GOP Debate...

[MikeRoberts 7,025]

Trump is only there to make the other Republican candidates look better...I'm usually not into politics but if Trump ever won, I would lose all hope in this country. Now that's just my opinion, but I would literally pick up my bags and move somewhere else.

it will be sad to lose you but I think this App is accessible from outside the US so I wish you luck

[Alford Bailey 12,386]

Not turning this a different way but this is just my opinion and ask that you respect it. I'm a very big christian, and believe that is what America lacks. Let me continue by saying it shouldn't be forced, but I feel its true core values are really missing. People get offended by the 10 Commandments, but I don't get it. Even if you don't believe, it has straight to the point morals that people need to live by. Don't kill, adultery, honor your parents, steal, etc. I know people disagree and that's fine, but morals are derived from beliefs, whether it be faith based or how you were raised. To me, christianity is more than a religion, it set a solid foundation for people to live by. 

 

I'm also one of those wacko Christians that feels christianity should be America's religion. There's always a big debate about this country being found on Christianity, but either way it adopted the christian faith/morals. Since we have completely gone away from it, this country keeps getting worse. I know most don't share my views, and that's fine, but I do ask that you respect it like I have respected everyone else's. :)

Main thing, we need to make America back to what it once was. Go USA and if you don't like it, too bad ;)

Exactly. Our country is doing what the Jews did in the old testament. God blessed, times have been good. Then we slowly think it was us not God. We've accepted sin and turned our backs on God. It didn't turn out well for the Jews of that time and won't for us as well.

[Bryan Medema 1,488]

Vaguely on topic- One of the main arguments against the 10 Commandments is that it distinctly says "You shall keep no other God" which is a strict endorsement of one religion over others.

[Stuhoo 80,909]

Not turning this a different way but this is just my opinion and ask that you respect it. I'm a very big christian, and believe that is what America lacks. Let me continue by saying it shouldn't be forced, but I feel its true core values are really missing. People get offended by the 10 Commandments, but I don't get it. Even if you don't believe, it has straight to the point morals that people need to live by. Don't kill, adultery, honor your parents, steal, etc. I know people disagree and that's fine, but morals are derived from beliefs, whether it be faith based or how you were raised. To me, christianity is more than a religion, it set a solid foundation for people to live by. 

 

I'm also one of those wacko Christians that feels christianity should be America's religion. There's always a big debate about this country being found on Christianity, but either way it adopted the christian faith/morals. Since we have completely gone away from it, this country keeps getting worse. I know most don't share my views, and that's fine, but I do ask that you respect it like I have respected everyone else's. :)

Main thing, we need to make America back to what it once was. Go USA and if you don't like it, too bad ;)

 

Wow...as always Jaybob, you express your point of view respectfully and you're more than allowed to have it, but I find that concept more than a bit troubling.

 

Are you saying that if you had your way, government sponsored events would require that Americans of other religious persuasions participate and adhere to a religion that is not their own? THAT concept is why nations that allow government to impose religious will, like Saudi Arabia, kinda suck. Moreover, our country that was "found(ed) on Christiantity" and originally "adopted the Christian faith/morals" was also originally founded with such themes as slavery, subjegation of women, killing of those deemed "witches" by clergy, abuse of homosexuals, government approved exclusion of those who were of a diffferent skin color, ancestry, and religious background, and much more.  

 

That is NOT an indictment of Christianity or our nation's evolution; in fact it is an endorsement of the United States constitution's genius, and the exceptionalism of Americans that has enabled this country's evolution.

 

I know that you're a good bit younger than me, but if you care to look at this nation's quality of life and character in, say 50 year increments, the United States is most certainly NOT falling apart. Not on a human rights level; not on a quality of life level; and not on a personal security and longevity of life level. Any empirical assessment makes it very hard to reach any other conclusion. Heck, there are even more evangelical Christians than ever if that's your passion!

 

In my opinion, the primary component of this culture of negativity is the extraordinary flow of information about our problems, which helps pessimism to flourish. 50 years ago a pedophile priest would have been covered for, and potentially promoted. Now, he's a depressing headline, but he's jailed. And that's a good thing.

 

Blame the computer age, not the deterioration of America.

[Alford Bailey 12,386]

Why is Trump appealing? He wins. And, after 16 years of Bush and Obama telling us we had to have the government do it for us in one way or another he says no. It is still relatively easy to win in this country. I mean, if the average american for example takes the money they spend on pop and cigarettes and invests it in say Coke stock they win after a period of time. It takes sacrifice. There is no free lunch. Trump is successful in the real world. Our country sorely needs such an example.

