The koolade is wearing off.

[JSHoosier]

I kind of have to agree with Old Friend here.  If Diamont is our starting QB this won't be as good of a season as we want, QBs have to be able to throw and he can't; it's not just his arm strength but his accuracy as well, last we saw he struggled just to throw on target intermediate passes.

[hsrtxp]

He's had another year to develop so hopefully he has improved. I would guess each week Lagow is getting more and more familiar with the system. I'm still hopeful that we between the two of them we can have a successful season. I don't expect the same offensive output as we saw with Sudfeld. If the defense has improved like we have heard and can make some stops, the offense won't have to score so many points to win a game.


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[Alford Bailey]

On 8/12/2016 at 0:23 AM, indianato said:

I'm not blowing up wilson and the team. Not shredding my season tickets. I was just hoping that the #1 juco pocket passer would be a little more polished and be able to pull away from Diamont. That's all I'm saying.

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Thats what we all were hoping for. Diamont as the starter is a little scary. With all the RB talent maybe we go 3 yards and a cloud of dust?

[Alford Bailey]

13 hours ago, Old Friend said:

If Zander is our QB, we will not win 6 games.  He is a novelty.  Can't throw the ball downfield, which means teams can stack safeties.  He is okay as a relief pitcher when teams don't prepare for him, but when they do?   He's a bad option. And shame on the coaching staff.  Sudfeld was a senior a year ago, and that was no secret.  To go into this season even discussing Zander as our #1 QB is embarrassing.  He IS tough.  He IS fast.  But we had one of those for 4 years under Cam Cameron, never went to a bowl game with him; and he COULD throw the ball.   There's history here, folks.  Zander is a million miles short of Antwaan Randle El.  It's very easy to think this team is different and Zander will be just fine and the team will overcome his weaknesses.  But.....he's not.   It won't.

To win in the Big Ten, you need quality QB play, which means you need a guy who can throw it; or you need dominance in other areas; and Indiana doesn't have that.  Zander as the #1 QB is a horrible idea and an ominous sign for the football team.   He is what he is....a small, quick QB with very limited skills.  He's not going to be 6'4" with a Big Ten arm.  I hate the idea of him under center.

Pretty much my thoughts. How do you not have a sure thing at QB when your offense revolves around an accurate big arm? My fear is the defense will finally be B1G competitive but the offense will struggle.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Pretty much my thoughts. How do you not have a sure thing at QB when your offense revolves around an accurate big arm? My fear is the defense will finally be B1G competitive but the offense will struggle.

Until I see IU play defense in the B1G slate I will be keeping my fingers crossed with hope while filled with doubt. We have the personnel to be better, but year after year our D is shredded since my college years with Randle El.


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[akhosrof]

I don't think we have enough information to judge either QB yet. We don't know how polished or unpolished Lagow is, nor do we know how improved Zander's arm strength is. There isn't much practice footage out there, and reporters haven't been given much field access.

The first three non-conference games will be a huge opportunity for our offense to get on track. We just have to trust CKW will choose the right guy.

Even if Lagow is streaky, the big play ability he showed in the spring game justifies his place as the starter. With our receivers, we just need a guy who can put it down field for our guys to make a play on the ball.

I'm not worried...

[HoosierReb01]

If I'm not mistaken, Cameron has been getting many of the second string snaps behind Lagow. It's camp, so how the board stacks up in the season may be different, but from what I've read it sounds like Diamont is third string at this point. 

[HoosierAloha]

If I'm not mistaken, Cameron has been getting many of the second string snaps behind Lagow. It's camp, so how the board stacks up in the season may be different, but from what I've read it sounds like Diamont is third string at this point. 

But, but! There was an actual discussion on this board!!

[Old Friend]

13 hours ago, Josh said:

 

Poor teams with Randle El wasn't because of quarterback play. ARE was one of the best in the nation. The defense let us down every week.

Poor comparison.

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And Indiana has had a bad defense for.....how long?   You're making an awfully shaky assumption that our defense will magically be decent.   Randle El was the best small, shifty quarterback in Big Ten history and perhaps in college football history and he could throw the ball.  Zander can't.    So....you're basically telling me Zander at QB is no big deal even if he's a weak passer because our defense is THAT much better than it was when Randle El was the quarterback, so this is a bowl team with Zander under center.

Is that basically right?   If so....I just have to shake my head and laugh at a pollyanna fan.  Reality is sometimes difficult to swallow.

[Miller'sTheMan]

26 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

And Indiana has had a bad defense for.....how long?   You're making an awfully shaky assumption that our defense will magically be decent.   Randle El was the best small, shifty quarterback in Big Ten history and perhaps in college football history and he could throw the ball.  Zander can't.    So....you're basically telling me Zander at QB is no big deal even if he's a weak passer because our defense is THAT much better than it was when Randle El was the quarterback, so this is a bowl team with Zander under center.

