Corruption in College Basketball

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, mdn82 said:

When's the last time you saw a criminal snitch on themselves to get more charges? You really think he is going to dive into all of his transgressions?


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I'd be be worried about Fair saying stuff about kJ

[mdn82]

I'd be be worried about Fair saying stuff about kJ

The good thing is Fair didn't see KJ hand money to a Noah Vonleh, Troy Williams, or Stanford Robinson. Those are probably the three key players outside of I suppose James Blackmon he was the lead on. Blackmon I would argue was mostly Crean. Now if you were to ask me if I believe KJ gave money to players while he was here I would say probably. He was only here two years cause he was making $200k to pull players in. Once he left the kids he was after followed him. I truly don't think Crean was involved therefore I don't see KJ snitching on himself. He has nothing to gain with the FBI and he won't talk to NCAA.


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[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, mdn82 said:

The good thing is Fair didn't see KJ hand money to a Noah Vonleh, Troy Williams, or Stanford Robinson. Those are probably the three key players outside of I suppose James Blackmon he was the lead on. Blackmon I would argue was mostly Crean. Now if you were to ask me if I believe KJ gave money to players while he was here I would say probably. He was only here two years cause he was making $200k to pull players in. Once he left the kids he was after followed him. I truly don't think Crean was involved therefore I don't see KJ snitching on himself. He has nothing to gain with the FBI and he won't talk to NCAA.


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Very true

[reconmkd]

The letter from UofL prez to Pitino!![emoji57]http://kentuckysportsradio.com/main/uofl-president-blasts-pitino-over-pattern-and-practice-of-inappropriate-behavior/


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[Stuhoo]

1 hour ago, mdn82 said:

The good thing is Fair didn't see KJ hand money to a Noah Vonleh, Troy Williams, or Stanford Robinson. Those are probably the three key players outside of I suppose James Blackmon he was the lead on. Blackmon I would argue was mostly Crean. Now if you were to ask me if I believe KJ gave money to players while he was here I would say probably. He was only here two years cause he was making $200k to pull players in. Once he left the kids he was after followed him. I truly don't think Crean was involved therefore I don't see KJ snitching on himself. He has nothing to gain with the FBI and he won't talk to NCAA.


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Wellll (ie; not so fast mdn)...

Generally: If a case target is looking at an indictment, it is very common for that target and a lawyer for that target to meet with prosecutors and submit to a full, truthful, and complete interview about anything the prosecutors and agents want to ask about while under the protection of a proffer letter/aka a qualified immunity letter/ aka a "queen for a day" agreement.

That proffer letter allows the prosecutors to make derivative use of anything said, but exempts the interviewee from the use of the statements during the interview being used as a confession. However, if the interview is less than fully accurate and truthful, there is a codicil in the agreement that allows the prosecutors to use not just the statements as derivative material, but also as a confession.

This type of interview is often part of the process of someone being charged as part of an information (a pre-indictment plea agreement).

In other words, if Kenny J has criminal exposure and wants to mitigate it, there is a legal-process mechanism that would allow him to lay out everything he knows, including about his exposure in matters that the investigative team did not already know about, without creating additional criminal exposure for Kenny. I strongly suspect that is the type of agreement that led to the cooperation of Marty Blazer and the initiation of the FBI investigation. 

Is this what is actually going on with Kenny Johnson? I have no idea.

 

[mdn82]

  Wellll (ie; not so fast mdn)...

Generally: If a case target is looking at an indictment, it is very common for that target and a lawyer for that target to meet with prosecutors and submit to a full, truthful, and complete interview about anything the prosecutors and agents want to ask about while under the protection of a proffer letter/aka a qualified immunity letter/ aka a "queen for a day" agreement.

That proffer letter allows the prosecutors to make derivative use of anything said, but exempts the interviewee from the use of the statements during the interview being used as a confession. However, if the interview is less than fully accurate and truthful, there is a codicil in the agreement that allows the prosecutors to use not just the statements as derivative material, but also as a confession.

This type of interview is often part of the process of someone being charged as part of an information (a pre-indictment plea agreement).

In other words, if Kenny J has criminal exposure and wants to mitigate it, there is a legal-process mechanism that would allow him to lay out everything he knows, including about his exposure in matters that the investigative team did not already know about, without creating additional criminal exposure for Kenny. I strongly suspect that is the type of agreement that led to the cooperation of Marty Blazer and the initiation of the FBI investigation. 

Is this what is actually going on with Kenny Johnson? I have no idea.

 

 

Ok, but if he doesn't have evidence, how does that apply to us in an NCAA investigation? That is what I am saying. I don't care what he says if he doesn't keep a ledger. I highly doubt Crean was a part of any money passing on to get any of the players I spoke of. If I am wrong so be it, but I have 0.00% concern in the current time of NCAA violations coming to Indiana due to this process.

 

Edit: Do you all realize how many coaches names are getting thrown around as we speak? Numerous. You know how many of those coaches will get in trouble without a paper trail? 0. Due to the same reasons it took the FBI to blow this open. The NCAA has minimal jurisdiction to either subpoena or have wire taps. The coaches involved in this will have 10+ year show cause. They have 0 reason to provide anything let alone snitching on themselves for previous transgressions they were the ones privy to. I am not worried about IU getting in trouble.