[JaybobHoosier 11,843]

Wow...as always Jaybob, you express your point of view respectfully and you're more than allowed to have it, but I find that concept more than a bit troubling.

Are you saying that if you had your way, government sponsored events would require that Americans of other religious persuasions participate and adhere to a religion that is not their own? THAT concept is why nations that allow government to impose religious will, like Saudi Arabia, kinda suck. Moreover, our country that was "found(ed) on Christiantity" and originally "adopted the Christian faith/morals" was also originally founded with such themes as slavery, subjegation of women, killing of those deemed "witches" by clergy, abuse of homosexuals, government approved exclusion of those who were of a diffferent skin color, ancestry, and religious background, and much more.

That is NOT an indictment of Christianity or our nation's evolution; in fact it is an endorsement of the United States constitution's genius, and the exceptionalism of Americans that has enabled this country's evolution.

I know that you're a good bit younger than me, but if you care to look at this nation's quality of life and character in, say 50 year increments, the United States is most certainly NOT falling apart. Not on a human rights level; not on a quality of life level; and not on a personal security and longevity of life level. Any empirical assessment makes it very hard to reach any other conclusion. Heck, there are even more evangelical Christians than ever if that's your passion!

In my opinion, the primary component of this culture of negativity is the extraordinary flow of information about our problems, which helps pessimism to flourish. 50 years ago a pedophile priest would have been covered for, and potentially promoted. Now, he's a depressing headline, but he's jailed. And that's a good thing.

Blame the computer age, not the deterioration of America.

I'm on my phone and wish I had a mooning emoji. Lol.

My stance is why not keep it like it was originally thought? Freedom of religion, but the countries view was Christian based. I know I'm different, right ;) lol? Just my view and I know it's not popular.

Stu, you know I still love you ;)

[Alford Bailey 12,386]

Wow...as always Jaybob, you express your point of view respectfully and you're more than allowed to have it, but I find that concept more than a bit troubling.

 

Are you saying that if you had your way, government sponsored events would require that Americans of other religious persuasions participate and adhere to a religion that is not their own? THAT concept is why nations that allow government to impose religious will, like Saudi Arabia, kinda suck. Moreover, our country that was "found(ed) on Christiantity" and originally "adopted the Christian faith/morals" was also originally founded with such themes as slavery, subjegation of women, killing of those deemed "witches" by clergy, abuse of homosexuals, government approved exclusion of those who were of a diffferent skin color, ancestry, and religious background, and much more.  

 

That is NOT an indictment of Christianity or our nation's evolution; in fact it is an endorsement of the United States constitution's genius, and the exceptionalism of Americans that has enabled this country's evolution.

 

I know that you're a good bit younger than me, but if you care to look at this nation's quality of life and character in, say 50 year increments, the United States is most certainly NOT falling apart. Not on a human rights level; not on a quality of life level; and not on a personal security and longevity of life level. Any empirical assessment makes it very hard to reach any other conclusion. Heck, there's even more evangelical Christians than ever if that's your passion!

 

In my opinion, the primary component of this culture of negativity is the extraordinary flow of information about our problems, which helps pessimism to flourish. 50 years ago a pedophile priest would have been covered for, and potentially promoted. Now, he's a depressing headline, but he's jailed. And that's a good thing.

 

Blame the computer age, not the deterioration of America.

Whether we admit it or not Christianity has been a fantastic moral compass for this country to be successful. We are losing that. Look at China with no Christian influence. Human suffering on a massive scale. Or India or the Middle East where they live like they did 2000 years ago. We are allowing those influences to take hold in our country in the name of tolerance.

[Alford Bailey 12,386]

I'm on my phone and wish I had a mooning emoji. Lol.

My stance is why not keep it like it was originally thought? Freedom of religion, but the countries view was Christian based. I know I'm different, right ;) lol? Just my view and I know it's not popular.

Stu, you know I still love you ;)

In this country at this time different is good. If I find myself doing what everybody else is doing its time to start thinking.

[Stuhoo 80,909]

. Maybe just maybe it's time to run this country like a business. YES!   Makes sense to this guy. The politicians have made a complete mess of it. YES!! Hell, give Donald his shot! NOT SURE..WISH IT WAS MARK CUBAN!!!