Is that basically right?   If so....I just have to shake my head and laugh at a pollyanna fan.  Reality is sometimes difficult to swallow.

On paper I think our defense should be a lot better. The extra experience in the secondary between Andre Brown and Jonathan Crawford alone should be enough to improve that unit significantly, and the reports of Marcelino Ball having a great camp are encouraging. We already know we have a couple good players back there in Chase Dutra and Rashard Fant. On paper the linebackers should be one of the top units in the B1G between Tegray Scales and Marcus Oliver. The real weak point for the defense is at the D-Line right now. Robinson and Gooch are really going to have to step up at the defensive end positions, and Hoff/Green need to at least be respectable on the inside against the run. The depth along the defensive line is also pretty concerning. 

Add all the units up though and I don't think it's unrealistic to expect some solid improvement from the defense as a whole.

 

Also, I disagree with your point on comparing Zander to Randle El... Not because Zander would ever be that good, but because the Indiana offense as a whole has more talent than when Randle El played. Redding was a 1,000+ yard rusher last season... And Wilson still says Camion Patrick is the best player on the team at RB. The offensive line has been one of the better units in the B1G for the last few years now and that's expected to continue, and our WR core is stacked between Ricky Jones, Simmie Cobbs, and Mitchell Paige with a lot of promising depth behind them as well. 

[X-Hoosier]

Good chance our defense will he garbage again. We were Top 75 in run defense but 126th in pass defense. But the ESPN experts have Indiana as a sleeper to have good DB's.

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[lucel15]

Good chance our defense will he garbage again. We were Top 75 in run defense but 126th in pass defense. But the ESPN experts have Indiana as a sleeper to have good DB's.

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Finally my time to chime in. I don't believe our defense will be garbage. Will they be a top 25 defense no. But have a significant growth from last year.... Yes. Why... Because our dbs are deep, young athletic and most of all our young guys are experienced and played in tough games. Our LBs are deep. Where we are short is the line that was our biggest hit of the offseason. But I think Hoff, Robinson, green, and McCray given he is healthy/back by big ten is a great core down in the trenches they are strong. And I think barwick gets in and turns heads. We don't have 6'5 DTs that we had with latham. However we have Sykes who was a highly coveted boy who went to Notre dame and he has been making a name for himself. Now onto this diamont argument. Does he have a huge arm. No. Did he in HS yes. What happened idk. Mechanics. Loss of strength somehow. Who knows. However, he has maybe thrown 10 deep balls in his career. He has been thrown into situations in which I believe he wasn't ready for. So let's throw those possibilities into the discussion as well instead of just saying oh he's trash he can't really develop. Yes I wish he was bigger, yes I wish he had more of a touch on his balls. But from what I've seen his short route timing and precision is there. I can hear the argument coming (but you have to be able to throw the deep ball in wilsons offense) yes and no to that point. I believe if diamont is named starter or has to step in if Lagow doesn't workout... I think Wilson has a gameplan to ground and pound.... Short dumps to quick passes 15-25 yards, then let him work with his feet. I don't think Wilson had a vision that would lead us to where we are today and honestly boys over the past couple of years we are RBU. We have depth and some big boys back there. Now back to the QBs. I love the size of Lagow. I like Cameron and what he has shown especially when he threw some zingers and darts in the PSU game (next red rocket) lol. However to the ARE QB situation the arguments are a little blurry because remember boys we had a scrambler back in Mid 2000's who had the hoosiers on a hype train. That man was Kellen Lewis before he got into shenanigans. I also think it's unfair to compare the likes of ARE and Diamont at this level. Yes the kid is cocky, has the Hollywood flair, but he hasn't been given the best scenarios to prove it in my opinion. That's all. I needed to Finally say something. One last thing. I think the koolaid is actually just sitting in... And Tom Allen is the energy and by in that IU has been looking for. He believes there is change coming and the boys they are eating it up and getting takeaways. Not turnovers but takeaways this year. This is the calm before the storm and I think we will be shocked with how we look in the first game. I mean that in a good way.

Luce is out.

[bhaggard89]

"More of a touch on his balls" hahahahaha


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[RBB89]

If Zander is our QB, we will not win 6 games.  He is a novelty.  Can't throw the ball downfield, which means teams can stack safeties.  He is okay as a relief pitcher when teams don't prepare for him, but when they do?   He's a bad option. And shame on the coaching staff.  Sudfeld was a senior a year ago, and that was no secret.  To go into this season even discussing Zander as our #1 QB is embarrassing.  He IS tough.  He IS fast.  But we had one of those for 4 years under Cam Cameron, never went to a bowl game with him; and he COULD throw the ball.   There's history here, folks.  Zander is a million miles short of Antwaan Randle El.  It's very easy to think this team is different and Zander will be just fine and the team will overcome his weaknesses.  But.....he's not.   It won't.

