(2015) C Thomas Bryant to IU

[rebelhoosier848891]

Joani, is that you?

 

No.  Dan Dakich is that you?

 

Couldn't resist Laz---you know I love you!  Someone has to counterbalance the mob mentality.

 

I can tell I will be greatly outnumbered.  :rtfm:
 

[Walking Boot of Doom]

Still feel that way??

Still feel that I want to see our players develop? Uh, yeah. Not sure what your point is here.

[schoosier]

This is what I was saying earlier...
@Justin_Albers: Having a hard time understanding comments from Thomas Bryant's mother. Syracuse hid many failed drug tests. Makes no sense. #iubb

We've hit a new low being compared with Syracuse. What's next, Kentucky? Just very sad.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

We've hit a new low being compared with Syracuse. What's next, Kentucky? Just very sad.

I didn't compare us to them. Their situation is probably much, much worse...

[shortspacequickness]

Indiana isn't "different."

[hoosierpap]

I haven't read through this thread since it's blown up today so forgive me if I'm rehashing things or, conversely, way off the current discussion. I'm going to explore Crean's problems in the broad sense (imo, of course) from the fanbase perspective and reel it back as it relates to Thomas Bryant. I hope not to derail the thread....

 

IU is a tough program for a Coach. Tougher than most. Its fanbase and alumni differ a bit from the majority of programs based on the fact that they take extreme pride in the program based on two aspects; and while winning is the most important, a moral code is nearly as important.

 

So the moral code is..

 

1)Recruit within regulations

2)Focus on academics/graduation rates

3)Sponsorship for "good kids"

 

So what does that mean towards our current situation?

 

Sampson breaks every rule in the IU moral code. The first being the real dealbreaker because it affects the number one importance in Bloomington. Crean comes in and plays on this. He preaches about "It's Indiana, culture, culture, culture." Crean doesn't go a press conference without mentioning the 19 F's. He dogs the players dismissed (somewhat unfairly, imo). He mentions what it means to represent Indiana basketball and how the previous regime did not embody that culture. He emphasizes in recruiting this and the aspect of family. Crean harps and harps on this. This becomes Crean's theme to the fanbase and recruits.

 

Fast forward 7 years and, to the fanbases eye, Crean has nearly half of a roster (6 of 13) who do not epitomize #3 on the moral code. When you combine failing to meet the moral code with not winning (#1 in the fanbases criteria) you're, well, where Crean is now if you coach at Indiana.

 

IMO, Crean set himself up. An argument can be made that if he was a lights out, sure fire, basketball savant and was winning - #1 importance would trump all the ills. But when you come in preaching as he did and the results do not support it; the blowback will be, and is currently, significant. 

 

So as it relates to Bryant... In this situation, Syracuse preaches recent basketball success/proximity while IU preaches family atmosphere(to combat distance for Mom)/tradition/grades/NBA draft. 

 

Mom knows about Syracuse's wrong doings with academics and drug tests relating to NCAA violations. She also isn't getting that pushed down her throat as being a bright spot. She has the comfort of home and familiarity in Syracuse to combat issues of the recent past with SU. Meanwhile, Crean pushes these as part of his fundamental pitch only to have headlines on ESPN and every other sports outlet refute it, currently.  

 

Do you see where the mistrust lies?

[hoosierpap]

Whoa...I seem to be way off topic to the current conversation  :D

[8bucks]

Whoa...I seem to be way off topic to the current conversation :D

No it is a natural drift. Your post was spot on the mark. Best post of the day.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

I haven't read through this thread since it's blown up today so forgive me if I'm rehashing things or, conversely, way off the current discussion. I'm going to explore Crean's problems in the broad sense (imo, of course) from the fanbase perspective and reel it back as it relates to Thomas Bryant. I hope not to derail the thread....

IU is a tough program for a Coach. Tougher than most. Its fanbase and alumni differ a bit from the majority of programs based on the fact that they take extreme pride in the program based on two aspects; and while winning is the most important, a moral code is nearly as important.

So the moral code is..

1)Recruit within regulations
2)Focus on academics/graduation rates
3)Sponsorship for "good kids"

So what does that mean towards our current situation?

Sampson breaks every rule in the IU moral code. The first being the real dealbreaker because it affects the number one importance in Bloomington. Crean comes in and plays on this. He preaches about "It's Indiana, culture, culture, culture." Crean doesn't go a press conference without mentioning the 19 F's. He dogs the players dismissed (somewhat unfairly, imo). He mentions what it means to represent Indiana basketball and how the previous regime did not embody that culture. He emphasizes in recruiting this and the aspect of family. Crean harps and harps on this. This becomes Crean's theme to the fanbase and recruits.