 

 

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[mdn82]

If I were coach that was known to hang out with agents or handlers I would be more worried. There are a few of those around.


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[Stuhoo]

2 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Ok, but if he doesn't have evidence, how does that apply to us in an NCAA investigation? That is what I am saying. I don't care what he says if he doesn't keep a ledger. I highly doubt Crean was a part of any money passing on to get any of the players I spoke of. If I am wrong so be it, but I have 0.00% concern in the current time of NCAA violations coming to Indiana due to this process.


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NOW we agree completely. All I am saying is that there is a legal mechanism to get Kenny to talk about his whole history of misconduct (whatever that might be) without Kenny creating any new criminal exposure for himself. 

I also doubt that Crean was part of any of that potential misconduct, and I also have zero concern that the IUBB program will have any issues going forward.

 

[Brass Cannon]

So Stuhoo these new indictments do you think they are the result of the seized computers and early phone calls that were recorded by the original 10 people charged. 

[AKHoosier]

I swear, if I learn Kenny Johnson cheated to get freaking Stan Robinson, Troy Williams, and Noah Vonleh I would laugh my a$$ off.  None of those guys would have been worth cheating for.

[Stuhoo]

10 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

So Stuhoo these new indictments do you think they are the result of the seized computers and early phone calls that were recorded by the original 10 people charged. 

 

Hard to tell without seeing the new charging documents. The search warrants could have led to new defendants, but it's also possible that it could be:

• They were withholding some of the indictments the first time around to see if some of the early arrestees could tighten up or add additional charges to the case against others.
• Some of the defendants from the first round made recordings post-arrest but pre-public unveiling of the charges, and those recordings led to substantial new evidence.
• They thought they had plea/cooperation agreements in place with additional defendants, but they fell through and those people will now be indicted.
• The media has sources that are calling them indictments when they are actually informations (charges with an inherent plea agreement) from cooperators.
• Superseding indictments (ie, additional or altered charges) against defendants that have already been charged.

[Stuhoo]

6 minutes ago, AKHoosier said:

I swear, if I learn Kenny Johnson cheated to get freaking Stan Robinson, Troy Williams, and Noah Vonleh I would laugh my a$$ off.  None of those guys would have been worth cheating for.

 

Vonleh was a five star, and in the pay to play era he would be "pay-worthy."

 

[AKHoosier]

Just now, Stuhoo said:

 

Vonleh was a five star, and in the pay to play era he would be "pay-worthy."

 

Yeah I get that and know he was top 10, I guess I'm using some pretty strong revisionist history with the benefit of hindsight.

He wasn't very good, or he was pretty good but it didn't matter because his team was really bad.

[coonhounds]

Yeah I get that and know he was top 10, I guess I'm using some pretty strong revisionist history with the benefit of hindsight.
He wasn't very good, or he was pretty good but it didn't matter because his team was really bad.

Vonley sat out to protect his draft stock of we paid him he should have got on the floor imo

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[MikeRoberts]

Yeah I get that and know he was top 10, I guess I'm using some pretty strong revisionist history with the benefit of hindsight.
He wasn't very good, or he was pretty good but it didn't matter because his team was really bad.

Vonleh was very good, not a fan favorite but that doesn't change how good he was. He was a high school McDonalds all American that was the bigten freshmen of the year, 3rd team all bigten and a top ten draft pick.



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[mdn82]

Vonleh was very good, not a fan favorite but that doesn't change how good he was. He was a high school McDonalds all American that was the bigten freshmen of the year, 3rd team all bigten and a top ten draft pick.



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Yep the dude wasn't the best shot but could rebound anything within a country mile of him. Solid defender. Also, IMO it would be very odd to pay an early signee that wasn't going to see the floor his sophomore year. He was ultra young and we wouldn't be paying for the best Noah Vonleh. I personally don't see that, but hey, there is a lot of that going on. As much as people will laugh I personally feel if any of KJ players got paid it was Troy. Just where he came from wasn't most stable situation, and we got him from notorious UNC Nike Pipeline AAU. In KJ neck of the woods. KJ knows Boo.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

I liked Vonleh, the basketball player, not Vonleh the Hoosier.

Kid was good. Kid wasn't really "ready" for the NBA but it's working out OK for him. I wish he would have viewed his stay at IU differently and been more in the moment.

Even still he was one of our best players as a Freshman, and I don't have hate for him at all, it's just an ugly process with these top 10 guys. Especially the ones that project more than they actually show and Vonleh fit into that category. In the end, he likely made the best choice for him and probably could have been a true "straight to NBA" in the older days.


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[Walking Boot of Doom]

4 minutes ago, Iugradman said:

Then we vacate 64 wins and a Big Ten title. Crean truly was a crappy coach to have to pay players to get his mediocre results.

Wow you really just jumped to a lot of conclusions.

[Hoosierfan2017]

I feel like if we were paying Troy his mom wouldn't have been able to keep her mouth shut about it for three years. 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

I feel like if we were paying Troy his mom wouldn't have been able to keep her mouth shut about it for three years. 

They all do though. They know the risks. The talk amongst themselves.

Shaq was another one that admitted to getting paid.


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