TOM CREAN FIRED

[Hoosier Guy]

I just don't like the idea of Marshall. He's obviously a good coach but not on the level of Stevens, Donovan or Archie Miller imo. I'm not sold on Marshall at a power conference school

[theriverpilot]

5 minutes ago, CrossboneIU22 said:

I think Marshall would be an absolute home run hire.  Maybe not the Grand slam that Stevens or Donovan would be, but Marshall is certainly proven he can win against "like" teams and with far less talent than he would get at a major program.  He is definitely way above Crean.  He is more proven then Archie.  Archie could be better in the long run, or he could be a fluke.  I also think Sean Miller would be a home run hire.  Bennett and Archie would be definite upgrades over Crean but S. Miller and G. Marshall would be home run hires.  And this is just looking at their stats, not even bringing the eye test into it since that can be objective.

 

Gregg Marshall

Born: February 27, 1963
Alma Mater: Randolph-Macon (1985)

Career Record (major schools): 19 Years, 451-172, .724 W-L% 
Schools: Winthrop (194-83) and Wichita State (257-89)

Conference Champion: 10 Times (Reg. Seas.), 8 Times (Tourn.)

NCAA Tournament: 12 Years (10-12), 1 Final Four, 0 Championships

Tourney Appearance %:  .632

 

Sean Miller

Born: November 17, 1968
Alma Mater: Pittsburgh (1992)

Career Record (major schools): 13 Years, 334-112, .749 W-L% 
Schools: Xavier (120-47) and Arizona (214-65)

Conference Champion: 6 Times (Reg. Seas.), 2 Times (Tourn.)

NCAA Tournament: 9 Years (17-9), 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships

Tourney Appearance %:  .692

 

Tony Bennett

Born: June 1, 1969
Alma Mater: Green Bay (1992)

Career Record (major schools): 11 Years, 254-114, .690 W-L% 
Schools: Washington State (69-33) and Virginia (185-81)

Conference Champion: 2 Times (Reg. Seas.), 1 Time (Tourn.)

NCAA Tournament: 6 Years (9-6), 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships

Tourney Appearance %:  .545

 

Archie Miller

Born: October 30, 1978
Alma Mater: North Carolina St. (2003)

Career Record (major schools): 6 Years, 139-60, .698 W-L% 
School: Dayton (139-60)

Conference Champion: 1 Time (Reg. Seas.), 0 Times (Tourn.)

NCAA Tournament: 3 Years (5-3), 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships

Tourney Appearance %:  .500

 

Tom Crean

Born: March 25, 1966
Alma Mater: Central Mich. (1989)

Career Record (major schools): 18 Years, 354-229, .607 W-L% 
Schools: Marquette (190-96) and Indiana (164-133)

Conference Champion: 3 Times (Reg. Seas.), 0 Times (Tourn.)

NCAA Tournament: 9 Years (11-9), 1 Final Four, 0 Championships

Tourney Appearance %:  .500

I see the records and stats, yet I still don't think Marshall is the guy.  He's a double at best, but a marked improvement over Crean!

[HoosierCoop]

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/217726350/indiana-hoosiers-future-tom-crean-hot-seat

Nice article.

[CrossboneIU22]

1 minute ago, Hoosier Guy said:

I just don't like the idea of Marshall. He's obviously a good coach but not on the level of Stevens, Donovan or Archie Miller imo. I'm not sold on Marshall at a power conference school

What has you sold on Archie at a power conference school?  Only thing that he has going for him over Marshall is age.  Watching Archie's games reminds me of Crean 2.0 just with defense.  Now the defense alone would be enough for me to take him over Crean, but not over any of the others.  His sample size is very small so to say he is proven is wrong.  He is highly touted, but so are others who haven't panned out at power conference schools.  (ie, Groce, Shaka, etc).  I just think the love for Archie is overblown and the hate for Marshall is overblown.  Again, I would take either, but with this hire, I'd rather have the more proven guy even if he isn't going to stay as long as the unproven one "COULD".

[HoosierCoop]

6 hours ago, Hoosier Guy said:

Syracuse debacle. Wanted him gone ever since. If he couldn't win with that team, he wasn't gonna win with any team. Been a long four years on the tank train but the ride is about over

Jeremiah April...that when I knew he was reaching on recruits and couldn't find any willing body.

