GOP Debate...

[Bryan Medema 1,488]

Politics aside (that is to say specific beliefs, policies, etc) the biggest issue with the majority of the field is that none of them look like they will be effective executives. We (Americans) tend to dramatically overestimate the actual powers of the presidency which is best wielded by a certain type of personality. The best comparison for most of the firebrand types is LBJ, but none of them have his political finesse. Clinton is probably the only candidate who understand how to maneuver Congress, but other issues would mire her.

TLDNR- We have a bunch of campaigners and legislatures but no proper executives.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

What's wrong with bombing Canada? South Park had it right ;) lol

 

Without Canada, people would see that America is balding! We need that hat!

 

Politics aside (that is to say specific beliefs, policies, etc) the biggest issue with the majority of the field is that none of them look like they will be effective executives. We (Americans) tend to dramatically overestimate the actual powers of the presidency which is best wielded by a certain type of personality. The best comparison for most of the firebrand types is LBJ, but none of them have his political finesse. Clinton is probably the only candidate who understand how to maneuver Congress, but other issues would mire her.

TLDNR- We have a bunch of campaigners and legislatures but no proper executives.

I agree. I think this is one of the biggest problems. Heck, this is one my biggest problems with people like Trump or Carson. You're a loon? Fine. If we want a loon president then that's just how the cookie crumbles. But, the way they talk about President Obama and the blame they place on him is totally out of proportion with his ability to act. They have absolutely no understanding of the role of the executive and the design of our constitutional government with limited powers. No, guys, you do have to obey the Supreme Court when it says gay marriage is legal, you don't have a legal precedent as the President to just ignore decisions you don't like (looking at you Carson). No, it's pretty unlikely President Obama is going to use the economic situation in the country to intentionally run the country into further debt for a communist takeover. He doesn't even set the budget. (You again Carson!).

 

This is a bigger problem on the far right than the far left. But, only because we've had a democrat president for the last 7 years that is so hated by the right-wing. They've spent so long making Obama into this boogie man who is coming to use an executive order to have FEMA take their guns and shoot them in a camp with the trillions of bullets they purchased that they started to believe their own rhetoric. They believe the President maybe really does have the power to do that. After all, Putin does! 

 

They show a lack of even a high school civics level of understanding and seem to think when they come to power, they'll have all the power that Obama does in their fantasies. It's horrifying to think someone like that might be serious and might be President. 

[Stuhoo 80,909]

Politics aside (that is to say specific beliefs, policies, etc) the biggest issue with the majority of the field is that none of them look like they will be effective executives. We (Americans) tend to dramatically overestimate the actual powers of the presidency which is best wielded by a certain type of personality.
TLDNR- We have a bunch of campaigners and legislatures but no proper executives.

 

^^This^^

 

In my life we've had two Presidents who were remarkably similar policy wise (yes, really), and both had the ability to manuever effectively as chief executives to effect gradual, lasting, bi-partisan, domestic and international successes:

 

Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton.

[JSHoosier 20,266]

I'm reminded of a Robin Williams joke "a moderate conservative, that's like a Volvo with a gun rack; you don't find many of them"

 

My father was a Republican and started voted Democrat, largely because of Reagan.

[jmsgws 2,181]

Reagan is actually the man who got me following politics and engaged.  He helped foster the patriotism that led me to join the Army, and try and stay informed as a voter. 

He was far from perfect, but to me he was the true definition of a leader.  He was able to share his vision, and get people to buy in.  He also showed politicians that you can admit you made a mistake.  He did it right after the first major tax cut, then when he realized he cut to much he started raising taxes again.  I guess it was a simpler time, because he would be raked over the coals today.  :(

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Reagan is actually the man who got me following politics and engaged. He helped foster the patriotism that led me to join the Army, and try and stay informed as a voter.

He was far from perfect, but to me he was the true definition of a leader. He was able to share his vision, and get people to buy in. He also showed politicians that you can admit you made a mistake. He did it right after the first major tax cut, then when he realized he cut to much he started raising taxes again. I guess it was a simpler time, because he would be raked over the coals today. :(

It's true. The real Reagan was a good President. The best since Eisenhower. He would be destroyed by the modern GOP. They would compare him to their Reagan caricature and he would be called a liberal tool who is a Republican in name only.