[Naturalhoosier 15,434]

A lot of the social economic concerns of our culture is largely do to the wealth of info at our fingertips as Stu stated. Think 50-60 yrs ago (or beyond), hell, look at even 20 years ago. Community engagement was necessary to function. It brought groups together, spread news, neighbors would convene to discuss leadership concerns or just the wind blowing out of the north. There was a sense of community.

That sense of community has been lost on the vast majority of Americans. We have lost that sense of community culture and have instead taken a me-first approach. That's a detriment to society and our American culture.

[Stuhoo 80,909]

A lot of the social economic concerns of our culture is largely do to the wealth of info at our fingertips as Stu stated. Think 50-60 yrs ago (or beyond), hell, look at even 20 years ago. Community engagement was necessary to function. It brought groups together, spread news, neighbors would convene to discuss leadership concerns or just the wind blowing out of the north. There was a sense of community.

That sense of community has been lost on the vast majority of Americans. We have lost that sense of community culture and have instead taken a me-first approach. That's a detriment to society and our American culture.

 

Lack of community.

 

Abundance of mis-information on the internet.

 

= sense of pessimism

 

Heck, look at how it affected the Kyrie Irving and Theo Pinson recruitments! ( :D )

[Defenserocks28 393]

Wow...as always Jaybob, you express your point of view respectfully and you're more than allowed to have it, but I find that concept more than a bit troubling.

 

Are you saying that if you had your way, government sponsored events would require that Americans of other religious persuasions participate and adhere to a religion that is not their own? THAT concept is why nations that allow government to impose religious will, like Saudi Arabia, kinda suck. Moreover, our country that was "found(ed) on Christiantity" and originally "adopted the Christian faith/morals" was also originally founded with such themes as slavery, subjegation of women, killing of those deemed "witches" by clergy, abuse of homosexuals, government approved exclusion of those who were of a diffferent skin color, ancestry, and religious background, and much more.  

 

That is NOT an indictment of Christianity or our nation's evolution; in fact it is an endorsement of the United States constitution's genius, and the exceptionalism of Americans that has enabled this country's evolution.

 

I know that you're a good bit younger than me, but if you care to look at this nation's quality of life and character in, say 50 year increments, the United States is most certainly NOT falling apart. Not on a human rights level; not on a quality of life level; and not on a personal security and longevity of life level. Any empirical assessment makes it very hard to reach any other conclusion. Heck, there are even more evangelical Christians than ever if that's your passion!

 

In my opinion, the primary component of this culture of negativity is the extraordinary flow of information about our problems, which helps pessimism to flourish. 50 years ago a pedophile priest would have been covered for, and potentially promoted. Now, he's a depressing headline, but he's jailed. And that's a good thing.

 

Blame the computer age, not the deterioration of America.

This X 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Stu, I'm glad you showed up. I feel like we have similar enough views in a lot of this that you are a good replacement for me. Your first post was right on the money.

 

Why is Trump appealing? He wins. And, after 16 years of Bush and Obama telling us we had to have the government do it for us in one way or another he says no. It is still relatively easy to win in this country. I mean, if the average american for example takes the money they spend on pop and cigarettes and invests it in say Coke stock they win after a period of time. It takes sacrifice. There is no free lunch. Trump is successful in the real world. Our country sorely needs such an example.

 

But he doesn't, he just publicizes his wins and is able to hide his losses. He absolutely had a free lunch. He had rich parents who gave him millions of dollars to invest how he wanted and didn't have to shoulder any of the risk of losing that money. When he did lose money and have businesses he ran or purchased go bankrupt, there was always more money. This is not a model for any other Americans, it's a model for a very select group. Omar and Bubbles can't just start investing in Coke, there are dozens of artificial social, legal, and economic barriers preventing them from doing so. For the most part, once you sink into poverty it's exceedingly rare to ever lift out of it. And if you have "extra" money, you can't afford the risk of losing it. Whether you consider them average Americans or not is the real question.

Whether we admit it or not Christianity has been a fantastic moral compass for this country to be successful. We are losing that. Look at China with no Christian influence. Human suffering on a massive scale. Or India or the Middle East where they live like they did 2000 years ago. We are allowing those influences to take hold in our country in the name of tolerance.

 

And look at the countries without Christian influence that are successful (Japan, South Korea). It's a fallacy to find failed countries, pick one aspect of them, and declare their failure to be part of that aspect. And India and the Middle East both have amazing conditions if you aren't in the lowest classes. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain? All have some of the lowest murder rates in the world and very few Christians. Heck, even India you're like 130% more likely to be murdered in the US than in India. Venezuela is 98% Christian and has a murder rate 11 times worse than the US and nearly 100 times worse than the Middle Eastern countries I just listed. It isn't as simple as saying things would be better if we just had more Christians. 

