Allen was the correct choice

[southsidehoosier]

Glass hired WIlson. He has to bear some responsibility for Wilson’s problems here. Fred does not know how to hire coaches. Wilson- failure. Moren- failure. Giving Crean the fat extension and waiting too long to fire him- failure. Allen- looking like a failure.

Todd Yeagley - looks like a good hire
Archie Miller - TBD but like the potential




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[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, southsidehoosier said:

 

Todd Yeagley - looks like a good hire
Archie Miller - TBD but like the potential




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Yeagley was hardly a choice. Biggest no brainer ever. 

Lemonis another disaster to add to the list

[Old Friend]

16 hours ago, TXHoosierDaddy said:

Yet our AD gave him a nice, big extension not terribly long before he was removed as HC. That either tells me our AD is out of touch with coaches, not good at his job or there are two sides to that story. 

This kind of comment is toxic and uninformed.  You (nor I, nor anyone here) know anything about what goes on internally or why things happen the way they do.  The first instinct of the incompetence of people is unhealthy and difficult to take seriously.   

[Old Friend]

29 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

Glass hired WIlson. He has to bear some responsibility for Wilson’s problems here. Fred does not know how to hire coaches. Wilson- failure. Moren- failure. Giving Crean the fat extension and waiting too long to fire him- failure. Allen- looking like a failure.

How is Allen looking like a failure?  His recruits have barely played a down, and his roster this year was very depleted.  You don't win in the Big Ten, and especially the Big Ten East without a good QB and a decent line.   We had neither.  And lost two experienced skill players very early.    Reasons are not always excuses.   They guy built a defense that ranked 26th in the country two seasons after in ranked #120.   That's far from a failure in my book.

Glass' job description according to Michael McRobbie is VERY different than it is according to fans.  Our barometer is winning.  McRobbie is a European idealogue academe with a bias towards the east coast and the money that comes with it.  Glass' job is to make sure the athletic department doesn't lose money; RAISES money, to bolster academic performance among the athletic department and make sure kids get their "promised" education.  The ONLY program McRobbie cares about as far as winning is concerned is men's basketball.  Like others, I know what I know; and while I won't say all of that is absolute 100% fact; I WILL say it's as accurate as I can be.

[Stuhoo]

3 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

How is Allen looking like a failure?  His recruits have barely played a down, and his roster this year was very depleted.  You don't win in the Big Ten, and especially the Big Ten East without a good QB and a decent line.   We had neither.  And lost two experienced skill players very early.    Reasons are not always excuses.   They guy built a defense that ranked 26th in the country two seasons after in ranked #120.   That's far from a failure in my book.

Glass' job description according to Michael McRobbie is VERY different than it is according to fans.  Our barometer is winning.  McRobbie is a European idealogue academe with a bias towards the east coast and the money that comes with it.  Glass' job is to make sure the athletic department doesn't lose money; RAISES money, to bolster academic performance among the athletic department and make sure kids get their "promised" education.  The ONLY program McRobbie cares about as far as winning is concerned is men's basketball.  Like others, I know what I know; and while I won't say all of that is absolute 100% fact; I WILL say it's as accurate as I can be.

 

GREAT post.  likelikelikelike.

[Brass Cannon]

13 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

How is Allen looking like a failure?  His recruits have barely played a down, and his roster this year was very depleted.  You don't win in the Big Ten, and especially the Big Ten East without a good QB and a decent line.   We had neither.  And lost two experienced skill players very early.    Reasons are not always excuses.   They guy built a defense that ranked 26th in the country two seasons after in ranked #120.   That's far from a failure in my book.

Glass' job description according to Michael McRobbie is VERY different than it is according to fans.  Our barometer is winning.  McRobbie is a European idealogue academe with a bias towards the east coast and the money that comes with it.  Glass' job is to make sure the athletic department doesn't lose money; RAISES money, to bolster academic performance among the athletic department and make sure kids get their "promised" education.  The ONLY program McRobbie cares about as far as winning is concerned is men's basketball.  Like others, I know what I know; and while I won't say all of that is absolute 100% fact; I WILL say it's as accurate as I can be.

If his job is to raise money I would think successful revenue sports would be important across the board. Not just basketball

[TXHoosierDaddy]

40 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Yeagley was hardly a choice. Biggest no brainer ever. 

Lemonis another disaster to add to the list

Glass seems to like to go the coordinator/assistant route -  Lemonis, Allen, Wilson all weren't current HC's when they were hired. I'm giving Lemonis one more year since this will be his first full recruiting cycle. Tracy Smith might be available after this year if not. 

[Old Friend]

23 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

If his job is to raise money I would think successful revenue sports would be important across the board. Not just basketball

Raising money and athletic revenue are different things.  See : Varsity Club.   See : Donations.

Those things are driven by men's basketball, which is a huge reason Crean was fired and the biggest reason Davis was asked to resign.  Donations go up when there is a positive impression of the department and university as a whole.  There is more to that than winning women's basketball games.    Football is kind of its own animal; and Indiana is doing everything it can to drive revenue there.   This is an impossibly difficult place to win.