Fast forward 7 years and, to the fanbases eye, Crean has nearly half of a roster (6 of 13) who do not epitomize #3 on the moral code. When you combine failing to meet the moral code with not winning (#1 in the fanbases criteria) you're, well, where Crean is now if you coach at Indiana.

IMO, Crean set himself up. An argument can be made that if he was a lights out, sure fire, basketball savant and was winning - #1 importance would trump all the ills. But when you come in preaching as he did and the results do not support it; the blowback will be, and is currently, significant.

So as it relates to Bryant... In this situation, Syracuse preaches recent basketball success/proximity while IU preaches family atmosphere(to combat distance for Mom)/tradition/grades/NBA draft.

Mom knows about Syracuse's wrong doings with academics and drug tests relating to NCAA violations. She also isn't getting that pushed down her throat as being a bright spot. She has the comfort of home and familiarity in Syracuse to combat issues of the recent past with SU. Meanwhile, Crean pushes these as part of his fundamental pitch only to have headlines on ESPN and every other sports outlet refute it, currently.

Do you see where the mistrust lies?

Diagnosis of Crean I agree with. Your explanation of Mrs. Bryant makes sense, but then that means her issue is with trust, not that we've had failed drug tests. Which doesn't exactly align with her words, but your explanation is logical.

[hoosierpap]

Diagnosis of Crean I agree with. Your explanation of Mrs. Bryant makes sense, but then that means her issue is with trust, not that we've had failed drug tests. Which doesn't exactly align with her words, but your explanation is logical.

I don't even know exactly what she said to be honest and I certainly don't know her. I suppose I'm making assumptions on a mothers comfortability and trust relating to being 600 miles closer to home.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

I don't even know exactly what she said to be honest and I certainly don't know her. I suppose I'm making assumptions on a mothers comfortability and trust relating to being 600 miles closer to home.

what you said makes sense. Her words just don't align with what is going on at Cuse. You still think we have any shot at this kid?

[hoosierpap]

what you said makes sense. Her words just don't align with what is going on at Cuse. You still think we have any shot at this kid?

Maybe a shot, but an incredibly long one. I think the key is understanding the dynamics between Thomas and his Mom because one seems in, one seems out.

[Walking Boot of Doom]

Maybe a shot, but an incredibly long one. I think the key is understanding the dynamics between Thomas and his Mom because one seems in, one seems out.

Are you saying that Bryant would pick us over Cuse, but mom won't get behind it?

[Ranger78]

Yep... I would understand her statements about IU, but the other school is Syracuse for Christ sakes.

I guess Syracuse was forthright during their visit about the cheating and other issues....going on at Syracuse.

Wow ... I'm confused.


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[hoosierpap]

Are you saying that Bryant would pick us over Cuse, but mom won't get behind it?

I'm saying he's open to IU. I'm not sure Mom is anymore.

[WayneFleekHoosier]

She said the visit was under "false pretenses". That is very harsh towards IU. I actually like her comments and want him even more based on her remarks.

She also punked UK and said that is not the place for TB. She said he doesn't need to "worry what platoon he is playing on".

It lead to a major UK fan backlash. People tweeting they don't want a "4-star" anyway. He won't be going to UK, so there's that.

[OliviaPope40]

His mom needs to look at this t-shirt.

[Ranger78]

Lol - well does it make it okay, because she knew Syracuse was under NCAA investigations?

I'm okay with what she said, but I'm not sure why Syracuse is getting a free ride.





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[seanmm1971]

If he picks IU mom will back her son, any parent would. Heaven for bid one of my boys wanted to go to Purdue I'd be sick , but still support my child.

[HoosierAloha]

Pap, I have been thinking on this the last several weeks since things settled down "a bit" from the incident on Halloween.  I think you summed up how I feel about the current regime at IU.  Of course, everyone wants to win, everyone wants to see a product on the court that competes and wins at a high level.

 

I feel what has turned me off is these kids just don't seem to get it.  When the person in charge isn't getting his message across something has to change.  I was that young Hoosier growing up idolizing Cheaney, Bailey, Henderson, etc. I felt Hulls, Zeller, Oladipo, Watford, had brought that culture back to IU.

 

With "the movement" seems to have come a sense of entitlement.  Coach had harped for so long that the kids came in hungry without a sense of entitlement.  That has been reversed with the last couple of recruiting classes.  I believe Yogi let it out that he was guaranteed a starting spot if he were to come to IU.  What happened to earning everything you achieved?  I feel like coach is fighting so much more stuff behind the scenes and some of that is internal.  I believe he trusts his players and his system to a fault.

 

What changes to see better results?  Are we at the point that he needs to go for us to progress from a "rebuild" to a contender?  Is he capable of rebounding and being the man that takes the program to the next level?

 

A few sweet sixteens, a B1G title, perfect APR, and lottery picks are great for the rebuild.  He needs to cleanup the act and take care of business, this is Indiana.