. Maybe just maybe it's time to run this country like a business. Makes sense to this guy. The politicians have made a complete mess of it. Hell, give Donald his shot!

But the goals and abilities of a business are totally different than those of a country. A business exists to maximize profit and benefit particular groups of people. A government exists to maintain order, ensure certain rights for all people, and undertake unprofitable tasks because no business would touch them. You think a government run like the business would have created the interstate system? NASA? 90% of the Military? Those are money sinks with no benefit to the "business" aspects of the government. If Coke paid over 2 millions active and reserve employees to stay trained and ready just in case they ever needed them, the CEO would be fired within 5 days. Government exists because private contracts and business simply can't do all the things they do. 

[Alford Bailey 12,386]

Stu, I'm glad you showed up. I feel like we have similar enough views in a lot of this that you are a good replacement for me. Your first post was right on the money.

 

 

But he doesn't, he just publicizes his wins and is able to hide his losses. He absolutely had a free lunch. He had rich parents who gave him millions of dollars to invest how he wanted and didn't have to shoulder any of the risk of losing that money. When he did lose money and have businesses he ran or purchased go bankrupt, there was always more money. This is not a model for any other Americans, it's a model for a very select group. Omar and Bubbles can't just start investing in Coke, there are dozens of artificial social, legal, and economic barriers preventing them from doing so. For the most part, once you sink into poverty it's exceedingly rare to ever lift out of it. And if you have "extra" money, you can't afford the risk of losing it. Whether you consider them average Americans or not is the real question.

 

And look at the countries without Christian influence that are successful (Japan, South Korea). It's a fallacy to find failed countries, pick one aspect of them, and declare their failure to be part of that aspect. And India and the Middle East both have amazing conditions if you aren't in the lowest classes. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain? All have some of the lowest murder rates in the world and very few Christians. Venezuela is 98% Christian and has a murder rate 11 times worse than the US and nearly 100 times worse than the Middle Eastern countries I just listed. It isn't as simple as saying things would be better if we just had more Christians. 

But the goals and abilities of a business are totally different than those of a country. A business exists to maximize profit and benefit particular groups of people. A government exists to maintain order, ensure certain rights for all people, and undertake unprofitable tasks because no business would touch them. You think a government run like the business would have created the interstate system? NASA? 90% of the Military? Those are money sinks with no benefit to the "business" aspects of the government. If Coke paid over 2 millions active and reserve employees to stay trained and ready just in case they ever needed them, the CEO would be fired within 5 days. Government exists because private contracts and business simply can't do all the things they do. 

Japan and S. Korea exist today because of America. You are arguing just for the sake of arguing now.

[Bryan Medema 1,488]

. Maybe The Donald would make Cuban his VP.

Cuban has said he'd run against the Donald as a Democrat. They apparently do not like each other.

[Hovadipo 56,266]

Cuban has said he'd run against the Donald as a Democrat. They apparently do not like each other.

Can we just stop the whole discussion here and imagine a presidential race between these two? Now THAT would make politics interesting.

[Stuhoo 80,909]

Back to the GOP debate:

 

Continue to debate as you care to, but I'm telling y'all, the candidate who will gain the most traction/momentum tonight will be:

 

John Kasich.

[jmsgws 2,181]

You are arguing just for the sake of arguing now.

Well, at least here, we can argue with each other and keep it civil.  :) 

I still find it hard to believe this thread has gone to 13 pages, and hasn't been shut down!

[Stuhoo 80,909]

Can we just stop the whole discussion here and imagine a presidential race between these two? Now THAT would make politics interesting.

 

It'd be like a UK  - IU slugfest.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Japan and S. Korea exist today because of America. You are arguing just for the sake of arguing now.

... So? What does that have to do at all with a countries ability to be successful without being founded on Christianity? Can you address my points instead of deflecting?

 

Yeah, you caught me. I typed a long and researched response to you and others because I wanted to stay late at work to make up for the time I wasn't billing. If I just wanted to argue, I could do so and get paid for it.

 

Edit: Hong Kong? Qatar? Singapore? Brunei? The Netherlands? UAE? Israel? Oman? Czech Republic? All top GDP countries. All minimally Christian.

 

The Congo? Zimbabwe? Burundi? Libera? Central African Republic? Mozambique? Haiti? Uganda? Rwanda? All bottom tier countries with majority Christian populations.