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Raising money and athletic revenue are different things.  See : Varsity Club.   See : Donations.

Those things are driven by men's basketball, which is a huge reason Crean was fired and the biggest reason Davis was asked to resign.  Donations go up when there is a positive impression of the department and university as a whole.  There is more to that than winning women's basketball games.    Football is kind of its own animal; and Indiana is doing everything it can to drive revenue there.   This is an impossibly difficult place to win.

That's kind of my point two bad football hires or at least 1 bad and one questionable in IUs biggest potential area for growth. 

I would be curious if it's even possible for baseball to be a moneymaker. I doubt it but don't know the business side of that very well

[Old Friend]

11 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

That's kind of my point two bad football hires or at least 1 bad and one questionable in IUs biggest potential area for growth. 

I would be curious if it's even possible for baseball to be a moneymaker. I doubt it but don't know the business side of that very well

Baseball at Indiana isn't a money maker.  It may be at 10 schools across the country.   Which was the bad football hire?  (DiNardo was a bad hire, but he was not a Glass hire)    Wilson took Indiana to back to back bowls for the first time since 1993, and his recruiting classes skyrocketed in rankings compared to what came before him.  Allen is an unknown as a head coach.  You'll never sell me on a guy being a bad hire when he took the defense from #120 to #26 in 2 years.  Players love the guy.  Local coaches love the guy, and he also has a top 50 recruiting class (which at Indiana is an upgrade, believe it or not).

This is not a football school; and it's impossibly hard to win here.  We are not going to get a top coach.  I hate to burst that bubble, but we aren't.  Neither is Kansas.  Neither is Kentucky.  Welcome to being a basketball school among high profile football programs.  That's reality.  I don't like it, but I accept it.

[HoosierAloha]

Isn't McRobbie Australian? I could be totally off on that.


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[Brass Cannon]

50 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Baseball at Indiana isn't a money maker.  It may be at 10 schools across the country.   Which was the bad football hire?  (DiNardo was a bad hire, but he was not a Glass hire)    Wilson took Indiana to back to back bowls for the first time since 1993, and his recruiting classes skyrocketed in rankings compared to what came before him.  Allen is an unknown as a head coach.  You'll never sell me on a guy being a bad hire when he took the defense from #120 to #26 in 2 years.  Players love the guy.  Local coaches love the guy, and he also has a top 50 recruiting class (which at Indiana is an upgrade, believe it or not).

This is not a football school; and it's impossibly hard to win here.  We are not going to get a top coach.  I hate to burst that bubble, but we aren't.  Neither is Kansas.  Neither is Kentucky.  Welcome to being a basketball school among high profile football programs.  That's reality.  I don't like it, but I accept it.

If I have to explain why Wilson was a bad hire then I'm not sure you will truly understand why he was a bad hire. 

[HoosierX]

15 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

If I have to explain why Wilson was a bad hire then I'm not sure you will truly understand why he was a bad hire. 

So by your logic, which has to be implied since you're not stating it, Bob Knight was a bad hire as well.

[323SGrant]

Glass seems to like to go the coordinator/assistant route -  Lemonis, Allen, Wilson all weren't current HC's when they were hired. I'm giving Lemonis one more year since this will be his first full recruiting cycle. Tracy Smith might be available after this year if not. 

If Tracy Smith comes back, I’m fine with that.


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[Old Friend]

44 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

If I have to explain why Wilson was a bad hire then I'm not sure you will truly understand why he was a bad hire. 

Good God.  This condescending crap doesn't even warrant a response, but I can't help myself.   When did we start talking about off field stuff?   Glass knew Wilson would do what he did when he hired him, right?   He has impeccable foresight for a guy who was here 6 years, right?   Every coach who gets fired is a bad hire, right? Regardless of whether or not the reasons were on or off-field.  As someone said above, this logic makes Knight a bad hire.  It makes Woody Hayes a bad hire.  How incredibly stupid.  

Was the program in better shape when he left than when he got there?  Yes   Was our team deeper and more talented?  Yes.  Did the record improve and even stabilize at a level it hadn't in over 2 decades?  Yes.  Did we send more players to the NFL than we had before?  Yes.  

The benefit of hindsight for off-field behavior issues does not make Wilson a bad hire you can blame on the athletic director.  That is completely moronic and devoid of a valid point in the conversation at hand.   Good Lord.  The flawed logic of this is comical.  Believe me, I understand very well what you're trying to do there; and frankly it's kinda' elementary.  

[Hoosierfan2017]

47 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Isn't McRobbie Australian? I could be totally off on that.


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Yeah he is. 

[Magnanimous]

I'm not going to reply to anyone in particular, because several points of discussion keep coming up regarding Fred Glass and they're ridiculous.

 1) Crean's Extension 

Glass' decision to give Tom Crean an extension when he did was not wrong. The program was trending upwards heavily once Zeller committed and subsequently played in 2011, the 2012 recruiting class looked like it would sustain the program's trajectory, and an extension signified what most believed at the time, that the program was back. It wasn't about rewarding a 5th place finish in 2011-12, but rather providing stability for the program's image going forward.

