Stan and Troy

[Hovadipo 55,102]

I wish the comparisons between Vic and any other IU player would stop, please. Vic is totally unique.

But ATHLETIC!

[TheStillman 991]

I wish the comparisons between Vic and any other IU player would stop, please. Vic is totally unique.

Vic made a lot of selfish, out of control plays his sophomore year due to being aggressive and fixed that to an extent his junior year. He's a recent example so why is it not apt when discussing a player who does the same thing? Not saying they're the same player but it's an example of someone under Crean fixing the issue we have with a player.

[KingPG21 6,583]

Vic made a lot of selfish, out of control plays his sophomore year due to being aggressive and fixed that to an extent his junior year. He's a recent example so why is it not apt when discussing a player who does the same thing? Not saying they're the same player but it's an example of someone under Crean fixing the issue we have with a player.

Because it isn't fair to either party to constantly compare them to each other. Vic carved his legacy at IU, we shouldn't be trying to compare every single raw athlete we bring in to Vic. Let them carve their own legacy here rather than constantly being compared to Vic

[TheStillman 991]

Because it isn't fair to either party to constantly compare them to each other. Vic carved his legacy at IU, we shouldn't be trying to compare every single raw athlete we bring in to Vic. Let them carve their own legacy here rather than constantly being compared to Vic

Fair enough. I'm certainly not going to look back on Troy's career and say well he was no good because he didn't meet Vic's expectations. I do agree it is not a perfect comparison.

I think the way I used it last night is fair which is to get those with pitchforks against Troy off his back. He's still only 1.3 years out of 4 into his career. He plays aggressive and makes mistakes, albeit less than he did as a freshman. Most players this is the case and they're not ready made. As a program to give up on a Troy now and in turn missing out on what he can become junior and senior year would be crazy.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Vic made a lot of selfish, out of control plays his sophomore year due to being aggressive and fixed that to an extent his junior year. He's a recent example so why is it not apt when discussing a player who does the same thing? Not saying they're the same player but it's an example of someone under Crean fixing the issue we have with a player.

You're right. There are plenty of similarities, but no one should be compared to Vic for a few reasons:

1) Vic's work ethic was legendary. I can't say that there aren't others that have worked as hard, but we know that he gave it his all during his time here.

2) Vic was a big part of something truly special. He was a major piece in raising Indiana back into the national spotlight. He had a ton of help from great players around him, but he and Cody became the poster children of our revitalization. His raw emotion and commitment to the program was on display every single day.

3) Vic was a storybook underdog. He wasn't ranked poorly, but he was also spurned by a ton of the good and great programs. He took himself from a overlooked high schooler to the number two pick in the NBA draft, and second in Rookie of the Year voting.

4) Vic was a nasty athlete and all around ball player. To compare anyone to him is unfair, as he may be one of the greatest all around players, other than Gordon, to play at IU in the past 10 or so years. Comparing high schoolers and underperforming underclassmen is unrealistic as very few have the ability, will, and potential to reach Vic's level.

5) The comparison to Vic is overused. Crean obviously makes it a lot because it sells to recruits. I get that. But fans like to compare anyone with hops and a nasty dunk in their highlight tape to Vic. Honestly, a lot of the kids receiving these comparisons are a heck of a lot better than Vic was during his recruitment.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Fair enough. I'm certainly not going to look back on Troy's career and say well he was no good because he didn't meet Vic's expectations. I do agree it is not a perfect comparison.

I think the way I used it last night is fair which is to get those with pitchforks against Troy off his back. He's still only 1.3 years out of 4 into his career. He plays aggressive and makes mistakes, albeit less than he did as a freshman. Most players this is the case and they're not ready made. As a program to give up on a Troy now and in turn missing out on what he can become junior and senior year would be crazy.

Comparing their season stats is completely valid, but if the comparison is used to promote the idea that Troy could have the same potential as Vic is a fallacy.

I think you were trying to say that you don't get all the hate on troy when his stats are so similar to Vic's, which is also very fair. You obviously can see this, but the fans cut Vic more slack because he wasn't a highly touted recruit and stayed out of trouble.

[Myrmidon76 614]

Disagree about the assessment of heart. Its a very real thing that players/teams/coaches look for and promote. Its just as important as rebounds or assists. The game-face reference, while I understand where its going in terms of being subjective, is a poor example. I, personally, don't have a clue what a game face is, nor can it be coached. However, heart can be. If you need examples, watch the Olympics, watch our 81 squad, our 87 squad, our 02 squad. I do agree that we shouldn't write Troy off because he makes selfish plays. Being selfish or playing hero ball or whatever you want to call it can be fixed. There are examples of Oladipo being selfish, but he is also a perfect example of a guy playing with heart. The game mattered to him. Every single aspect. Preparation, dedication, work ethic, off the court involvement. Troy can be so much more if he chooses it. I hope he does. That being said, I have completely run out of explanations for Stan. He seems like a good kid, but like Remy...he just can't save himself from...himself.

[TheStillman 991]

Comparing their season stats is completely valid, but if the comparison is used to promote the idea that Troy could have the same potential as Vic is a fallacy.