[Bryan Medema 1,488]

Pretty amusing that you bring up Reagan given that I consider him a prime example of a successful executive (success defined as pushing your agenda regardless of impact) despite my belief that the long-reaching effects of the war on drugs will destroy his legacy. I see a successful president as fitting either his or Johnson's mold (charmingly charismatic versus incredible political talent) and, frankly, I don't see any in the field with those kinds of credentials. The more brash (and inexperienced) members of the field will be absolutely steamrolled by congress while the few politically savvy candidates (i.e. Clinton, Sanders) lack the necessary public charm to turn opinions. 

[JSHoosier 20,266]

Reagan is actually the man who got me following politics and engaged.  He helped foster the patriotism that led me to join the Army, and try and stay informed as a voter. 

He was far from perfect, but to me he was the true definition of a leader.  He was able to share his vision, and get people to buy in.  He also showed politicians that you can admit you made a mistake.  He did it right after the first major tax cut, then when he realized he cut to much he started raising taxes again.  I guess it was a simpler time, because he would be raked over the coals today.  :(

Oh the modern GOP is completely off the political deep end, I can agree with that one.

[Josh 12,647]

Oh the modern GOP is completely off the political deep end, I can agree with that one.

This is the truth.  They need to listen to the people instead of preaching their values to them.  Eventually they need to look at the fact that they haven't won the popular vote in 16 years.  Instead of telling us why we're wrong for not voting for you, try to listen and respond.  Adapt and adjust.

 

The democrats have issues as well.  Lack of vision, blaming others for shortcomings, etc.

 

That's why outsiders are ruling the primaries.  Time to change things up.

[jmsgws 2,181]

 

That's why outsiders are ruling the primaries.  Time to change things up.

I just wish the outsiders weren't complete whackos!

[Hoosierfan2017 21,470]

Trump-Cruz ticket is starting to grow with me.

I've hopped on that bandwagon already. I got my "Make America Great Again" hat ordered last night, but I think I'm more excited to see the reactions I get from it than to actually wear it. Cruz would probably be the better president but he doesn't have the charisma needed to win it.

[Alford Bailey 12,386]

^^This^^

 

In my life we've had two Presidents who were remarkably similar policy wise (yes, really), and both had the ability to manuever effectively as chief executives to effect gradual, lasting, bi-partisan, domestic and international successes:

 

Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton.

The Bill Clinton of the 90s would be a right wing republican today.

[Bryan Medema 1,488]

I've hopped on that bandwagon already. I got my "Make America Great Again" hat ordered last night, but I think I'm more excited to see the reactions I get from it than to actually wear it. Cruz would probably be the better president but he doesn't have the charisma needed to win it.

 

 

I already had to publish an 8-page refute to Trump's candidacy but the most important aspect was:

 

DONT STEAL YOUR SLOGAN FROM THE ONLY PRESIDENT TO BE FORCED TO RESIGN

[OliviaPope40 6,520]

Where is the drinking game for tomorrow night?

Edited September 16, 2015 by OliviaPope40

[Alford Bailey 12,386]

The Republican party has not made a hard right turn in their views. They have been remarkably consistent in my life time. The population has moved way left in wanting handouts from the government and a real lack of any moral convictions. I'd rather stand by my principles and lose than promise anything to anybody like the Dems. Any of these guys would at least slow the push towards complete socialism which is where we are headed.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

The Republican party has not made a hard right turn in their views. They have been remarkably consistent in my life time. The population has moved way left in wanting handouts from the government and a real lack of any moral convictions. I'd rather stand by my principles and lose than promise anything to anybody like the Dems. Any of these guys would at least slow the push towards complete socialism which is where we are headed.

Some say wanting to be left alone by the government is a "lack of any moral convictions", I say it's a right. If I want to smoke pot or drink on Sunday or marry a dude or own a gun that will make a robber crap his pants, what business is it of the governments?

 

And let's not pretend the Republican party doesn't hand out as much or more. They just hand it out to different people or in different ways. A corn subsidy is a handout as much as the earned income tax credit.

