon 25,478]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Sure (in theory), but it's just not that simple. 

I'm certainly no college-level coach but I've coached a little, and it is very, very difficult (and throws everything out of whack) when you have to try to 'hide' a player on either end of the court. I know you're using hyperbole, but can you imagine Archie telling Smith and Romeo that "Smith should give Romeo his possessions?" One of the great things about Romeo is that he doesn't mindlessly 'hunt shots' (okay, last night he took one NBA distance heat-check three pointer).  Romeo is new at this, but his already getting a great sense of when it's in the team's best interest for him to take over. The last 3:30 of the NW game and a few times last night when the shot clock was running down are proof positive. Romeo's usage rate is already plenty high.

 

 

Agreed would have gone more in depth but site keeps crashing on me. Gotta keep posts short

[Stuhoo 89,878]

10 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Archie's offense is bad right now.   There's just no purpose to it.   It's sometimes hard for me to figure out where he wants shots to come from and I have no idea how you can't find a significant role for a player like Smith but you can watch Devonta Green turn it over game after game while he shoots 35% from the floor.  Our freshmen had a combined 29/11/6 with just 3 turnovers and 6-6 from the FT line in a total of 63 minutes.  That's a good night. Thought Durham was solid as well.

 

 

The offense isn't great right now - true.

But, let me give you the positive spin on that. Last year we improved dramatically on offense by Jan/Feb with DeVonte Green and Josh Newkirk (yeesh) running the show, complemented by a very young and confused Smith and Durham, and with the extremely limited McSwain and Hartman in the big rotation. 

If those guys could 'get it' as the year progressed, then Phin and Romeo absolutely will. That, and as you said, a sophomore Durham is an entirely different player than he was as a freshman.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo 4,319]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

 

The offense isn't great right now - true.

But, let me give you the positive spin on that. Last year we improved dramatically on offense by Jan/Feb with DeVonte Green and Josh Newkirk (yeesh) running the show, complemented by a very young and confused Smith and Durham, and with the extremely limited McSwain and Hartman in the big rotation. 

If those guys could 'get it' as the year progressed, then Phin and Romeo absolutely will. That, and as you said, a sophomore Durham is an entirely different player than he was as a freshman.

 

Durham looks like he might be our third scoring option honestly. He has been stroking it well from 3 and has nice touch around the basket.

[HoosierX 1,785]

Just now, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Durham looks like he might be our third scoring option honestly. He has been stroking it well from 3 and has nice touch around the basket.

He is slowly breaking me of my need to shout out "Nooooo!" every time he shoots.

[Stuhoo 89,878]

2 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Durham looks like he might be our third scoring option honestly. He has been stroking it well from 3 and has nice touch around the basket.

 

"He has been stroking it well from 3" is an understatement; he is 12-25 on the season! That's 48%.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo 4,319]

23 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

"He has been stroking it well from 3" is an understatement; he is 12-25 on the season! That's 48%.

 

I'm an understated man.

[incrediboy 928]

2 hours ago, Whoozhers said:

Smith 25 minutes. Moore 7 minutes. I don’t recall Moore playing in the second half. Why?


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I think that was a good decision. Let the kid have a positive game to build on. 

[JSHoosier 22,232]

Green gave IU a spark in the first half and PSU a spark in the second.  Relying on him for big minutes is playing with fire because of his sub-zero basketball IQ.  It's why I have never been a fan.

Maybe he got away with it on playgrounds in New York but it doesn't work at this level.

[incrediboy 928]

Later in the season I think we will look back on this game as a crucial one. As Watkins gets healthy, Penn State will start winning and I will be surprised if it doesn't finish in the top half of the league and go to the Big Dance. Its win over Va Tech was no fluke, and Tech beat Purdue at Mackey after being down by 6 at the half. Hopefully we'll get Hunter back when conference play resumes. I'm feeling very good about this team going forward.