Now should the extension have been as large as it was or had as big of a buyout as it did? No. But Crean followed up that extension with winning the Big 10. Had he not received an extension at the start of the season, he undoubtedly would have received one following the 2012-13 season irregardless of the Syracuse loss. He very well may have been coaching us last night if that scenario played out. 

2) Handling Kevin Wilson

Kevin Wilson was a knockout hire when we brought him in. He was the OC for two Heisman quarterbacks at one of the most prominent programs in the country. Not only did he have the credentials to coach IU, but he brought a much needed change to IUFB in regards to the program's identity. IU rarely resembled a complete football team before he came. The program he took over had Bill Lynch starting our baseball team in the secondary. Wilson was a maniac and his personal issues were rightfully his own undoing, but IU now looks like an actual P5 program on both sides of the ball, and that wouldn't have happened if we went our traditional route of hiring burnouts. 

I never thought Kevin Wilson was the long-term solution to lead our program, but he was the correct choice in turning the culture of the locker room around to the extent that our players weren't dogging it in practice and we had D1 talent on the field. I talked to several former IU football players who played under Lynch and then left the program, and they kept saying that no one on those teams cared, very few approached practice with any sense of duty or pushed themselves and others to take IU to that next level. Kevin Wilson's tenure gave way for a new HC to inherit a program that could actually be built upon. 

People get on Fred Glass for giving Wilson an extension and subsequently firing him within a year. Well, Kevin Wilson deserved that extension and he also deserved to be fired. There really isn't much more to it than that, and he was replaced by someone who the players respect and most importantly, brought a competent defense to Bloomington for the first time in forever. IU is not a football school, and our program needed to get out of the rut of either hiring coaches on their way out of the game or (though it hasn't happened here) hiring someone who would use IU as a stepping stone to a bigger gig. If IU ever wants sustained football competency, we need a coach who knows his stuff, hasn't burned out elsewhere, and isn't looking to leave. 

3) Hiring Lemonis 

We got lucky that Tracy Smith was as successful as he was here. If you haven't noticed, there aren't many relevant baseball programs in this area, especially in our conference. Lemonis wasn't a knockout hire, but IU baseball is still Big 10 baseball, and we haven't fallen off a cliff after Smith left due in part to bringing in someone who has ties to Louisville's program and footprint. Baseball is baseball, and what's most important is getting talent in the program. Our 2017 class is ranked 38th by Perfect Game, with only Michigan being ranked higher within our conference. Not a single Big 10 team is ranked in the top 20. That's about par for the course when it comes to Big 10 baseball recruiting. Talent-wise we're still near the top of the conference, and we should remain competitive in the coming years. IU baseball needs to prove its bigger than Tracy Smith, and Lemonis is showing on the recruiting front that it possibly is. 

4) IU's image

Fred Glass has made some questionable decisions that forced him to "play the heavy" as the face of the athletic department, such as playing the NIT game on the road last year, but for the most part our programs are respectable and well received by the rest of the country. Given where we were 10 years ago with NCAA sanctions, I'd say Fred Glass has done a sound job in repairing IU's image and avoiding any further embarrassment.

Just look at what Tennessee has been facing the last two weeks. The management decisions surrounding the athletic department there have made their brand borderline toxic. No one wants to take the job in-part due to the realities of working under such an incompetent administration.

Penn State's AD bent their program over a table for the NCAA following the Sandusky scandal. Say what you want about how Penn State responded to the actual crimes, but there was zero leadership coming out of there during a moment of crisis.

How about Louisville and the grand job Jurich did allowing bribery and prostitution to run rampant throughout their athletic department for the sake of winning?

Also, before Scott Frost signed with Nebraska, he wanted assurances that the incompetency in NU's athletic department were a thing of the past. He would not have taken that job under the administration of last year.

Meanwhile, IU's athletic department has given no reason for potential coaching candidates to think that they would be dealing with an inept, overbearing, and under-qualified administration. There were only a handful of jobs Archie Miller would have taken, and while part of that has to do with a program's prominence, it also has to do with who he would be working with on a day-to-day basis. The hottest coaching prospect of last year, who grew up in a coaching family and whose brother is also a nationally recognized coach, decided that IU's AD had the competency to work under. From the small sample size, I couldn't be happier with Archie's coaching philosophy and am very confident he's the one to lead our program back to prominence. Say whatever you want, but his decision to come here speaks volumes to the perception of our athletic department, and the man who is in charge of that deserves credit for projecting and sustaining that image of IU to the rest of the country. 

[Walking Boot of Doom]

Damn, and I thought the Romeo thread was painful. 

[cthomas]

Based on the things I saw from him here in Indianapolis, I thought he was a good hire to run the IU athletic department. I haven't seen anything so far to make me think otherwise. Having an attorney as AD is probably a good thing. I like his connections to the university and I think he gets the culture. Overall, we could and have in the past, done a lot worse.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

It is only because IU has such low standards when it comes to athletics performance that he is able to keep his job.

Do you think those standards have been raised? Also, this will be difficult for you, but Old Friend laid it out pretty clearly... AD’s don’t need to know “sports”. They have way more complex things to worry about.


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