 

Maybe the party hasn't moved right, but they've gone crazy. Again, the presidential candidates leading the polls previously indicated the current President is a foreign born Nazi who is controlling the country through his executive power. That's crazy. It would even be crazy if 90% of the expanded federal executive power wasn't derived from the actions of Dick Cheney.

 

Eisenhower and Reagan would be laughed out of this Republican Party. Nixon would be a Democrat. The country moving left doesn't explain that.

[JaybobHoosier 11,843]

Not turning this a different way but this is just my opinion and ask that you respect it. I'm a very big christian, and believe that is what America lacks. Let me continue by saying it shouldn't be forced, but I feel its true core values are really missing. People get offended by the 10 Commandments, but I don't get it. Even if you don't believe, it has straight to the point morals that people need to live by. Don't kill, adultery, honor your parents, steal, etc. I know people disagree and that's fine, but morals are derived from beliefs, whether it be faith based or how you were raised. To me, christianity is more than a religion, it set a solid foundation for people to live by. 

 

I'm also one of those wacko Christians that feels christianity should be America's religion. There's always a big debate about this country being found on Christianity, but either way it adopted the christian faith/morals. Since we have completely gone away from it, this country keeps getting worse. I know most don't share my views, and that's fine, but I do ask that you respect it like I have respected everyone else's. :)

Main thing, we need to make America back to what it once was. Go USA and if you don't like it, too bad ;)

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Not turning this a different way but this is just my opinion and ask that you respect it. I'm a very big christian, and believe that is what America lacks. Let me continue by saying it shouldn't be forced, but I feel its true core values are really missing. People get offended by the 10 Commandments, but I don't get it. Even if you don't believe, it has straight to the point morals that people need to live by. Don't kill, adultery, honor your parents, steal, etc. I know people disagree and that's fine, but morals are derived from beliefs, whether it be faith based or how you were raised. To me, christianity is more than a religion, it set a solid foundation for people to live by. 

 

I'm also one of those wacko Christians that feels christianity should be America's religion. There's always a big debate about this country being found on Christianity, but either way it adopted the christian faith/morals. Since we have completely gone away from it, this country keeps getting worse. I know most don't share my views, and that's fine, but I do ask that you respect it like I have respected everyone else's. :)

Main thing, we need to make America back to what it once was. Go USA and if you don't like it, too bad ;)

For the record, they're very rarely offended by the 10 Commandments themselves, they're offended by their placement as symbols of religion with a Constitutional interpretation that the government shouldn't be playing favorites. Not that that changes the point.

 

But, people don't murder people because they don't have the right beliefs. They murder people for complex social and economic reasons. I'll bet most of South Chicago still goes to church with their moms on Sunday. Doesn't seem to stop them from killing each other. No amount of belief can break a cycle of violence like that. 

[JaybobHoosier 11,843]

For the record, they're very rarely offended by the 10 Commandments themselves, they're offended by their placement as symbols of religion with a Constitutional interpretation that the government shouldn't be playing favorites. Not that that changes the point.

But, people don't murder people because they don't have the right beliefs. They murder people for complex social and economic reasons. I'll bet most of South Chicago still goes to church with their moms on Sunday. Doesn't seem to stop them from killing each other. No amount of belief can break a cycle of violence like that.

I do disagree somewhat, but understand. As you can tell, my views are towards Christianity being more involved with this country and even government. I know it's not the popular one, I'm cool with that.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

I do disagree somewhat, but understand. As you can tell, my views are towards Christianity being more involved with this country and even government. I know it's not the popular one, I'm cool with that.

Part of the problem there, (that I'm not going to get super into) is the poor state of the Church in the country. The version of Christianity practiced by many Christians today would have HIM overturning tables at Pat Robertson's studio. Going to church to punch your card and get your credit so you can go to heaven isn't Christianity and it isn't going to make America better. And the people who make it in politics are not the ones who follow the model of CHRIST. So, inevitably politicians at the highest levels can't govern within actual Christian beliefs because they don't really have them. It's pretend and worthless, a chasing after the wind. Even Abraham couldn't find even just 5 righteous people in the top levels of the US Federal Government.