I think you were trying to say that you don't get all the hate on troy when his stats are so similar to Vic's, which is also very fair. You obviously can see this, but the fans cut Vic more slack because he wasn't a highly touted recruit and stayed out of trouble.

It's not about stats and I certainly don't expect Troy to ever reach what Vic did. I do think Troy can be All-B1G if he tightens up his game a bit.

Troy is in the infancy of his career, he makes mistakes like most do who are not ready made products. Don't write off a kid so early in his career just because of these mistakes. I don't care if he was highly ranked, those mean nothing to me once the kid is on campus.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,959]

Troy is more bouncy than Vic IMO. Due to his length, his POTENTIAL ceiling is higher than Vic's.

Vic had a grit, win at all cost personality that Troy lacks. Vic played hard on both ends. Vic was used to being a Role player due to his HS situation. That helped him mature and be a part of a team. I actually had wished Vic would have been more aggressive/selfish his Junior season on the offensive end.

Anyway, you can't teach desire/heart/competitiveness and Vic had that in spades but as far as raw talent potential, Troy arguably has more.

[Basketball4iU 2,006]

Vic made a lot of selfish, out of control plays his sophomore year due to being aggressive and fixed that to an extent his junior year. He's a recent example so why is it not apt when discussing a player who does the same thing? Not saying they're the same player but it's an example of someone under Crean fixing the issue we have with a player.

Vic was smart enough to understand he was out of control and needed to change..others not so much

[Dunn Woods 92]

if Troy really roomed with Luke then that's a horrible pairing

 

if you are going to take risks by bringing in bad kids why not group them together? I guess maybe the potential for bad stuff happening increases there but at the same time at least they aren't negatively impacting the lives of others as much

 

Troy and Stan totally should have roomed together. My heart aches for what Luke Fischer had to put up with if the report they roomed together is correct. My goodness

 

Sampson would love these two. I really thought we were past the days where our basketball team was smoking more weed than my circle of friends

[KingPG21 6,583]

if Troy really roomed with Luke then that's a horrible pairing

 

if you are going to take risks by bringing in bad kids why not group them together? I guess maybe the potential for bad stuff happening increases there but at the same time at least they aren't negatively impacting the lives of others as much

 

Troy and Stan totally should have roomed together. My heart aches for what Luke Fischer had to put up with if the report they roomed together is correct. My goodness

 

Sampson would love these two. I really thought we were past the days where our basketball team was smoking more weed than my circle of friends

Explain how they're bad kids? Only thing you've ever brought up is smoking weed. 

[HoosierDribbler 464]

I don't think these are bad young men. I can't help but wonder if there is a difference in the players who spend their HS senior yrs at home and those who move away from home to play at prep schools for that senior year. I know my senior year was very important to me in growing up before heading off to college. My parents continued to guide and support me during that year. Even then, when I went away from home for my freshman year in college I was a bit of a wild one. I want to believe these young men will make the necessary changes to grow up and do what is necessary to be great teammates and representatives of IU.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Explain how they're bad kids? Only thing you've ever brought up is smoking weed. 

I don't think they're bad kids. But, I do think Troy from Hampton and Luke from Germantown is a pretty surprising pairing. They both come from wildly different cultures and areas and that often causes conflicts between roommates anyway. That's why they group people geographically a lot in the dorms.

[OliviaPope40 6,445]

I wish the comparisons between Vic and any other IU player would stop, please. Vic is totally unique.

Or like doing comparisons between Cody and any other IU player because whoever it is doesn't even come close.

[323SGrant 1,176]

I don't think these guys are bad kids either. Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes and move on to bigger and better things. When I was at IU I made mistakes and still do, but I try to learn from them. I was not under the microscope like these kids are by playing a major sport at a well known University.

[MikeRoberts 6,920]

I think it is really hard to judge if someone is playing with heart or not. It's like the classic Knight press conference about getting your game face on. What does playing with heart even mean and how do you as an outside observer know if someone is playing with it?

Being selfish or making mistakes says nothing about playing with heart. A recent player who made a lot of selfish plays that led to mistakes was Victor Oladipo as a sophomore. He took at least one ill advised jumper per game and had multiple costly turnovers that are very similar to what Troy does. Anyone else remember Victor nearly losing the Kentucky game for us on the 2nd to last possession of the game? He wanted to be the hero and tried to spin through 3 defenders in the lane.

Troy may or may not improve as his career goes on. I think he improved significantly towards the end of last year and his baseline cuts have been next level this year. He needs to harness that and learn his role as a finisher. It is foolish to write him off.

that second to last play against UK was a set play that Crean drew up for Victor... Not sure how you fault him for that

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

I actually think Troy has improved some.

 

He was completely lost last year-----especially on D----I remember the Bo Ryan discussion of having his offensive player go right at him.

 

He still has a long way to go----but he showed signs tonight of passing--- instead of driving to the hole every time.

[TheStillman 991]

that second to last play against UK was a set play that Crean drew up for Victor... Not sure how you fault him for that

Set play or not, in a crucial moment he was out of control and lost the ball. Something you can certainly fault him for. The dude wasn't perfect like most sophomores. Mistakes will be made.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,959]

I realize it was 'show time flashy' but the behind the back, between the legs dribble with the no look handoff was a thing of beauty. :)