To win in the Big Ten, you need quality QB play, which means you need a guy who can throw it; or you need dominance in other areas; and Indiana doesn't have that.  Zander as the #1 QB is a horrible idea and an ominous sign for the football team.   He is what he is....a small, quick QB with very limited skills.  He's not going to be 6'4" with a Big Ten arm.  I hate the idea of him under center.

Well Lagow is going to be the starter, but thanks for the rant.

And did you seriously just "shame" the coaches for not just handing the starting job to someone and for actually considering an option that they see everyday? We've got good young QBs on the roster, but King is a RS freshman and Ramsey has been with the team for 3 weeks. So they brought in the #1 JUCO QB in the country, who is getting starter reps, like you want.

[RBB89]

And Indiana has had a bad defense for.....how long?   You're making an awfully shaky assumption that our defense will magically be decent.   Randle El was the best small, shifty quarterback in Big Ten history and perhaps in college football history and he could throw the ball.  Zander can't.    So....you're basically telling me Zander at QB is no big deal even if he's a weak passer because our defense is THAT much better than it was when Randle El was the quarterback, so this is a bowl team with Zander under center.

Is that basically right?   If so....I just have to shake my head and laugh at a pollyanna fan.  Reality is sometimes difficult to swallow.

What is your problem? There was literally nothing "Pollyanna" about his post. He just, correctly, pointed out that ARE was not the reason we didn't go to bowls.

And again, if you'd take 5 minutes away from your ranting, Lagow is getting most of the reps. Johns raved about him last week and said he's playing on another level right now. The signs that you and some others want to see are occurring, but you don't seem to want to hear it.

[akhosrof]

Yeah Johns all but named Lagow the starter. Encouraging to hear the progress he's made. Lagow could be a player who gets significantly better as the season goes on as he learns from game experience. The out of conference games will be important getting him ready for MSU.

His potential is just too much to pass up to not give him an extended shot. Man I am pumped!

[X-Hoosier]

Lagow should definitely be the starter. Diamont has proved two years in a row that he can't handle the spot.

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[ThompsonHoosier]

16 minutes ago, akhosrof said:

Yeah Johns all but named Lagow the starter. Encouraging to hear the progress he's made. Lagow could be a player who gets significantly better as the season goes on as he learns from game experience. The out of conference games will be important getting him ready for MSU.

His potential is just too much to pass up to not give him an extended shot. Man I am pumped!

At first I wasn't too excited about having out bye week be on the third week of the season but now I think it may actually help the team; especially Lagow and the defense. He will get some playing time but he will also have that week off to familiarize more with the receivers the playbook. The defense will also have that week to correct mistakes and become more familiar with the new scheme. 

[HoosierReb01]

18 hours ago, Old Friend said:

And Indiana has had a bad defense for.....how long?   You're making an awfully shaky assumption that our defense will magically be decent.   Randle El was the best small, shifty quarterback in Big Ten history and perhaps in college football history and he could throw the ball.  Zander can't.    So....you're basically telling me Zander at QB is no big deal even if he's a weak passer because our defense is THAT much better than it was when Randle El was the quarterback, so this is a bowl team with Zander under center.

Is that basically right?   If so....I just have to shake my head and laugh at a pollyanna fan.  Reality is sometimes difficult to swallow.

I think that's basically wrong, because that's pretty much not what he said. His statement was pretty simple, you seemed to have complicated it for the sake of argument. And your assertion that if what you said was correct, the he is a "pollyanna fan" is idiotic and unacceptable. Name calling is against board policy and leaving it as conditional as to whether someone agrees with you are not doesn't cut any mustard.

[HoosierReb01]

3 hours ago, X-Hoosier said:

Lagow should definitely be the starter. Diamont has proved two years in a row that he can't handle the spot.

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Actually he hasn't. He wasn't ready for it, that was no secret. He's not the second coming of Joe Montana, no doubt. He was always a project, and has always been a long shot to be the starter except as a matter of necessity. I don't know that I've seen very many freshmen QB's put into his spot who looked very good. Do I  want to see him as the starter? No, not really. I remember when I watched Ben Chappell the first time. He was in the game for one down because the starting QB had been shaken up and had to leave the game for the down. 1 Down, 1 Interception. Played in eleven games as a sophomore, unimpressive. Even as a junior, while he had a lot of numbers, he manage to throw 15 INTs.

 

Some of you guys need to learn that the staff works to develop players, and if the work at it too, what starts out pretty shaky can develop into a very solid player. Diamont may never start another game at IU, but the moaning and groaning about playing, or being the second stringer is ridiculous.