To end the year

[Yogi'sBicep]

What would it take for the remainder of the year to happily keep CTC?

[biteoftheapple]

For me, nothing will make me happy for TC to be the coach at IU. His team makeup varies wildly. His teams can be taken from the game plan, he has never put a consistent team on the court from year to year.

[Old Friend]

Happily?  It won't happen this year for me.  Crean has to win consistently.   And my definition of that is what Bo Ryan did at Wisconsin and what Tom Izzo does at Michigan State.  I don't think those are unreasonable expectations at Indiana.   Some look at national titles....which is just fine.  I tend to look at positioning...meaning, are we in position to win titles.  My personal focus is on Big Ten championships because I believe if we win those, or get close, everything else will fall into place.

 

For reference's sake, Ryan was at Wisconsin 14 seasons.  They never finished below 4th in the Big Ten, he made seven sweet 16's, three elite 8's, and two final fours.  He won 74% of his games, and Wisconsin was almost impossible to beat at home.   Izzo took over a depleted MSU team in 1995.  After two rebuilding seasons (like Crean had here), he has 8 Big Ten Championships in 19 seasons, they've been to 13 sweet 16's, six final fours, and 8 elite 8's.   If it can be done there.....I see no reason it can't be done and shouldn't be expected at Indiana.    Historically, our program is far superior to either of those, and Crean simply isn't in that class; and it won't change because of a few games in 2016.  

 

He's made his own bed.  A few games of success isn't going to change history or his resume.  It is what it is.  He's had his chances to build a consistent resume at Indiana over 8 years, and has not done so.  Thus, he's not good enough for Indiana long term, until he is.   For me, this season needs to end with a top 2-3 finish in the conference; we need to play at least on Saturday of the BTT, and we have to make the Sweet 16.  Anything short of that, and BECAUSE of his inconsistency, it won't be enough.  If we do those things, I think he's earned the right to show he can do it again.   I won't be happy until he keeps showing he can do it, and does so for 3-4 more years at Indiana.  At that point, I can make the case that I'm happy he's our coach.  Until then, I support the program and the kids; and I am tolerant of our coach because I don't think the solution is available right now.

[Brass Cannon]

The only way I would be content to keep him another year would be a NC. And I still wouldn't be happy.

[jmsgws]

Happily?  It won't happen this year for me.  Crean has to win consistently.   And my definition of that is what Bo Ryan did at Wisconsin and what Tom Izzo does at Michigan State.  I don't think those are unreasonable expectations at Indiana.

I am with you in regards to Crean, (to me it should be winning the B1G or making the FF to bring him back) but here is where I am troubled:

I don't think we will ever get the same consistency out of a team like Wisconsin, or MSU with the current coaching situation. So when or how does the Administration say enough is enough?  and in the next year or two do you make a move just to make a move?  The fan base seems to gell around the idea of Stevens as a coach, but no one else gets anyone excited.  Personally I don't see Stevens leaving the NBA any time soon. 


 

[BottomLine]

We are losing one senior starter this year.  Williams will be back unless he graduates in three years and becomes a senior transfer.  NBA camp (if he gets an invite) is going to tell him to go back and work on consistency.  Blackmon will be back.  Can't play NBA defense and has injury problems.  Bryant might leave but he needs a lot more seasoning.  Hartman and Johnson will be back.  We have young improving players on the bench and some good freshmen coming in.  The depth that Zeisloft and Bielfeldt give us off the bench can be replaced with kids that are potential starters down the road.  In short IU should be better next year than this year.  And, isn't that the kind of year to year consistency that MSU and Wisconsin have demonstrated.  The roster is finally starting to balance itself out.  Why would we blow all that up by changing the coach now?

[Brass Cannon]

We are losing one senior starter this year. Williams will be back unless he graduates in three years and becomes a senior transfer. NBA camp (if he gets an invite) is going to tell him to go back and work on consistency. Blackmon will be back. Can't play NBA defense and has injury problems. Bryant might leave but he needs a lot more seasoning. Hartman and Johnson will be back. We have young improving players on the bench and some good freshmen coming in. The depth that Zeisloft and Bielfeldt give us off the bench can be replaced with kids that are potential starters down the road. In short IU should be better next year than this year. And, isn't that the kind of year to year consistency that MSU and Wisconsin have demonstrated. The roster is finally starting to balance itself out. Why would we blow all that up by changing the coach now?

Because it's always next year with Crean and losing a senior PG isn't a little thing.

[Trish]

Not a big Tom Crean fan. If he got us to the final four this year, I'd be happy to have him back for another year.

No extension though..

[Old Friend]

We are losing one senior starter this year.  Williams will be back unless he graduates in three years and becomes a senior transfer.  NBA camp (if he gets an invite) is going to tell him to go back and work on consistency.  Blackmon will be back.  Can't play NBA defense and has injury problems.  Bryant might leave but he needs a lot more seasoning.  Hartman and Johnson will be back.  We have young improving players on the bench and some good freshmen coming in.  The depth that Zeisloft and Bielfeldt give us off the bench can be replaced with kids that are potential starters down the road.  In short IU should be better next year than this year.  And, isn't that the kind of year to year consistency that MSU and Wisconsin have demonstrated.  The roster is finally starting to balance itself out.  Why would we blow all that up by changing the coach now?