[Hoosier Guy]

1 minute ago, CrossboneIU22 said:

What has you sold on Archie at a power conference school?  Only thing that he has going for him over Marshall is age.  Watching Archie's games reminds me of Crean 2.0 just with defense.  Now the defense alone would be enough for me to take him over Crean, but not over any of the others.  His sample size is very small so to say he is proven is wrong.  He is highly touted, but so are others who haven't panned out at power conference schools.  (ie, Groce, Shaka, etc).  I just think the love for Archie is overblown and the hate for Marshall is overblown.  Again, I would take either, but with this hire, I'd rather have the more proven guy even if he isn't going to stay as long as the unproven one "COULD".

The A-10 has much more competition than the MVC could ever dream about. What Marshall has done is impressive without question, but I don't think it would translate to a power conference school

[JSHoosier]

15 minutes ago, nerdvana said:

I'll be shocked in Glass even entertains the thought of hiring Marshall.  No inside info here....Just a gut feeling, but I really don't think their personalities would mesh well.

I didn't say he would.  I wouldn't have Marshall as a top choice, but a backup?  Absolutely.  If Glass doesn't even have Marshall as an alternate option than he may be an idiot.

[Trish]

I believe Marshall is a lateral move at best when compared to CTC. Yes the winning is impressive along with the conference championships. However, that conference is nothing compared to the B1G. 

1. Stevens

2. Billy

3. Mike White

4.Chris Collins

5.Archie Miller 

 

 

[JSHoosier]

1 minute ago, Treesh said:

I believe Marshall is a lateral move at best when compared to CTC. Yes the winning is impressive along with the conference championships. However, that conference is nothing compared to the B1G. 

1. Stevens

2. Billy

3. Mike White

4.Chris Collins

5.Archie Miller 

 

 

The resources he's had are nothing compared to IU.

[CrossboneIU22]

20 minutes ago, theriverpilot said:

I see the records and stats, yet I still don't think Marshall is the guy.  He's a double at best, but a marked improvement over Crean!

Ok, so then why do you think that?

Don't give me age, looks or attitude as a reason for not wanting him because looks and attitude are the dumbest reasons for not wanting him.  Age within limits but he still has 10-15 years coaching (assuming his health is fine, I don't have stats to say it is or isn't but assuming its fine).  Donovan is only 2 years younger than Marshall.  The only thing unknown about Marshall is how he would do at a power conference school in the tourney but his past record shows success in Tourneys with "like" teams which lets be real, a power 5 school is a "like" team in the NCAA, not the mid major teams.  Just look a the past 32 winners and really I could keep going.  All of them from power conferences.

1. Villanova
2. Duke
3. Uconn
4. Louisville
5. Kentucky
6. Uconn
7. Duke
8. UNC
9. Kansas
10. Florida
11. Florida
12. UNC
13. UConn
14. Syracuse
15. Maryland
16. Duke
17. Michigan State
18. Uconn
19. Kentucky
20. Arizona
21. Kentucky
22. UCLA
23. Arkansas
24. UNC
25. Duke
26. Duke
27. UNLV
28. Michigan
29. Kansas
30. Indiana
31. Louisvlle
32. Villanova

[Trish]

1 minute ago, JSHoosier said:

The resources he's had are nothing compared to IU.

Very true and of course the talent level is not the same. That being said, I don't believe we need to be the school that decides to give him his first swing in a real conference. Let NC State have him.

I'm aware my point could be made about Archie Miller as well. Miller's youth and coaching ability intrigues me. 

[dallas44]

I'm certain he's an improvement over Crean, but I'm just not sure how much potential he'd have here.  The floor would be higher, but I'm not sure how high the ceiling would be.

THIS. That's why I really like a younger coach (Archie) who could run the show in Bloomington the next 30 years. Marshall is 53. If we cant get Billy , I hope we call Archie next.


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[dallas44]

I believe Marshall is a lateral move at best when compared to CTC. Yes the winning is impressive along with the conference championships. However, that conference is nothing compared to the B1G. 

