(2019) CG - Anthony Harris to North Carolina

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Steve Alford probably would right about now. 

Hah! The one benefit to Steve is everyone on Nevada will be HIS guys. That's about the cleanest slate imaginable. Do they have 1 scholarship player left?

[Hillsdale87]

3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

How many top 100 players did we have last year?  

He had like 8 scholarship players. He got basically all to contribute versus our 50% or so. 

Just because  he did more with less doesn’t mean he had a better situation. 

I was wrong... OSU had 4 top 100 players, and 3 of them were seniors. Last year IU had one top 100 upperclassman (Davis), and he was playing on one leg all season. Holtmann may have been lower on overall quantity, the but overall quality was not close. 

Comparing OSU's 2018 and IU's 2018 is tougher. IU had a roster with pretty good talent, but very little experience. OSU was low on talent, but very long on experience. The way that played out is that IU had some high highs and some low lows, while OSU was mostly consistently mediocre. 

[BGleas]

I don't care what the preseason predictions were two years ago, I don't see how anyone can say that Holtman took over a worse situation? Those predictions were wrong, because people didn't know what they were talking about. 

Holtman took over a team that returned Keita Bates-Diop, who was injured the year before which was a major reason OSU had a down year Matta's last season, Jae'Sean Tate, CJ Jackson, Kam Williams, all veterans, and let's not forget Holtman inherited, by shear luck because his brother was already in the program, Kaleb Wesson. 

So between the two teams, Holtman had the best player (Bates-Diop, who is much better than Morgan), the more proven returners, and the best in-coming player, all in a system that was basically identical. 

I'm not saying that Holtman hasn't done a good job, or that Archie has done a great job, but Holtman had the much better situation and smoother transition. 

[Brass Cannon]

1 hour ago, Free Jurkin! said:

I was wrong... OSU had 4 top 100 players, and 3 of them were seniors. Last year IU had one top 100 upperclassman (Davis), and he was playing on one leg all season. Holtmann may have been lower on overall quantity, the but overall quality was not close. 

Comparing OSU's 2018 and IU's 2018 is tougher. IU had a roster with pretty good talent, but very little experience. OSU was low on talent, but very long on experience. The way that played out is that IU had some high highs and some low lows, while OSU was mostly consistently mediocre. 

Slow and steady wins the race. Holtman hasn’t missed the tourney while at a P5 school and is killing it on recruiting. 

He lost a lot after his first year and he coached his guys up and made the tourney. We lost 1 starter and replaced him with a 5 star 1 and done and it translated to not all that much because for the most part our player development was not there. 

[BGleas]

34 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Slow and steady wins the race. Holtman hasn’t missed the tourney while at a P5 school and is killing it on recruiting. 

He lost a lot after his first year and he coached his guys up and made the tourney. We lost 1 starter and replaced him with a 5 star 1 and done and it translated to not all that much because for the most part our player development was not there. 

How are you defining losing 1 starter? Robert Johnson started the entire season. Newkirk started 24 games. At the end of the season when the team was playing its best McSwain was starting. McRoberts, who we essentially lost because of injury this past season, started 17 games including the end of the season. 

In terms of regular, consistent starters, we really only returned Morgan. I guess you could argue Davis and Green, but Davis missed the second half of Archie's first season and was coming off a major injury, and Green only started 12 games. To be fair, Green's starts were towards the end of the year when the team was playing better. 

[LamarCheeks]

2 hours ago, Hovadipo said:

I see your point, but it becomes a good venting thread instead of it leaking to other parts of the board. There won’t be much more to talk about when a kid goes elsewhere, so might as well let the meltdown happen in one spot. 

This thread has mostly become about Holtmann vs. Archie ... It stopped being about Anthony Harris long ago ... LOL! 

[Brass Cannon]

13 minutes ago, BGleas said:

How are you defining losing 1 starter? Robert Johnson started the entire season. Newkirk started 24 games. At the end of the season when the team was playing its best McSwain was starting. McRoberts, who we essentially lost because of injury this past season, started 17 games including the end of the season. 

In terms of regular, consistent starters, we really only returned Morgan. I guess you could argue Davis and Green, but Davis missed the second half of Archie's first season and was coming off a major injury, and Green only started 12 games. To be fair, Green's starts were towards the end of the year when the team was playing better. 

You are correct. I forgot McSwain took over for Smith. 

We returned 3 starters(from end of season) and then Smith who played very good as a freshmen and was anticipated to be ready to be a starter. 

[jk34]

46 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Slow and steady wins the race. Holtman hasn’t missed the tourney while at a P5 school and is killing it on recruiting. 