I don't know - given history - how anyone can comfortably say what our roster will look like next year.

[jmsgws]

 And, isn't that the kind of year to year consistency that MSU and Wisconsin have demonstrated.  The roster is finally starting to balance itself out.  Why would we blow all that up by changing the coach now?

Taking 8 years to balance the roster is just one of the things I see wrong with the picture of IU basketball. 

Like many things with Crean  it is way to early to say if we are even there for next year, though.  How many transfers will happen after the end of the season?

I think many IU fans are simply getting tired of the roller coaster ride

[BGleas]

I don't know about being happy about him returning, but if the question was what do I want to see down the stretch? I'd like us to go at least 4-2 over the last six, which I don't think is unreasonable, and I'd like to see us at least make the BTT Championship game. 

 

I think a 24-7 regular season, especially given the start in Maui/@Duke, and finishing top 3 in the Big Ten would be a fairly successful regular season.

[Brass Cannon]

I could see JBJ transferring lots of guards incoming and if Troy stays might have to try him at SG and OG at SF

[Brass Cannon]

no way Troy stays. Like Stu says, he outa here! Can't see JB2 sitting for a year someplace either but he damn sure better figure out how to play defense !

True. I feel bad for Troy because what's best is probably another year in college. But he is probably gone

[jmsgws]

. Actually I'd be surprised to see transfers at the end of the season. Not even MSB. I think he WANTS the IU diploma!

I am surprised almost every year by the transfers.  They honestly don't make a lot of sense to me.  Most of them don't have a chance of making the NBA, in which case a degree from a B1G school (at zero cost) is going to mean more to them in the long run.  Of course I do understand that a 50 year old thinks a WHOLE lot differently than an 18 or 19 year old. :)

and I know they are not technically transfers, but you are already counting on one (Troy) being gone.  and your comments lead me tobelieve you think that JB will be gone as well.

That is now 5 roster spots that will be turning over.  Not insurmountable, but that leaves Hartman as the lone Senior on the team for next year, I believe.

[Old Friend]

True. I feel bad for Troy because what's best is probably another year in college. But he is probably gone

Depends on who he listens to.  He is NBA athletic, but not close to NBA basketball ready. He's a D-Leaguer right now, and needs lots of work on ball handling, his jump shot, and he still needs to get stronger.  He's not a 2 because he can't shoot, which makes him a 3, but he's not good enough defensively to be a 3, and doesn't have enough range to stretch the defense like a normal "3."    (picture him matching up with LeBron, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, or Kevin Durant!)  He has a lot of work to do.  I think someone will draft him on potential alone, but a short career based on "upside" is not as good as a longer career with someone who's ready.   Troy has all the potential in the world, but he's not measurably better this season than last.   In fact, most of his stats are worse.  Fewer points, lower shooting percentages from all spots, fewer rebounds, more turnovers, fewer minutes played.  He has improved his blocks and steals by marginal percentages.    He has regressed a little, and the things that needed to improve after last season are the same things that need to improve now.   Oladipo set the example for how to get yourself NBA ready.  The formula is there.  Williams has clearly not followed it.

 

Here's the link to his stats in case anyone's interested :  http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/121077/

[BottomLine]

I think the new NBA system might change things considerably.  Invite about 50 athletes and evaluate them, without any threats that they will lose their eligibility.   If you are an underclassman and you don't get invited, that is a big NO for your future.  If you do get invited and get a negative report, go back to school.  The NCAA is getting tired of losing kids that should not go and the NBA is getting tired of drafting on potential.  Maybe the new system will work out, especially if it helps kids make the right choices.  Bottom line, I'm not sure any of our underclassmen get invited.  Blackmon is still in recovery.  Bryant still needs seasoning.  Can't imagine Williams playing in the NBA right now.  We are actually having a discussion about whether he should be starting for IU and the NBA is a whole new ball game.  I can see Williams looking for another school where his talents are better "appreciated", especially if he is on schedule to graduate after three years.  Can you imaging next year being "Troy's" team? The maturity would be outstanding (sarcasm).   I guess I'm one of those glass half full guys but I like the way the pieces are coming together for next year.  It's Crean's team.  Let him finish the job.  If he screws it up, then we will see what happens.  BTW losing Yogi is a big deal but I think we will do fine at PG next year.  Either the kid from Pitt, Newkirk, gets the spot or it goes to some hot show freshman.

[maxwell]

 BTW losing Yogi is a big deal but I think we will do fine at PG next year.  Either the kid from Pitt, Newkirk, gets the spot or it goes to some hot show freshman.

I'm curious. Have you or anyone else heard anything as to how Newkirk is doing in practice?

[HoosierAloha]

JBJ hasn't played at all the second semester.  Is it possible he transfers and plays the second semester for a new team?  How is his recovery going and could his recovery time go into the start of next season?

[rebelhoosier848891]

To happily keep CTC for another year---I want to see improvement in our post-season play---like making the final 8 or better.

[Uspshoosier]

JBJ hasn't played at all the second semester. Is it possible he transfers and plays the second semester for a new team? How is his recovery going and could his recovery time go into the start of next season?

I don't see that happening. If he was to transfer why sit on the bench and being engaged during this second semester. He was on the pregame coverage talking with don talking about us needed this win. In my opinion if he were to transfer and wasn't happy he wouldn't be on the bench since this surgery