1. Stevens

2. Billy

3. Mike White

4.Chris Collins

5.Archie Miller 

 

 

Why collins ahead of Archie? Just curious, given their track records . Collins only has had 1 good year


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[Trish]

4 minutes ago, dallas44 said:

Why collins ahead of Archie? Just curious, given their track records . Collins only has had 1 good year


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Collins just gives me that "IT" vibe. I've been impressed from the coaching that I've seen from him. He spent a number of years under one of the greatest coaches ever. He's from the Illinois so he could hopefully lock down this area. 

 

It's more of just a feeling when it comes to Collins. Same feeling you get when you see a player out on the court and decide he/she has a bright future. 

[JSHoosier]

8 minutes ago, dallas44 said:

THIS. That's why I really like a younger coach (Archie) who could run the show in Bloomington the next 30 years. Marshall is 53. If we cant get Billy , I hope we call Archie next.


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Archie Miller could also turn out to be a flash in the pan that we'd want gone.

[JSHoosier]

Just now, Treesh said:

Collins just gives me that "IT" vibe. I've been impressed from the coaching that I've seen from him. He spent a number of years under one of the greatest coaches ever. He's from the Illinois so he could hopefully lock down this area. 

 

It's more of just a feeling when it comes to Collins. Same feeling you get when you see a player out on the court and decide he/she has a bright future. 

And Crean was on Izzo's bench.  Although he didn't play at a high level.

[VeevlandBrowns]

14 hours ago, Maynard said:

Okay all, when was it that you realized for certain that Crean was not the man for the job?  I knew the first time I saw Verdell Jones fall down.

That Michigan BTT game. Ball screen defense for Indiana was a little better than it was vs MSU. So it improved from an F to a C-minus.

It's clear they had worked on it, but they were still on dial-a-clue too often vs basic ball screen plays. 

They had four problems with it in the last five minutes.

1. The Donnal travel. UM turned it over but on the play when Donnal was so surprised that he was so wide open that he traveled at the rim, it was due to Hartman and Bryant BOTH covering the ball on a ball screen.

2. There was a weave handoff in which OG committed a reach-in foul (or "reach around" as Dakich called it). Indiana was sloppy with attempted switch rotations vs those handoffs.

3. Bryant fouled Walton on a drive (that was after a 1/5 switch). During a time out, Indiana clearly decided to switch on all ball screens. This resulted in Bryant, a center, guarding a point guard, Walton - which is precisely what you're trying to avoid in most situations for most of a game. Sometimes you'll see teams (like MSU) switch everything on the last possession of a game. But this was a desperate attempt by Indiana for some sort of change-up success. It failed.

4. On Duncan Robinson's 3-pointer that tied the game, OG over-helped to the inside for Yogi vs a Zak Irvin drive. This wasn't a ball screen situation, but Indiana had become overly aware of trying to help on the weakside that they over-helped in this situation. First of all, Yogi shouldn't need help vs a driving Zak Irvin. And he definitely shouldn't need THAT much help from a sagging wing. And a sagging wing shouldn't help THAT much when guarding Robinson when up 3 late in a game. 

Bad, bad, bad. That team was not playing Final Four defense.

I'll add this is why the bit of crying as to "disrespect" toward IU (in some obscure corners of the Internet...or any Indiana media outlet) was off base. This is who they were. A paper tiger and not a championship threat. What got them past the prior year's level is the defense improved from horrendous to semi/almost average. That said, there were still some big holes, as I pointed out. 

[Trish]

Just now, JSHoosier said:

And Crean was on Izzo's bench.  Although he didn't play at a high level.

Crean didn't even play college basketball correct? Good for him for making it this far without that experience. When we hired Crean, I wasn't sold. I remember being on the Scout board and being concerned on what we just did to our future.

 

[JSHoosier]

2 minutes ago, Treesh said:

Crean didn't even play college basketball correct? Good for him for making it this far without that experience. When we hired Crean, I wasn't sold. I remember being on the Scout board and being concerned on what we just did to our future.

 

Nope.  He served as an assistant at his high school during college.

[Dalton26]

The thing with Collins and Archie(who I'm extremely high on) is you don't hire them based on what they've done now, you hire them based on the potential they've shown. That's why Donovan is my number 1 but I don't think Collins would be a bad hire and I'd be ecstatic over Archie. Like JS said the risk of hiring on potential is that in a few years we have egg on our face for hiring them. We'll just have to wait and see.