He lost a lot after his first year and he coached his guys up and made the tourney. We lost 1 starter and replaced him with a 5 star 1 and done and it translated to not all that much because for the most part our player development was not there. 

But you're expecting Archie to sprint in a marathon. His recruiting is doing just fine as well.

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, jk34 said:

But you're expecting Archie to sprint in a marathon. His recruiting is doing just fine as well.

Missing on like a dozen targets is hardly just fine. 

Clearly Archie thought he needed another guard and we couldn’t get one. 

Now in 2020 we will have a very thin guard rotation.  Probably requiring a freshmen or grad transfer that cycle to contribute. 

[jk34]

8 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Missing on like a dozen targets is hardly just fine. 

Clearly Archie thought he needed another guard and we couldn’t get one. 

Now in 2020 we will have a very thin guard rotation.  Probably requiring a freshmen or grad transfer that cycle to contribute. 

"Slow and steady" wins the race. 2 unexpected schollies pop up,  why not give it a shot. I understand the frustration, but the initial question was what is your solution to fix all of this?

[Brass Cannon]

21 minutes ago, jk34 said:

"Slow and steady" wins the race. 2 unexpected schollies pop up,  why not give it a shot. I understand the frustration, but the initial question was what is your solution to fix all of this?

I don’t have a solution but that doesn’t make it more acceptable 

[Hovadipo]

1 hour ago, LamarCheeks said:

This thread has mostly become about Holtmann vs. Archie ... It stopped being about Anthony Harris long ago ... LOL! 

Well then get on topic...Archie or Chris?

 

;)

[8bucks]

I don't care what the preseason predictions were two years ago, I don't see how anyone can say that Holtman took over a worse situation? Those predictions were wrong, because people didn't know what they were talking about. 
Holtman took over a team that returned Keita Bates-Diop, who was injured the year before which was a major reason OSU had a down year Matta's last season, Jae'Sean Tate, CJ Jackson, Kam Williams, all veterans, and let's not forget Holtman inherited, by shear luck because his brother was already in the program, Kaleb Wesson. 
So between the two teams, Holtman had the best player (Bates-Diop, who is much better than Morgan), the more proven returners, and the best in-coming player, all in a system that was basically identical. 
I'm not saying that Holtman hasn't done a good job, or that Archie has done a great job, but Holtman had the much better situation and smoother transition. 

I am probably misremembering but I thought Diop had been a bit of a disappointment early in his career and that before the season began IU was the better situation. You never really know till the kids start playing but I am fairly confident that OSU exceeded preseason expectations. Looking back it seemed to have been better but not during the summer.

Whereas we had several players who had a lot of experience.

Not sure who is better but right now Holtman is in a better spot.


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[Uspshoosier]

I am probably misremembering but I thought Diop had been a bit of a disappointment early in his career and that before the season began IU was the better situation. You never really know till the kids start playing but I am fairly confident that OSU exceeded preseason expectations. Looking back it seemed to have been better but not during the summer.

Whereas we had several players who had a lot of experience.

Not sure who is better but right now Holtman is in a better spot.


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Averaged 12 and 6 as a sophomore playing 31.5 minutes only played 9 games junior year before getting hurt


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[8bucks]

Averaged 12 and 6 as a sophomore playing 31.5 minutes only played 9 games junior year before getting hurt


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Yeah but as a top 25 kid I think they expected more. Looked it up and he was averaging under 10 pts a game before his injury. Not a bust by any means but I don’t think he was a sure fire stud going into his 2nd Jr year.


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[Alford Bailey]

The Anthony Harris thread became a Chris Holtmann thread?

[Alford Bailey]

Not a bit surprised.  I believe Harris wanted to play in the ACC.

[8bucks]

The Anthony Harris thread became a Chris Holtmann thread?

I think Hova had a good point on this.




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[LamarCheeks]

1 hour ago, Hovadipo said:

Well then get on topic...Archie or Chris?

 

;)

I would take Tony Bennett six days a week and seven times on Sunday over either of those two -- and that was years before he won the natty. (Although like Anthony Harris, there was very little chance he'd ever come to B-Town!). 

[Uspshoosier]

Yeah but as a top 25 kid I think they expected more. Looked it up and he was averaging under 10 pts a game before his injury. Not a bust by any means but I don’t think he was a sure fire stud going into his 2nd Jr year.


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He got hurt in one of his first games and tried to play through the injury before they shut him down after 9 games. 12 and 6 for a sophomore and the teams 2nd leading scorer for the year is pretty good. Not sure how many other sophomores that year had stats that good but it probably wasn’t many


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